Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

[AbeVigodaLive]

Obviously an elite front office should be the goal my point was someone that is reasonably competent should be able to do more than what Kahn did with a bunch of lottery picks and Al Jefferson Love and Pek stashed over in Europe. There is a reason why people including myself were almost giddy at one point with the Bazz and Dieng picks. Lol

Cam laid out in an earlier post how those picks can have value earlier than just selecting them when they come as well as making this roster and job more enticing to a possible elite type front office guy. It harkens back to how messed up it was that we ended up with Kahn instead of someone else for that job a few years ago. That's on Glen Taylor and I think it's also fair to say there was at least some small element of bad luck too. Meanwhile Dennis Lindsey kept building and building and now has a roster some people think is a contender. I'm not going that far honestly and the Jazz have t exactly nailed everything (probably have been a better mixed bag than the Grizz did for years) but sigh it was played out better than us no doubt.

Interestingly... the Jazz rebuilt TWICE since 2011... with only one lousy season in the mix (57 losses).

The Celtics rebuilt TWICE since 2008... with only one lousy season in the mix (57 losses).

Meanwhile, we're looking at a Wolves re-re-re-re-rebuild... with only one good/decent season in the mix (47 wins) since 2005.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

4 1st round picks? What the hell is thibs waiting for? TAKE IT!!!!

[Monster]

Obviously an elite front office should be the goal my point was someone that is reasonably competent should be able to do more than what Kahn did with a bunch of lottery picks and Al Jefferson Love and Pek stashed over in Europe. There is a reason why people including myself were almost giddy at one point with the Bazz and Dieng picks. Lol

Cam laid out in an earlier post how those picks can have value earlier than just selecting them when they come as well as making this roster and job more enticing to a possible elite type front office guy. It harkens back to how messed up it was that we ended up with Kahn instead of someone else for that job a few years ago. That's on Glen Taylor and I think it's also fair to say there was at least some small element of bad luck too. Meanwhile Dennis Lindsey kept building and building and now has a roster some people think is a contender. I'm not going that far honestly and the Jazz have t exactly nailed everything (probably have been a better mixed bag than the Grizz did for years) but sigh it was played out better than us no doubt.

Interestingly... the Jazz rebuilt TWICE since 2011... with only one lousy season in the mix (57 losses).

The Celtics rebuilt TWICE since 2008... with only one lousy season in the mix (57 losses).

Meanwhile, we're looking at a Wolves re-re-re-re-rebuild... with only one good/decent season in the mix (47 wins) since 2005.

Yeah And.... that season it was with this horrible Thibs guy and people making all these Timberbulls jokes. Obviously there is plenty of historical evidence as you donwell to point out to not have faith in this franchise.

[Monster]

Something that hasn't been discussed really is...how much does making the Rockets a super team in the west the next couple years affect how you look at the deal with the Rockets? I think it does have to be a bit of a negative of the deal.

[Coolbreeze44]

Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Kinda losing focus here.

He's leaving, and this is the best deal they're going get, unless MIA gives up (around) the same picks with better players. But there's really no one else besides HOU and MIA.

He can't walk for nothing. He just can't. If the Wolves eff this up, it will be way worse than the Gaborik eff up, or the Santana eff up, or the Carew eff up.

I'm with you, Jason, in not wanting to just let Butler walk. And I agree that so far it looks like the only two interested suitors are Houston and Miami. But I still think there's an opportunity to leverage Houston's offer into a better deal with Miami and possibly spark a better offer from some other team like Philadelphia, Boston or Washington.

Q did a good job of exposing the minimal player value of picks in the 20s. But the other problem with the Houston deal is the long 7-year time horizon over which that limited value would be realized. That time horizon extends beyond the KAT contract and any chance of getting a lottery pick would be at that tail end. Boston and Philadelphia have much better draft assets to offer and they can also offer young talent (Brown, Saric) who are already much better than any player we're likely to get with picks in the 20s.

Miami's Richardson is MUCH better than any player we're likely to get with all 4 picks in the 20s and we'd have him right away to pair and develop with KAT and Okogie. If we could also get Adebayo and Miami's 2019 first round pick, we'd have a far superior deal to the one Houston is offering. In fact, I'd consider Richardson, Olynyk and Miami's 1st a better deal than the one Houston is offering. I'd also prefer dealing Butler and Gorgui for Richardson, Whiteside and Miami's pick. I know others will disagree with my valuation of those possible Miami deals compared to the Houston offer, but I think it's imperative to get either a proven young player with lots of upside or likely lottery picks. And it's imperative to get those assets within a timeframe that meshes with KAT's age and contract.

For the record, I would love JB/JP to MIA for JR/KO/3 1sts/3 swaps/3 2nds. The Wolves get better players and JimmyBricks is in the East. And HOU would then be my second choice.

Has PHI, BOS, WAS made any offers, much less a good one? Can you go from zero to 4 picks that quick? Are these franchises or Alfo Romeros?

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

4 1st round picks? What the hell is thibs waiting for? TAKE IT!!!!

FBI special agent Peter Burke is right, accept that Taylor has taken this decision away from him because he was dragging his feet. Wait, shouldn't an FBI special agent know that?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

Still a pipe dream to me... and not an imminent one.

Do you trust the current regime to make SEVERAL savvy decisions to maximize those picks?

All I've heard thus far is using a pick to unload a bad contract. Who does that help beyond Glen Taylor? What makes us think the team is suddenly going to get wise about filling that salary slot?

I know this comes across as pretty pessimistic... but it's not like there isn't precedent here.



The only thing that would change my mind is if the Wolves brought in an entirely different regime. And it can't be any retreads... only young, passionate people looking to re-create the wheel...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Something that hasn't been discussed really is...how much does making the Rockets a super team in the west the next couple years affect how you look at the deal with the Rockets? I think it does have to be a bit of a negative of the deal.

A bit of negative, but to me they were going to be a top 2 or 3 team anyway so it's not the same as trading him to, say, the Clippers or Dallas.

[Coolbreeze44]

Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

Still a pipe dream to me... and not an imminent one.

Do you trust the current regime to make SEVERAL savvy decisions to maximize those picks?

All I've heard thus far is using a pick to unload a bad contract. Who does that help beyond Glen Taylor? What makes us think the team is suddenly going to get wise about filling that salary slot?

I know this comes across as pretty pessimistic... but it's not like there isn't precedent here.



The only thing that would change my mind is if the Wolves brought in an entirely different regime. And it can't be any retreads... only young, passionate people looking to re-create the wheel..The only thing that would change my mind is if the Wolves brought in an entirely different regime. And it can't be any retreads... only young, passionate people looking to re-create the wheel...

Oh yeah, none of this makes sense if the current regime is retained. Your point is completely understood.