Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I have to admit I'm enjoying the heck out of how these playoffs are developing, even though I haven't watched a minute of action. Specifically,

1) Both LA teams being on the brink of elimination is a delightful and unexpected development.

2) Minnesota villain Jimmy Butler completely stinking up the court in a blowout series

3) Thibs proving once again that he is a terrific coach during the season, but a terrible playoff coach. He's always had a reputation for grinding his team down with in-season full court practices (when other teams are resting or having just video sessions and shootarounds between games), and his teams always seem tired and uncompetitive in the post-season.

What would make this post-season even better would be someone knocking off the superteam Nets, but I don't see that happening.

The team won 7 of its final 10 games. Did they just suddenly get tired in game #73? How much is Thibs to blame for the best player shooting 29.8% in the series?

As for Thibs teams flaming out in the postseason... maybe, but not the "always" hyperbole you use here. If we look at where they were vs. expectations... Can we point to any season where his team was better than the opposition and lost?

Obviously, 2012... when Rose was injured in the game 1 win and Noah was injured in game 3.
2014 and 2021? Both teams were the #4 seeds... but do we judge them vs. regular season overachieving... or losing to more talented teams in the postseason? I guess it's fair to do a bit of both... but I don't know (m)any who would claim either Thibs-coached team had the better talent.

Along the way, his teams made the ECF once and 2nd rd. multiple times... even without the team's best player playing some of those seasons.

So is it "good?" No. But I wouldn't classify it as "terrible" either.

Only 3 players on the Knicks this season averaged over 30mpg.

Yeah, I've never thought that the number of minutes Thibs plays his starters is a problem, and neither do his players. What some of his players have grumbled about though is his in-season grueling practices which take a toll over time. Thibs is a mystery to me. He does seem to make his teams better during the regular season, but his playoff record is difficult to defend. I also found it quite odd that he inserted Gibson and Rose (two guys I like a lot by the way) into the starting lineup in the playoffs, when they had been bench players all year. Why?

I also take issue with the prevailing opinion here that the Wolves' roster is more talented than the Knicks' roster, because as we often do here, that conclusion seems to ignore the defensive side of the ball. I agree that you can make an argument that the Wolves are more talented offensively than the Knicks, but the gap of defensive talent on the two rosters makes that offensive difference largely irrelevant. Some will say offense is about talent and defense is about effort, but I don't see it that way. Take Beasley for instance. His defensive "effort" can't be denied. But his overall defense is awful because he just isn't talented on that side of the ball. He doesn't get it. DLO fails on defense also primarily because of lack of talent, although his effort is questionable at times too. Nope, the Knicks seem to me to be the far more talented team. It's a real stretch to say a 23-win team is more talented than a 41-win team.

Anyway, Thibs deserves credit for the terrific improvement of the Knicks in the regular season. But I also think he deserves a lot of blame for their dreadful postseason performance.

Again... how much blame does the coach get... vs. the All NBA player on that team that just shot 29.8% for the series? Remember, Randle was the Knicks leading scorer by 6.5 ppg. Leading rebounder by 3.8 per game. And leading assist guy by 1.8 per game.

Look at Randle's shooting in the series:

6 - 23 fg
5 - 16
2 - 15
7 - 19
8 - 21

He also had 23 TOs to 20 assists. He was gawd-awful in a historically gawd-awful way. And yet... here we are... blaming his coach.

FNG wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I have to admit I'm enjoying the heck out of how these playoffs are developing, even though I haven't watched a minute of action. Specifically,

1) Both LA teams being on the brink of elimination is a delightful and unexpected development.

2) Minnesota villain Jimmy Butler completely stinking up the court in a blowout series

3) Thibs proving once again that he is a terrific coach during the season, but a terrible playoff coach. He's always had a reputation for grinding his team down with in-season full court practices (when other teams are resting or having just video sessions and shootarounds between games), and his teams always seem tired and uncompetitive in the post-season.

What would make this post-season even better would be someone knocking off the superteam Nets, but I don't see that happening.

The team won 7 of its final 10 games. Did they just suddenly get tired in game #73? How much is Thibs to blame for the best player shooting 29.8% in the series?

As for Thibs teams flaming out in the postseason... maybe, but not the "always" hyperbole you use here. If we look at where they were vs. expectations... Can we point to any season where his team was better than the opposition and lost?

Obviously, 2012... when Rose was injured in the game 1 win and Noah was injured in game 3.
2014 and 2021? Both teams were the #4 seeds... but do we judge them vs. regular season overachieving... or losing to more talented teams in the postseason? I guess it's fair to do a bit of both... but I don't know (m)any who would claim either Thibs-coached team had the better talent.

Along the way, his teams made the ECF once and 2nd rd. multiple times... even without the team's best player playing some of those seasons.

So is it "good?" No. But I wouldn't classify it as "terrible" either.

Only 3 players on the Knicks this season averaged over 30mpg.

Yeah, I've never thought that the number of minutes Thibs plays his starters is a problem, and neither do his players. What some of his players have grumbled about though is his in-season grueling practices which take a toll over time. Thibs is a mystery to me. He does seem to make his teams better during the regular season, but his playoff record is difficult to defend. I also found it quite odd that he inserted Gibson and Rose (two guys I like a lot by the way) into the starting lineup in the playoffs, when they had been bench players all year. Why?

I also take issue with the prevailing opinion here that the Wolves' roster is more talented than the Knicks' roster, because as we often do here, that conclusion seems to ignore the defensive side of the ball. I agree that you can make an argument that the Wolves are more talented offensively than the Knicks, but the gap of defensive talent on the two rosters makes that offensive difference largely irrelevant. Some will say offense is about talent and defense is about effort, but I don't see it that way. Take Beasley for instance. His defensive "effort" can't be denied. But his overall defense is awful because he just isn't talented on that side of the ball. He doesn't get it. DLO fails on defense also primarily because of lack of talent, although his effort is questionable at times too. Nope, the Knicks seem to me to be the far more talented team. It's a real stretch to say a 23-win team is more talented than a 41-win team.

Anyway, Thibs deserves credit for the terrific improvement of the Knicks in the regular season. But I also think he deserves a lot of blame for their dreadful postseason performance.

Again... how much blame does the coach get... vs. the All NBA player on that team that just shot 29.8% for the series? Remember, Randle was the Knicks leading scorer by 6.5 ppg. Leading rebounder by 3.8 per game. And leading assist guy by 1.8 per game.

Look at Randle's shooting in the series:

6 - 23 fg
5 - 16
2 - 15
7 - 19
8 - 21

He also had 23 TOs to 20 assists. He was gawd-awful in a historically gawd-awful way. And yet... here we are... blaming his coach.

It's a fair question. Many would agree that the emergence of Randle was the main reason for the Knicks' success this year, and many have credited Thibs with making Randle better. But can you have it both ways? Can Thibs be responsible for Randle's regular season success but blameless for his playoff failure? I don't think so. In fact, I would suggest that Thibs' bizarre lineup shift in game 3 might have had a lot to do with Randle's futility in that key game. NBA players thrive on rhythm and regularity. We'll never know the impact suddenly starting 2 guys who hadn't started all year had on Randle, but it certainly was an unusual move and might have contributed to Randle's failure. I guess I'll never understand why Thibs did this, but I wasn't surprised when they dropped the final three games with the new lineup. I think he panicked and moved away from guys who had done it all year for him in favor of "his guys".

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I have to admit I'm enjoying the heck out of how these playoffs are developing, even though I haven't watched a minute of action. Specifically,

1) Both LA teams being on the brink of elimination is a delightful and unexpected development.

2) Minnesota villain Jimmy Butler completely stinking up the court in a blowout series

3) Thibs proving once again that he is a terrific coach during the season, but a terrible playoff coach. He's always had a reputation for grinding his team down with in-season full court practices (when other teams are resting or having just video sessions and shootarounds between games), and his teams always seem tired and uncompetitive in the post-season.

What would make this post-season even better would be someone knocking off the superteam Nets, but I don't see that happening.

The team won 7 of its final 10 games. Did they just suddenly get tired in game #73? How much is Thibs to blame for the best player shooting 29.8% in the series?

As for Thibs teams flaming out in the postseason... maybe, but not the "always" hyperbole you use here. If we look at where they were vs. expectations... Can we point to any season where his team was better than the opposition and lost?

Obviously, 2012... when Rose was injured in the game 1 win and Noah was injured in game 3.
2014 and 2021? Both teams were the #4 seeds... but do we judge them vs. regular season overachieving... or losing to more talented teams in the postseason? I guess it's fair to do a bit of both... but I don't know (m)any who would claim either Thibs-coached team had the better talent.

Along the way, his teams made the ECF once and 2nd rd. multiple times... even without the team's best player playing some of those seasons.

So is it "good?" No. But I wouldn't classify it as "terrible" either.

Only 3 players on the Knicks this season averaged over 30mpg.

Yeah, I've never thought that the number of minutes Thibs plays his starters is a problem, and neither do his players. What some of his players have grumbled about though is his in-season grueling practices which take a toll over time. Thibs is a mystery to me. He does seem to make his teams better during the regular season, but his playoff record is difficult to defend. I also found it quite odd that he inserted Gibson and Rose (two guys I like a lot by the way) into the starting lineup in the playoffs, when they had been bench players all year. Why?

I also take issue with the prevailing opinion here that the Wolves' roster is more talented than the Knicks' roster, because as we often do here, that conclusion seems to ignore the defensive side of the ball. I agree that you can make an argument that the Wolves are more talented offensively than the Knicks, but the gap of defensive talent on the two rosters makes that offensive difference largely irrelevant. Some will say offense is about talent and defense is about effort, but I don't see it that way. Take Beasley for instance. His defensive "effort" can't be denied. But his overall defense is awful because he just isn't talented on that side of the ball. He doesn't get it. DLO fails on defense also primarily because of lack of talent, although his effort is questionable at times too. Nope, the Knicks seem to me to be the far more talented team. It's a real stretch to say a 23-win team is more talented than a 41-win team.

Anyway, Thibs deserves credit for the terrific improvement of the Knicks in the regular season. But I also think he deserves a lot of blame for their dreadful postseason performance.

Again... how much blame does the coach get... vs. the All NBA player on that team that just shot 29.8% for the series? Remember, Randle was the Knicks leading scorer by 6.5 ppg. Leading rebounder by 3.8 per game. And leading assist guy by 1.8 per game.

Look at Randle's shooting in the series:

6 - 23 fg
5 - 16
2 - 15
7 - 19
8 - 21

He also had 23 TOs to 20 assists. He was gawd-awful in a historically gawd-awful way. And yet... here we are... blaming his coach.

It's a fair question. Many would agree that the emergence of Randle was the main reason for the Knicks' success this year, and many have credited Thibs with making Randle better. But can you have it both ways? Can Thibs be responsible for Randle's regular season success but blameless for his playoff failure? I don't think so. In fact, I would suggest that Thibs' bizarre lineup shift in game 3 might have had a lot to do with Randle's futility in that key game. NBA players thrive on rhythm and regularity. We'll never know the impact suddenly starting 2 guys who hadn't started all year had on Randle, but it certainly was an unusual move and might have contributed to Randle's failure. I guess I'll never understand why Thibs did this, but I wasn't surprised when they dropped the final three games with the new lineup. I think he panicked and moved away from guys who had done it all year for him in favor of "his guys".

Idk if Thibs reverted back but it was widely reported that he was not doing the grueling practices in MN when he was here.

I think starting Rose makes sense he was going bonkers in this series. Just burying Payton on the bench was a bit puzzling. RJ Barrett struggled shooting the ball in this series. I wonder I Noel was dealing with some sort of injury. Maybe starting Taj allowed a better bench unit with Noel at C and Toppin playing with him? I think missing Mitchell Robinson was a significant loss for the Knicks and possibly even more so since they played Capela. Taj and Noel are both undersized compared to him.

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I have to admit I'm enjoying the heck out of how these playoffs are developing, even though I haven't watched a minute of action. Specifically,

1) Both LA teams being on the brink of elimination is a delightful and unexpected development.

2) Minnesota villain Jimmy Butler completely stinking up the court in a blowout series

3) Thibs proving once again that he is a terrific coach during the season, but a terrible playoff coach. He's always had a reputation for grinding his team down with in-season full court practices (when other teams are resting or having just video sessions and shootarounds between games), and his teams always seem tired and uncompetitive in the post-season.

What would make this post-season even better would be someone knocking off the superteam Nets, but I don't see that happening.

The team won 7 of its final 10 games. Did they just suddenly get tired in game #73? How much is Thibs to blame for the best player shooting 29.8% in the series?

As for Thibs teams flaming out in the postseason... maybe, but not the "always" hyperbole you use here. If we look at where they were vs. expectations... Can we point to any season where his team was better than the opposition and lost?

Obviously, 2012... when Rose was injured in the game 1 win and Noah was injured in game 3.
2014 and 2021? Both teams were the #4 seeds... but do we judge them vs. regular season overachieving... or losing to more talented teams in the postseason? I guess it's fair to do a bit of both... but I don't know (m)any who would claim either Thibs-coached team had the better talent.

Along the way, his teams made the ECF once and 2nd rd. multiple times... even without the team's best player playing some of those seasons.

So is it "good?" No. But I wouldn't classify it as "terrible" either.

Only 3 players on the Knicks this season averaged over 30mpg.

Yeah, I've never thought that the number of minutes Thibs plays his starters is a problem, and neither do his players. What some of his players have grumbled about though is his in-season grueling practices which take a toll over time. Thibs is a mystery to me. He does seem to make his teams better during the regular season, but his playoff record is difficult to defend. I also found it quite odd that he inserted Gibson and Rose (two guys I like a lot by the way) into the starting lineup in the playoffs, when they had been bench players all year. Why?

I also take issue with the prevailing opinion here that the Wolves' roster is more talented than the Knicks' roster, because as we often do here, that conclusion seems to ignore the defensive side of the ball. I agree that you can make an argument that the Wolves are more talented offensively than the Knicks, but the gap of defensive talent on the two rosters makes that offensive difference largely irrelevant. Some will say offense is about talent and defense is about effort, but I don't see it that way. Take Beasley for instance. His defensive "effort" can't be denied. But his overall defense is awful because he just isn't talented on that side of the ball. He doesn't get it. DLO fails on defense also primarily because of lack of talent, although his effort is questionable at times too. Nope, the Knicks seem to me to be the far more talented team. It's a real stretch to say a 23-win team is more talented than a 41-win team.

Anyway, Thibs deserves credit for the terrific improvement of the Knicks in the regular season. But I also think he deserves a lot of blame for their dreadful postseason performance.

Again... how much blame does the coach get... vs. the All NBA player on that team that just shot 29.8% for the series? Remember, Randle was the Knicks leading scorer by 6.5 ppg. Leading rebounder by 3.8 per game. And leading assist guy by 1.8 per game.

Look at Randle's shooting in the series:

6 - 23 fg
5 - 16
2 - 15
7 - 19
8 - 21

He also had 23 TOs to 20 assists. He was gawd-awful in a historically gawd-awful way. And yet... here we are... blaming his coach.

It's a fair question. Many would agree that the emergence of Randle was the main reason for the Knicks' success this year, and many have credited Thibs with making Randle better. But can you have it both ways? Can Thibs be responsible for Randle's regular season success but blameless for his playoff failure? I don't think so. In fact, I would suggest that Thibs' bizarre lineup shift in game 3 might have had a lot to do with Randle's futility in that key game. NBA players thrive on rhythm and regularity. We'll never know the impact suddenly starting 2 guys who hadn't started all year had on Randle, but it certainly was an unusual move and might have contributed to Randle's failure. I guess I'll never understand why Thibs did this, but I wasn't surprised when they dropped the final three games with the new lineup. I think he panicked and moved away from guys who had done it all year for him in favor of "his guys".

Idk if Thibs reverted back but it was widely reported that he was not doing the grueling practices in MN when he was here.

I think starting Rose makes sense he was going bonkers in this series. Just burying Payton on the bench was a bit puzzling. RJ Barrett struggled shooting the ball in this series. I wonder I Noel was dealing with some sort of injury. Maybe starting Taj allowed a better bench unit with Noel at C and Toppin playing with him? I think missing Mitchell Robinson was a significant loss for the Knicks and possibly even more so since they played Capela. Taj and Noel are both undersized compared to him.

Yeah, I think I heard some of the same reports about Thibs dialing it back a bit in practices this year. Who knows, maybe that had something to do with the success the Knicks had this season. Changing the starters in games 3-5 will never make sense to me. Seems like it sent a message to Noel and Payton that they were just fine for the regular season but not good enough for the playoffs. Puzzling. And it didn't work.

FNG wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I have to admit I'm enjoying the heck out of how these playoffs are developing, even though I haven't watched a minute of action. Specifically,

1) Both LA teams being on the brink of elimination is a delightful and unexpected development.

2) Minnesota villain Jimmy Butler completely stinking up the court in a blowout series

3) Thibs proving once again that he is a terrific coach during the season, but a terrible playoff coach. He's always had a reputation for grinding his team down with in-season full court practices (when other teams are resting or having just video sessions and shootarounds between games), and his teams always seem tired and uncompetitive in the post-season.

What would make this post-season even better would be someone knocking off the superteam Nets, but I don't see that happening.

The team won 7 of its final 10 games. Did they just suddenly get tired in game #73? How much is Thibs to blame for the best player shooting 29.8% in the series?

As for Thibs teams flaming out in the postseason... maybe, but not the "always" hyperbole you use here. If we look at where they were vs. expectations... Can we point to any season where his team was better than the opposition and lost?

Obviously, 2012... when Rose was injured in the game 1 win and Noah was injured in game 3.
2014 and 2021? Both teams were the #4 seeds... but do we judge them vs. regular season overachieving... or losing to more talented teams in the postseason? I guess it's fair to do a bit of both... but I don't know (m)any who would claim either Thibs-coached team had the better talent.

Along the way, his teams made the ECF once and 2nd rd. multiple times... even without the team's best player playing some of those seasons.

So is it "good?" No. But I wouldn't classify it as "terrible" either.

Only 3 players on the Knicks this season averaged over 30mpg.

Yeah, I've never thought that the number of minutes Thibs plays his starters is a problem, and neither do his players. What some of his players have grumbled about though is his in-season grueling practices which take a toll over time. Thibs is a mystery to me. He does seem to make his teams better during the regular season, but his playoff record is difficult to defend. I also found it quite odd that he inserted Gibson and Rose (two guys I like a lot by the way) into the starting lineup in the playoffs, when they had been bench players all year. Why?

I also take issue with the prevailing opinion here that the Wolves' roster is more talented than the Knicks' roster, because as we often do here, that conclusion seems to ignore the defensive side of the ball. I agree that you can make an argument that the Wolves are more talented offensively than the Knicks, but the gap of defensive talent on the two rosters makes that offensive difference largely irrelevant. Some will say offense is about talent and defense is about effort, but I don't see it that way. Take Beasley for instance. His defensive "effort" can't be denied. But his overall defense is awful because he just isn't talented on that side of the ball. He doesn't get it. DLO fails on defense also primarily because of lack of talent, although his effort is questionable at times too. Nope, the Knicks seem to me to be the far more talented team. It's a real stretch to say a 23-win team is more talented than a 41-win team.

Anyway, Thibs deserves credit for the terrific improvement of the Knicks in the regular season. But I also think he deserves a lot of blame for their dreadful postseason performance.

Again... how much blame does the coach get... vs. the All NBA player on that team that just shot 29.8% for the series? Remember, Randle was the Knicks leading scorer by 6.5 ppg. Leading rebounder by 3.8 per game. And leading assist guy by 1.8 per game.

Look at Randle's shooting in the series:

6 - 23 fg
5 - 16
2 - 15
7 - 19
8 - 21

He also had 23 TOs to 20 assists. He was gawd-awful in a historically gawd-awful way. And yet... here we are... blaming his coach.

It's a fair question. Many would agree that the emergence of Randle was the main reason for the Knicks' success this year, and many have credited Thibs with making Randle better. But can you have it both ways? Can Thibs be responsible for Randle's regular season success but blameless for his playoff failure? I don't think so. In fact, I would suggest that Thibs' bizarre lineup shift in game 3 might have had a lot to do with Randle's futility in that key game. NBA players thrive on rhythm and regularity. We'll never know the impact suddenly starting 2 guys who hadn't started all year had on Randle, but it certainly was an unusual move and might have contributed to Randle's failure. I guess I'll never understand why Thibs did this, but I wasn't surprised when they dropped the final three games with the new lineup. I think he panicked and moved away from guys who had done it all year for him in favor of "his guys".

kekgeek1 wrote:Terry Stotts fired by the Blazers last night. Rumors are Lillard wants Kidd as his HC and Billups is another option. So what happened to Vanderpool Dame???? You ripped the Wolves organization not hiring him but you want Jason Kidd instead of your guy? Is Vanderpool just not good then?

kekgeek1 wrote:Terry Stotts fired by the Blazers last night. Rumors are Lillard wants Kidd as his HC and Billups is another option. So what happened to Vanderpool Dame???? You ripped the Wolves organization not hiring him but you want Jason Kidd instead of your guy? Is Vanderpool just not good then?

thedoper wrote:I thought Lillard thought it was a shame that Vanterpool didn't get the Wolves job? How come he's mute on bringing him to Portland for a head coaching position? We are always going to be the laughing stock of the league till we start winning. Let's get to it already Gerson.