Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

I appreciate the flexibility and "currency" this gives us, but to Abe's point, that doesn't actually mean anything until it translates to a real player or two that can impact the game at a high level. And Houston has every incentive now to stay good and quickly rebuild with vets once this current group ages out.

I would prefer a deal that gives us some mix of young proven players (like JRich), draft assets, and salary filler on shorter deals. The Houston deal gives us no existing proven talent and there is no guarantee it ever will.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

Still a pipe dream to me... and not an imminent one.

Do you trust the current regime to make SEVERAL savvy decisions to maximize those picks?

All I've heard thus far is using a pick to unload a bad contract. Who does that help beyond Glen Taylor? What makes us think the team is suddenly going to get wise about filling that salary slot?

I know this comes across as pretty pessimistic... but it's not like there isn't precedent here.



The only thing that would change my mind is if the Wolves brought in an entirely different regime. And it can't be any retreads... only young, passionate people looking to re-create the wheel...

o

I think the prerequisite for some people for this deal is having a change of what you described making the decisions.

As for having someone "looking to re-create the wheel..." that sounds like something David Kahn was god at trying!!! Lol Don't worry I'm pretty sure I understood your sentiment (both real and tonge and cheek) I just had to make some sort of comment to acknowledge it. :)

Much like the heat, the rockets are also looking to dump a bad contract on us. Knights got another year after this at a hefty price. And as a pg, hed be 4th on the depth chart for 15 mill. Wed have dieng and knight taking up almost 30 mill per year yo average a combined 15 minutes. Sure, we can usea pick to unload knight and add other for dieng if we are lucky. Then thats chriss and 2 firsts for butler.

Now, we don't know what thes behind are, but we do know that morey isn't a total idiot.

Id guess unprotected for the first 2, and heavy protection for the last one that can get rolled into 2 seconds.

Once again: Focus

There are not 29 offers on the table. There are 2 legitimate offers. And right now, HOU's is better than MIA's.

And he CAN'T walk for nothing.

Is Thibs crazy like a fox or just crazy? If the deal gets even better than what the Rockets are proposing now you really have to wonder. But like Abe seems to be saying, we cannot underestimate the incompetence of this franchise in a big picture analysis. This is truly the strangest moment I can remember in the history of this team. Go Wolves.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Once again: Focus

There are not 29 offers on the table. There are 2 legitimate offers. And right now, HOU's is better than MIA's.

And he CAN'T walk for nothing.

Of course he can. Maybe Glen needs everyone pointing at him and laughing again to make him wonder if he needs to stick around for this.

There's no happy ending that's gonna come of this. None.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Once again: Focus

There are not 29 offers on the table. There are 2 legitimate offers. And right now, HOU's is better than MIA's.

And he CAN'T walk for nothing.

Of course he can. Maybe Glen needs everyone pointing at him and laughing again to make him wonder if he needs to stick around for this.

There's no happy ending that's gonna come of this. None.

Yes there is. It's called getting a good return for a guy who wants to leave. Remember Percy Harvin? Gary Zimmerman? Frank Viola? It happens.

So people look at this organization and think internal development of existing players like J Rich is the better option? Who have we developed well in the last decade that has people believing that's a better option? Draft picks, free agency and internal development are the 3 ways to get stars which everyone agrees we need next to Towns. We've been bad at all 3, but the Houston deal gives us 2/3rds of those chances at a star while the Miami deal gives us one. Not only does J Rich not have obvious star potential, but it would require this organization to do something it doesn't do which is develop him into a star. I just find it funny that people criticize us for being a bottom playoff team last year, but also want to trade for average proven players who don't push the needle greatly in either direction thus creating a real low ceiling for this franchise moving forward. Cap space and picks are what gives us a chance to get that star. Not Josh Richardson. Josh Richardson doesn't even guarantee being a perennial playoff team let alone a top 4 team with a chance. Being a middling borderline playoff team sounds like the worst thing this franchise could be moving forward.

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

I appreciate the flexibility and "currency" this gives us, but to Abe's point, that doesn't actually mean anything until it translates to a real player or two that can impact the game at a high level. And Houston has every incentive now to stay good and quickly rebuild with vets once this current group ages out.

I would prefer a deal that gives us some mix of young proven players (like JRich), draft assets, and salary filler on shorter deals. The Houston deal gives us no existing proven talent and there is no guarantee it ever will.

And how do they re-tool with no tradeable picks and no cap space? CP3, Jimmy and maybe even Harden are gonna age out before their contracts are up. They're gonna be paying luxury tax for their big 4 a year and possibly two after they are no longer a big 4. They just flat out wouldn't have the resources to fix that mess. And they won't care to desperately fix it either if it gets them a title in the next 2 years.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

I appreciate the flexibility and "currency" this gives us, but to Abe's point, that doesn't actually mean anything until it translates to a real player or two that can impact the game at a high level. And Houston has every incentive now to stay good and quickly rebuild with vets once this current group ages out.

I would prefer a deal that gives us some mix of young proven players (like JRich), draft assets, and salary filler on shorter deals. The Houston deal gives us no existing proven talent and there is no guarantee it ever will.

And how do they re-tool with no tradeable picks and no cap space? CP3, Jimmy and maybe even Harden are gonna age out before their contracts are up. They're gonna be paying luxury tax for their big 4 a year and possibly two after they are no longer a big 4. They just flat out wouldn't have the resources to fix that mess. And they won't care to desperately fix it either if it gets them a title in the next 2 years.

Maybe Houston is leveraging too much of its future with such a trade. But something tells me that they're not sacrificing everything just yet.

After all, something is working in Houston. They've had a winning record in 31 of the past 34 seasons.

When Morey arrived, it was a Ming + McGrady team. Then it was Aaron Brooks/Kevin Martin/Luis Scola. Then Harden + Parsons. Then Harden + Howard. Then Harden + Paul.

Meanwhile, they did this almost entirely without 1st round draft picks. Only Brooks and Capela really made much impact. And Brooks was fool's gold.

All the while, the Wolves built around multiple #1 draft picks. And we're being told that's the only route that's gonna work... only with much lower picks.

Sorry. I aint buying it. And while Houston is relevant here because they're the trading partner, we could also look at Indiana, Utah, SA, MIlwaukee, et al as other organizations that found ways to be respectable to good without relying heavily on a bevy of 1st rd picks.

Meanwhile, Orlando, MN, Sacramento, et al have been among the biggest champions of the promise of hope campaigns over the years... this side of Philadelphia.