Minnesota Sports Forum

Lip, Jimmy Butler's an MVP candidate right this second. He's not a front-runner, but he's in the mix and will receive some votes. I'm also not buying that Karl-Anthony Towns won't be an MVP player one day. The names he's alongside in history already are some of the best players of all-time with a cabinet full of MVP trophies. Consider this: Earlier this season, Towns became only the second player in NBA history to reach 3,000 career points and 2,000 rebounds before he turned 22. The only other player to achieve that was Dwight Howard.

Statistically, Towns has compiled points, rebounds, shooting percentages, 20/10 and 30/10 games at a pace that places him along such stars as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett to do such things by their 22nd birthdays.

MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP... I'm fully strapped in on the Towns bandwagon.

Camden wrote:Lip, Jimmy Butler's an MVP candidate right this second. He's not a front-runner, but he's in the mix and will receive some votes. I'm also not buying that Karl-Anthony Towns won't be an MVP player one day. The names he's alongside in history already are some of the best players of all-time with a cabinet full of MVP trophies. Consider this: Earlier this season, Towns became only the second player in NBA history to reach 3,000 career points and 2,000 rebounds before he turned 22. The only other player to achieve that was Dwight Howard.

Statistically, Towns has compiled points, rebounds, shooting percentages, 20/10 and 30/10 games at a pace that places him along such stars as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett to do such things by their 22nd birthdays.

MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP... I'm fully strapped in on the Towns bandwagon.

I like your take, Cam. But I still don't see Butler at the level of the elite players who have historically led their teams to NBA championships -- Curry, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. I think Harden's at that level, but not Jimmy. Nevertheless, Jimmy is clearly a terrific player and perennial Allstar. With the right players around him and a top notch head coach, he's definitely good enough to be part of a championship team here in MN. I hope you turn out to be right about Towns becoming a MVP caliber player. You make a good case for concluding that he will.

We're going on 11 years without a big man winning MVP. (Dirk Nowitzki)

I don't think it's a coincidence that he's the only big man that's won the award since the handcheck + zone rule changes in 2005.

And, even to that point... Dirk isn't your traditional big man who needed to get the ball in the post. Dallas used him up high at the top of the key. The game has swung away from the Big Man offensively. It's indisputable. And it makes winning MVPs very hard.

Take a look at yesterday. Houston is strapped on offense with injuries. No problem. Just give it to your best player every possession. There's no resistance as you can literally give it to him 90 feet from the hoop and let him go to work. Meanwhile, KAT goes several possessions in a row without a touch because he relies on being set up by others and while being confronted by a defender (or two).

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Apparently, the Pelicans' deal to acquire Mirotic from the Bulls fell through when the Pelicans refused to agree to pick up his option. That's good news for the Wolves because he would have helped the Pelicans and put them back in contention to challenge the Wolves for playoff position.

I want that trade to go through not just for this year but I don't want them to have the opportunity to add a wing in the draft. We don't want the pelicans to have the ability to build around cousins and Davis with young talent

I hadn't thought about it from that angle. What pick were the Pelicans going to give up and to what extent was it going to be protected?

There 1st and protections weren't named because it fell through

Even if lottery protected, the Pelicans would probably lose the pick because I would think they'll end up with the 7th or 8th seed, especially after adding Mirotic. So your point still stands. I've been concerned about the Pelicans since the season started. But they're in some trouble now. Cousins will be out well into next season recovering from his torn Achilles. And Anthony Davis can't be counted on to stay healthy. Actually, Jrue Holiday has also had durability issues his entire career. If Davis stays healthy and Cousins comes back 100% then they could be a thorn on our side long term. But that team is hurting now.

What seems dumb about declining that trade because of the option is unless Mirotic gets hurt or falls off the map and basically forgets how to play basketball they could move him in the offseason and maybe even get an asset back. I think it was a pretty good trade for them remember they were getting off Asik's basically dead money in the deal also AND get a pretty good player in Mirotic. I hate trading 1st rounders but that may have been a deal that may have been smart to make.

Edit: looks like after not being able to get Monroe (Celtics signed him) the Pels went through with this deal after all.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, Jimmy Butler's an MVP candidate right this second. He's not a front-runner, but he's in the mix and will receive some votes. I'm also not buying that Karl-Anthony Towns won't be an MVP player one day. The names he's alongside in history already are some of the best players of all-time with a cabinet full of MVP trophies. Consider this: Earlier this season, Towns became only the second player in NBA history to reach 3,000 career points and 2,000 rebounds before he turned 22. The only other player to achieve that was Dwight Howard.

Statistically, Towns has compiled points, rebounds, shooting percentages, 20/10 and 30/10 games at a pace that places him along such stars as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett to do such things by their 22nd birthdays.

MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP... I'm fully strapped in on the Towns bandwagon.

I like your take, Cam. But I still don't see Butler at the level of the elite players who have historically led their teams to NBA championships -- Curry, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. I think Harden's at that level, but not Jimmy. Nevertheless, Jimmy is clearly a terrific player and perennial Allstar. With the right players around him and a top notch head coach, he's definitely good enough to be part of a championship team here in MN. I hope you turn out to be right about Towns becoming a MVP caliber player. You make a good case for concluding that he will.

Harden is one of the best offensive players in the entire league with everything he can do. There is 2 sides of the ball though and Jimmy is a much better defensive player than Harden who literally doesn't try sometimes. Sure even with that maybe Jimmy isn't at Harden's level but that often is forgotten when assessing these players.

Personally the MVP doesn't matter too much to me it's a talking point not a whole lot more. The fact that Butler is even in the conversation (and he should be in the conversation) is a testament to him and the people that have helped him get to this level.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, Jimmy Butler's an MVP candidate right this second. He's not a front-runner, but he's in the mix and will receive some votes. I'm also not buying that Karl-Anthony Towns won't be an MVP player one day. The names he's alongside in history already are some of the best players of all-time with a cabinet full of MVP trophies. Consider this: Earlier this season, Towns became only the second player in NBA history to reach 3,000 career points and 2,000 rebounds before he turned 22. The only other player to achieve that was Dwight Howard.

Statistically, Towns has compiled points, rebounds, shooting percentages, 20/10 and 30/10 games at a pace that places him along such stars as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett to do such things by their 22nd birthdays.

MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP... I'm fully strapped in on the Towns bandwagon.

I like your take, Cam. But I still don't see Butler at the level of the elite players who have historically led their teams to NBA championships -- Curry, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. I think Harden's at that level, but not Jimmy. Nevertheless, Jimmy is clearly a terrific player and perennial Allstar. With the right players around him and a top notch head coach, he's definitely good enough to be part of a championship team here in MN. I hope you turn out to be right about Towns becoming a MVP caliber player. You make a good case for concluding that he will.

Harden is one of the best offensive players in the entire league with everything he can do. There is 2 sides of the ball though and Jimmy is a much better defensive player than Harden who literally doesn't try sometimes. Sure even with that maybe Jimmy isn't at Harden's level but that often is forgotten when assessing these players.

Personally the MVP doesn't matter too much to me it's a talking point not a whole lot more. The fact that Butler is even in the conversation (and he should be in the conversation) is a testament to him and the people that have helped him get to this level.

For me it's not a matter of who is in the MVP conversation. It's just an assessment of which players are at that highest elite status on par with the superstars of the game who have historically led their teams to championships -- Jordan, Hakeem, Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, Magic, etc. I see Harden at that level. I don't see Butler at that level even after factoring in his defense. Having said that, I think Butler's a great player and I'm thrilled we have him on our team.

Agree with Abe. Really, really tough these days for a big man - even the modern day ones like KAT and AD - to win an MVP.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, Jimmy Butler's an MVP candidate right this second. He's not a front-runner, but he's in the mix and will receive some votes. I'm also not buying that Karl-Anthony Towns won't be an MVP player one day. The names he's alongside in history already are some of the best players of all-time with a cabinet full of MVP trophies. Consider this: Earlier this season, Towns became only the second player in NBA history to reach 3,000 career points and 2,000 rebounds before he turned 22. The only other player to achieve that was Dwight Howard.

Statistically, Towns has compiled points, rebounds, shooting percentages, 20/10 and 30/10 games at a pace that places him along such stars as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett to do such things by their 22nd birthdays.

MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP... I'm fully strapped in on the Towns bandwagon.

I like your take, Cam. But I still don't see Butler at the level of the elite players who have historically led their teams to NBA championships -- Curry, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. I think Harden's at that level, but not Jimmy. Nevertheless, Jimmy is clearly a terrific player and perennial Allstar. With the right players around him and a top notch head coach, he's definitely good enough to be part of a championship team here in MN. I hope you turn out to be right about Towns becoming a MVP caliber player. You make a good case for concluding that he will.

Harden is one of the best offensive players in the entire league with everything he can do. There is 2 sides of the ball though and Jimmy is a much better defensive player than Harden who literally doesn't try sometimes. Sure even with that maybe Jimmy isn't at Harden's level but that often is forgotten when assessing these players.

Personally the MVP doesn't matter too much to me it's a talking point not a whole lot more. The fact that Butler is even in the conversation (and he should be in the conversation) is a testament to him and the people that have helped him get to this level.

For me it's not a matter of who is in the MVP conversation. It's just an assessment of which players are at that highest elite status on par with the superstars of the game who have historically led their teams to championships -- Jordan, Hakeem, Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, Magic, etc. I see Harden at that level. I don't see Butler at that level even after factoring in his defense. Having said that, I think Butler's a great player and I'm thrilled we have him on our team.

We can agree Jimmy is a very good player.

I think Butler could be a franchise altering player (even if he isn't in that pantheon) though for the Wolves. Why?

He is a very good all around player.

He brings it and plays hard every night and he is actually good it's not just hustling trying hard.

He has an edge to him.

He is a guy this franchise needs where the front office and coach likes to just work their butts off and care little about the spotlight. They need someone to talk to the media and interject some entertainment into things. Towns will probably be able to do some of that but Butler seems to have gone through it all and come out as a pretty good leader super comfortable with media etc and just seems like a fun although still quirky guy to be around. He can do all this and still deliver the message Thibs will be preaching every day. That's really big.

Basically he is a really good basketball player that carries himself like a star player but seems to at this point to have some level of awareness of his place on the team and to some extent in life. Teams need guys to lead the way. Butler looks like someone that's going to be doing that for quite a while here. I think it's gonna be pretty fun.

Skipping around league pass tonight.

Belinelli would be a nice player in a Wolves uniform. Maybe bectoffseason. It's Horford and young guys tonight for the Celtics.

I watched the last couple minutes of the first half against the Nets and the Lakers had a lineup out there with no PG. Randle had 2 nice passes and the last couple possessions they straight up gave him the ball as the PG and let him initiate the offense and it worked surprisingly well.

Parker is having a nice first game back for the Bucks. He has 12 points in 10 minutes and evennhad a few possessions defending Kanter well.

It was a good night for the Wolves with the Raptors destroying the Blazers and the Thunder losing to a short handed Pels team.

Also Donovan Mitchell went for 40 and is averaging almost 20ppg as a rookie. That's an example of why you keep picks. Meanwhile the Bulls held out for a 1st round pick for Mirotic but credit the Pels held out for a 2nd coming back from the Bulls which is their own 2nd they traded to get off Quincey Pondexter who I believe was waived to make this deal happen) just a few months ago.