Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

Thanks for posting. It seems clear that Rosas recognizes this team's need for a defensive, rim-protecting, rebounding big next to KAT. I like that he understands that the big can play the C position given KAT's versatility. All the more reason I can't understand the deal for Prince, who's a poor defender and one of the worst rebounding PFs in the NBA. It reminds me of Gersson talking constantly about his vision of a fast-paced style of basketball that emphasize ball movement and then trading for DLO, who's a half-court pick-and-roll PG who tends to have sticky hands from time to time. And then there's DLO's historically poor defense. There just seems to be a disconnect between what Gersson says and what he ultimately does.

Nevertheless, Gersson's comments last night were so clear and emphatic that I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up trading for a defensive big before the start of next season. The question is who and what the Wolves will give up to get him. Trading Ricky leaves us with one less trade chip, unless Prince is still tradable under League rules this summer. Anyone know the answer to that? To get what Gersson calls "an impact defensive big," I think he'll have to trade include Beasley as part of the outgoing package. I'm not keen on that unless the big we get is really good. My bottom line is to keep KAT, Edwards and McDaniels. I'm assuming Gersson won't consider trading DLO. Ideally, I'd also like to keep Nowell, Naz Reid and Vanderbilt.

The question then is this: Who should Rosas persuade and who can he realistically get via trade for some package that includes one or more of the following: Beasley, Juancho, Culver, Layman, our 2023 1st round pick (top-10 protected) and, if permissible under League rules, Taurean Prince? We also now have three 2022 2nd round picks we could include in any deal. I think Rosas could put together a pretty attractive package with those assets. Any ideas?

Edit: Just found the answer to my question: A team can trade a player they just traded for if the transaction was a straight-up deal. However, if they wish to include that player in a package with another player or draft picks, there is a 60-day waiting period before they may do so. In other words, this Wolves will have to wait 60 days from yesterday if they want to include Prince with other assets in an outgoing trade package. I can't envision any meaningful 1 for 1 trade involving Prince. So if the Wolves trade Prince, it can't happen until late September, shortly before the start of the season. As a practical matter, I think it means the Wolves traded for Prince with the intent to keep him.

I keep scratching my head over this deal. I'm not surprised that the Wolves chose to move Ricky. I'm. Just surprised they traded for Prince. At his press conference last night, Gersson expressed a clear understanding that the Wolves need size, rebounding, rim protection and interior defense - things that Prince obviously does not provide. Even if Rosas isn't bright, he clearly has some bright people around him, including his second in command who's an MIT graduate. No doubt they've seen the data FNG has referred to regarding Prince's poor defense and rebounding. They're certainly aware of his height and weight, which are not big by PF standards. So what gives? Stated differently, why did the Wolves do this deal knowing that, under League rules, Prince would likely remain with the team? I can only come up with the following answer: They really wanted more salary space along with a quality future draft pick for Ricky and this deal was the best return they could find on both goals - i.e., $4.8M savings and a likely top half 2nd-round pick next year.

Gersson made it pretty clear in last night's press conference that he's looking to make a deal for a defensive big. The extra $4.8M and additional 2nd round pick next year can help him accomplish that objective. The extra salary space will allow the Wolves to absorb more salary in a deal without exceeding the luxury tax and that will, in turn, open up more potential deals which would otherwise be foreclosed because of salary constraints. The extra second round pick will allow the Wolves to include another sweetener in any outgoing trade package.

17 mil for a back up PG with Rubio's notable flaws was always insane. JMac isnt as good of a player, but Rubio isnt 12-15 million more valuable in a back up role. 12 mil for Prince may still be an overpay, but its moving in the right direction. Trade Juancho and Culver and we actually may be a bit closer to a serviceable NBA roster.

thedoper wrote:17 mil for a back up PG with Rubio's notable flaws was always insane. JMac isnt as good of a player, but Rubio isnt 12-15 million more valuable in a back up role. 12 mil for Prince may still be an overpay, but its moving in the right direction. Trade Juancho and Culver and we actually may be a bit closer to a serviceable NBA roster.

Not sure I'd call it insane, but definitely not smart. :). Other Rosas moves I'd label "not smart" rather than insane include signing Juancho for two guaranteed years at $7M per year, trading up for Garland without knowing for sure he'd be available and giving up our 2021 1st and 2nd round picks with only top 3 protection for Russell. I'll reserve the insane label for drafting Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry. :)

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

Thanks for posting. It seems clear that Rosas recognizes this team's need for a defensive, rim-protecting, rebounding big next to KAT. I like that he understands that the big can play the C position given KAT's versatility. All the more reason I can't understand the deal for Prince, who's a poor defender and one of the worst rebounding PFs in the NBA. It reminds me of Gersson talking constantly about his vision of a fast-paced style of basketball that emphasize ball movement and then trading for DLO, who's a half-court pick-and-roll PG who tends to have sticky hands from time to time. And then there's DLO's historically poor defense. There just seems to be a disconnect between what Gersson says and what he ultimately does.

Nevertheless, Gersson's comments last night were so clear and emphatic that I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up trading for a defensive big before the start of next season. The question is who and what the Wolves will give up to get him. Trading Ricky leaves us with one less trade chip, unless Prince is still tradable under League rules this summer. Anyone know the answer to that? To get what Gersson calls "an impact defensive big," I think he'll have to trade include Beasley as part of the outgoing package. I'm not keen on that unless the big we get is really good. My bottom line is to keep KAT, Edwards and McDaniels. I'm assuming Gersson won't consider trading DLO. Ideally, I'd also like to keep Nowell, Naz Reid and Vanderbilt.

The question then is this: Who should Rosas persuade and who can he realistically get via trade for some package that includes one or more of the following: Beasley, Juancho, Culver, Layman, our 2023 1st round pick (top-10 protected) and, if permissible under League rules, Taurean Prince? We also now have three 2022 2nd round picks we could include in any deal. I think Rosas could put together a pretty attractive package with those assets. Any ideas?

If I remember right Prince can be traded anytime by himself after the trade goes through. Otherwise it's 30 days to package him with other players.

I wonder if Rosas canvased the league and found out what was available for Rubio and made this decision that this was the best offer to allow him to make another move. 2nd round picks aren't THAT valuable but getting that Washington 2nd for Rubio could end up being a pretty solid asset. I would guess Rosas has some sort of idea of what team may want for their defensive big. Who saw Detroit wanting cap space instead of an asset for Plumlee?!? That was a shocker.

Here is a deal that I doubt will happen but maybe the Celtics would like to save some money and get a guy that's more of a PF instead of their like 5 centers. Juancho for Thompson would be a decent move. I'm not sure how good Thompson still is (turned 30 this year) but I'd guess he still has some defensive ability and rebounds at a high rate. He would give the team a guy that has some toughness and edge plus has won a championship. That wouldn't be THE move everyone is wanting but it could be pretty solid and would allow for an open roster spot (assuming they resign Vanderbilt) to add possibly the best player they can get in FA. Honesty there might be players roughly equal to Thompson available in FA but gaining a rotation big while keeping an open roster spot for another FA isn't a bad idea.

Just for fun let's say you are right and PJ Tucker will cost 5 million or less...Now the Wolves could afford that. I know people are against adding him but now the Wolves might be able to actually be a little more aggressive going after guys instead of my plan patiently awaiting whoever is left. Noel is a guy that might come here for similar money that he made last year if he though he was competing for a starting job. He is not perfect but he is a guy I would really like to sign. If Bobby Portis wants to start and prove himself MAYBE he takes less money for that opportunity. Yes I highly doubt it but that kind of deal is a heck of a lot more likely now. The Wolves have an opportunity and a little bit of money.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

Thanks for posting. It seems clear that Rosas recognizes this team's need for a defensive, rim-protecting, rebounding big next to KAT. I like that he understands that the big can play the C position given KAT's versatility. All the more reason I can't understand the deal for Prince, who's a poor defender and one of the worst rebounding PFs in the NBA. It reminds me of Gersson talking constantly about his vision of a fast-paced style of basketball that emphasize ball movement and then trading for DLO, who's a half-court pick-and-roll PG who tends to have sticky hands from time to time. And then there's DLO's historically poor defense. There just seems to be a disconnect between what Gersson says and what he ultimately does.

Nevertheless, Gersson's comments last night were so clear and emphatic that I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up trading for a defensive big before the start of next season. The question is who and what the Wolves will give up to get him. Trading Ricky leaves us with one less trade chip, unless Prince is still tradable under League rules this summer. Anyone know the answer to that? To get what Gersson calls "an impact defensive big," I think he'll have to trade include Beasley as part of the outgoing package. I'm not keen on that unless the big we get is really good. My bottom line is to keep KAT, Edwards and McDaniels. I'm assuming Gersson won't consider trading DLO. Ideally, I'd also like to keep Nowell, Naz Reid and Vanderbilt.

The question then is this: Who should Rosas persuade and who can he realistically get via trade for some package that includes one or more of the following: Beasley, Juancho, Culver, Layman, our 2023 1st round pick (top-10 protected) and, if permissible under League rules, Taurean Prince? We also now have three 2022 2nd round picks we could include in any deal. I think Rosas could put together a pretty attractive package with those assets. Any ideas?

If I remember right Prince can be traded anytime by himself after the trade goes through. Otherwise it's 30 days to package him with other players.

I wonder if Rosas canvased the league and found out what was available for Rubio and made this decision that this was the best offer to allow him to make another move. 2nd round picks aren't THAT valuable but getting that Washington 2nd for Rubio could end up being a pretty solid asset. I would guess Rosas has some sort of idea of what team may want for their defensive big. Who saw Detroit wanting cap space instead of an asset for Plumlee?!? That was a shocker.

Here is a deal that I doubt will happen but maybe the Celtics would like to save some money and get a guy that's more of a PF instead of their like 5 centers. Juancho for Thompson would be a decent move. I'm not sure how good Thompson still is (turned 30 this year) but I'd guess he still has some defensive ability and rebounds at a high rate. He would give the team a guy that has some toughness and edge plus has won a championship. That wouldn't be THE move everyone is wanting but it could be pretty solid and would allow for an open roster spot (assuming they resign Vanderbilt) to add possibly the best player they can get in FA. Honesty there might be players roughly equal to Thompson available in FA but gaining a rotation big while keeping an open roster spot for another FA isn't a bad idea.

Just for fun let's say you are right and PJ Tucker will cost 5 million or less...Now the Wolves could afford that. I know people are against adding him but now the Wolves might be able to actually be a little more aggressive going after guys instead of my plan patiently awaiting whoever is left. Noel is a guy that might come here for similar money that he made last year if he though he was competing for a starting job. He is not perfect but he is a guy I would really like to sign. If Bobby Portis wants to start and prove himself MAYBE he takes less money for that opportunity. Yes I highly doubt it but that kind of deal is a heck of a lot more likely now. The Wolves have an opportunity and a little bit of money.

Good thoughts, Monster.

Apparently, it's a 60-day waiting period before we can trade Prince in a multi-player deal. So I don't think he was acquired as a trade asset.

The Juancho for Thompson deal appeals to me, although I've never been a big Thompson fan. As you know, I have no interest in signing PJ Tucker. Noel could be a nice addition as an affordable free agent. Bobby Portis is a fan favorite in Milwaukee and he, in turn, loves it there. So I don't see him signing here. But you never know. If Gersson were to recruit him as a potential starter, that could be enough.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

Thanks for posting. It seems clear that Rosas recognizes this team's need for a defensive, rim-protecting, rebounding big next to KAT. I like that he understands that the big can play the C position given KAT's versatility. All the more reason I can't understand the deal for Prince, who's a poor defender and one of the worst rebounding PFs in the NBA. It reminds me of Gersson talking constantly about his vision of a fast-paced style of basketball that emphasize ball movement and then trading for DLO, who's a half-court pick-and-roll PG who tends to have sticky hands from time to time. And then there's DLO's historically poor defense. There just seems to be a disconnect between what Gersson says and what he ultimately does.

Nevertheless, Gersson's comments last night were so clear and emphatic that I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up trading for a defensive big before the start of next season. The question is who and what the Wolves will give up to get him. Trading Ricky leaves us with one less trade chip, unless Prince is still tradable under League rules this summer. Anyone know the answer to that? To get what Gersson calls "an impact defensive big," I think he'll have to trade include Beasley as part of the outgoing package. I'm not keen on that unless the big we get is really good. My bottom line is to keep KAT, Edwards and McDaniels. I'm assuming Gersson won't consider trading DLO. Ideally, I'd also like to keep Nowell, Naz Reid and Vanderbilt.

The question then is this: Who should Rosas persuade and who can he realistically get via trade for some package that includes one or more of the following: Beasley, Juancho, Culver, Layman, our 2023 1st round pick (top-10 protected) and, if permissible under League rules, Taurean Prince? We also now have three 2022 2nd round picks we could include in any deal. I think Rosas could put together a pretty attractive package with those assets. Any ideas?

If I remember right Prince can be traded anytime by himself after the trade goes through. Otherwise it's 30 days to package him with other players.

I wonder if Rosas canvased the league and found out what was available for Rubio and made this decision that this was the best offer to allow him to make another move. 2nd round picks aren't THAT valuable but getting that Washington 2nd for Rubio could end up being a pretty solid asset. I would guess Rosas has some sort of idea of what team may want for their defensive big. Who saw Detroit wanting cap space instead of an asset for Plumlee?!? That was a shocker.

Here is a deal that I doubt will happen but maybe the Celtics would like to save some money and get a guy that's more of a PF instead of their like 5 centers. Juancho for Thompson would be a decent move. I'm not sure how good Thompson still is (turned 30 this year) but I'd guess he still has some defensive ability and rebounds at a high rate. He would give the team a guy that has some toughness and edge plus has won a championship. That wouldn't be THE move everyone is wanting but it could be pretty solid and would allow for an open roster spot (assuming they resign Vanderbilt) to add possibly the best player they can get in FA. Honesty there might be players roughly equal to Thompson available in FA but gaining a rotation big while keeping an open roster spot for another FA isn't a bad idea.

Just for fun let's say you are right and PJ Tucker will cost 5 million or less...Now the Wolves could afford that. I know people are against adding him but now the Wolves might be able to actually be a little more aggressive going after guys instead of my plan patiently awaiting whoever is left. Noel is a guy that might come here for similar money that he made last year if he though he was competing for a starting job. He is not perfect but he is a guy I would really like to sign. If Bobby Portis wants to start and prove himself MAYBE he takes less money for that opportunity. Yes I highly doubt it but that kind of deal is a heck of a lot more likely now. The Wolves have an opportunity and a little bit of money.

Good thoughts, Monster.

Apparently, it's a 60-day waiting period before we can trade Prince in a multi-player deal. So I don't think he was acquired as a trade asset.

The Juancho for Thompson deal appeals to me, although I've never been a big Thompson fan. As you know, I have no interest in signing PJ Tucker. Noel could be a nice addition as an affordable free agent. Bobby Portis is a fan favorite in Milwaukee and he, in turn, loves it there. So I don't see him signing here. But you never know. If Gersson were to recruit him as a potential starter, that could be enough.

Thanks for the correction on it being 60 days. I think I remember that it changed but can't remember when it was.

Personally if we are going to sign someone with more than a vet min I would want to go with a bigger and younger player than Tucker. Noel seems realistic but I've wanted him for a while so I could be fooling myself.

Some other younger less proven players that might be interesting are your guy Tony Bradley and Isaiah hartenstien who opted for FA and after the Cavs drafted Mobley seems unlikely to return there. His per 36 numbers are intriguing although he fouls a lot.

Half of Boston would be willing to drive Thompson all the way here to ensure he didn't miss his flight...



[Edit: Always late to the party... Thompson already traded... to Sacramento. That's a pretty long drive.]

Bolmaro and McLaughlin have to be delighted by this move

monsterpile wrote:Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

Thanks for posting this Monster. What I heard Rosas also say was that he was open-minded on how they addressed the issue. Functionally, he wants more defense and rebounding. Positionally, he may be able to help accomplish that with either a 4 or a more traditional Center. So in other words, he may go the route of a Myles Turner if he can pull that off or he may go the route of a Kyle Anderson. Both are good defenders, but one is clearly a 5 and the other a modern-day 4. I'd put Maxi Kleber as an example of someone in between.

I'm going to hold out judgment on the Rubio trade until we see if that vaunted financial flexibility is actually put to good use to help us upgrade our defense. As Lip, FNG, and others have said, Prince is certainly not that guy.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Half of Boston would be willing to drive Thompson all the way here to ensure he didn't miss his flight...



[Edit: Always late to the party... Thompson already traded... to Sacramento. That's a pretty long drive.]

It's a trade that probably makes sense for every team. The Kings had a glut of guards and end up with a tough very big. Atlanta gets a versatile guard to go with all their perimeter players and a backup for Young. I wouldn't have guessed the Celtics would end up with the 2nd round pick.