Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Riddle me this: Wig has 20 first half points and made it look easy. We start the 3rd quarter and he is completely removed from the offense. Everything is being run through KAT, Wiggins is getting shade on the perimeter so everything gets funneled to Ricky for shots he couldn't make. It results in a terrible 3rd quarter. Why didn't we continue to run some sets through Wig?

Interesting info, Cool. Thanks.

I didn't see the game tonight. The box score tells me we lost because of a pathetic bench with Belly going 0-5 and Dunn 1-5. But your observation is troubling. It highlights a tendency I've observed repeatedly this season where Thibs changes his offensive approach in a game without regard to what has been previously working in that game. They are either predetermined formulaic changes or "gut feeling" changes. Neither makes sense to me. But maybe there's a deeper explanation.

To me we were doing the exact same thing as we were in the 1st half where Wiggins was super successful we worked inside out, letting Towns make the correct basketball play. Wiggins scored I believe 4 buckets off Towns assists in the 1st half. Also Wiggins was getting the ball and then making the correct basketball play and passed it off to a wide open ricky and ricky clanked them, Same with Belly.


Honestly I think this was the best ball movement the wolves have had all year, but players did not step up and make shots, Ricky missed a ton of open jumpers, so did Dunn, so did Belly and So did Lavine (he made some tough ones also). Like Cool mentioned in the thread Wiggins would have had like 7 assists if players hit open jumpers

In the first half they seemed to get Wig the ball earlier in the shot clock. That stopped happening in the 3rd quarter for whatever reason. Maybe Thibs wanted to get KAT going, maybe Wig wasn't getting to the open areas, or maybe the Nuggets took away what he was getting in the first half. But one thing I know for sure is Wig was made a bystander for the first half of the quarter, and then he lost his rhythm.

I think that is fair. The thing this happens with Wiggins a lot. Now the thing is Thibs doing this or is this just wiggins. That I do not have the answer to but he has had 3 coaches and this has happened a lot with happened.

I only saw the last five minutes, so not much to add here. It's continues to be frustrating...seems like we can only beat teams missing or resting their stars and Atlanta.

At least I saw the best part of the game it seems. KAT's energy was fun to watch during a very impressive 4th quarter comeback. But I hated the final play...did Thibs call that, or did Wig just decide to make a hero play on his own? I love so much about Wig, but when I see him setting up at the top of the key with the entire defense set up to stop him, I don't feel confident...it never seems to turn out well. KAT and Ricky had 17 assists during the game (certainly some of them to Wig), but Thibs puts Ricky in the corner again and limits KAT's role to setting a pick, and asks a guy that has just missed 4 free throws to win the game on his own. What?????????

I was so high on Belly coming into this year, but man has he ever stunk.

In happier news, nice efficient night for Gorgui.

longstrangetrip wrote:I only saw the last five minutes, so not much to add here. It's continues to be frustrating...seems like we can only beat teams missing or resting their stars and Atlanta.

At least I saw the best part of the game it seems. KAT's energy was fun to watch during a very impressive 4th quarter comeback. But I hated the final play...did Thibs call that, or did Wig just decide to make a hero play on his own? I love so much about Wig, but when I see him setting up at the top of the key with the entire defense set up to stop him, I don't feel confident...it never seems to turn out well. KAT and Ricky had 17 assists during the game (certainly some of them to Wig), but Thibs puts Ricky in the corner again and limits KAT's role to setting a pick, and asks a guy that has just missed 4 free throws to win the game on his own. What?????????

I was so high on Belly coming into this year, but man has he ever stunk.

In happier news, nice efficient night for Gorgui.

Wiggins was by far our best scorer tonight and was making the correct play with the ball all night. He beat Wilson chandler off the dribble and chandler recovered nicely and made a great block

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Wiggins also has the least amount of fg attempts of the big three in clutch situations

That surprises me. Mitchell and Thibs both seem to get him the ball in those situations.

That is just for this year and they are all really close, Like Wiggins has 6 attempts, Zach has like 8 and so does Towns. Not a big difference, but my main point for making the point is that people complain that we always go to Wiggins down the stretch but that is not true.

Geek - I didn't see that night's game so I can't comment on anything but the box score. But my general complaint about Wiggins isn't that we go to him down the stretch. He can score and should be looked to throughout the game, including crunch time. My complaint is giving him the ball at the top of the key at the beginning of offensive possessions down the stretch. Like LST, I cringe every time I see it because it always seems shaky given Wiggins' suspect ball-handling skills, passing and decision-making.

Exactly keek. Can't argue with the call, he got to the rack easily. Should of finished. Can't blame the coach or the call. LST, I'm sure you and other people would be complaining about a TO not being called when Zach retrieved the loose ball had it not been for JimPete saying he liked the "play on".

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Wiggins also has the least amount of fg attempts of the big three in clutch situations

That surprises me. Mitchell and Thibs both seem to get him the ball in those situations.

That is just for this year and they are all really close, Like Wiggins has 6 attempts, Zach has like 8 and so does Towns. Not a big difference, but my main point for making the point is that people complain that we always go to Wiggins down the stretch but that is not true.

Geek - I didn't see that night's game so I can't comment on anything but the box score. But my general complaint about Wiggins isn't that we go to him down the stretch. He can score and should be looked to throughout the game, including crunch time. My complaint is giving him the ball at the top of the key at the beginning of offensive possessions down the stretch. Like LST, I cringe every time I see it because it always seems shaky given Wiggins' suspect ball-handling skills, passing and decision-making.

I do think that is fair. I feel like we are broken. Like if we give the ball to ricky and they shut down the screener we are sort of screwed. Wiggins had shaky playmaking abilities. Lavine in theory would be great to go to but stats say he is bad in clutch situations. Towns settles or gets doubled in the post.

I honestly think the wolves are broken

Believe it or not, Wig looked good handling the ball tonight.

The Wolves replay is on my tv right now and because I have no life I was watching the being of the game to see how wiggins scored his first 9 pts of the game.

1st bucket: Hits a pull up jumper on a PnR
2nd bucket: Hard cut to the lane and Kat finds him from the post
3rd bucket: Wiggins to Kat in the post, Kat passes back out, Kat comes to the 3 point line, wiggins replaces Kat in the post and wiggins faces up and hits a 1 dribble pull up.
4th Bucket: Wiggins hits slot three from a feed from Kat from the post.

kekgeek1 wrote:The Wolves replay is on my tv right now and because I have no life I was watching the being of the game to see how wiggins scored his first 9 pts of the game.

1st bucket: Hits a pull up jumper on a PnR
2nd bucket: Hard cut to the lane and Kat finds him from the post
3rd bucket: Wiggins to Kat in the post, Kat passes back out, Kat comes to the 3 point line, wiggins replaces Kat in the post and wiggins faces up and hits a 1 dribble pull up.
4th Bucket: Wiggins hits slot three from a feed from Kat from the post.

Good stuff, kek. I see Wig as our best scorer, and he's also proven to be our best clutch scorer (free throws notwithstanding). But I see him as being successful generally in the flow of the offense as he was in his first nine points. For the life of me, I can't understand why Thibs wants to change things when the game is on the line by asking Wig to do something he hasn't demonstrated competence in. I can recall several times this strategy has failed in key 4th quarter possessions this season, but I honestly can't remember any meaningful times it has been successful. I think Thibs needs to be smarter when the game is on the line and put our guys in a position where they have been successful.

longstrangetrip wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The Wolves replay is on my tv right now and because I have no life I was watching the being of the game to see how wiggins scored his first 9 pts of the game.

1st bucket: Hits a pull up jumper on a PnR
2nd bucket: Hard cut to the lane and Kat finds him from the post
3rd bucket: Wiggins to Kat in the post, Kat passes back out, Kat comes to the 3 point line, wiggins replaces Kat in the post and wiggins faces up and hits a 1 dribble pull up.
4th Bucket: Wiggins hits slot three from a feed from Kat from the post.

Good stuff, kek. I see Wig as our best scorer, and he's also proven to be our best clutch scorer (free throws notwithstanding). But I see him as being successful generally in the flow of the offense as he was in his first nine points. For the life of me, I can't understand why Thibs wants to change things when the game is on the line by asking Wig to do something he hasn't demonstrated competence in. I can recall several times this strategy has failed in key 4th quarter possessions this season, but I honestly can't remember any meaningful times it has been successful. I think Thibs needs to be smarter when the game is on the line and put our guys in a position where they have been successful.

I see your point but like I said to lip, I don't know what I would want him to do, like the defense does not have to rotate at all when ricky is in a PnR late in the game and if they can stop the R man that will be shut down. Lavine hasn't proven to hit big shots on a regular bases. Towns is 1 of 10 in clutch 3's this year and if we post him up the other team can just double and make ricky beat them.

I do think to an extent thibs is trying to make wiggins into a more complete player for the future but I do think some of that we as fans use as an excuse to why we are losing to justify it.

I just think we are broken, I think wiggins is the best at the 2 but I think zach could already be a top 7 SG and he is 21. Hard to bring in free agents that would move the needle when 3 of the starting players are locked in who wants to come off the bench and come to the wolves who would make a legit impact.

2nd era of the wolves ricky is a part of late chokes and is gorgui a starter on a good team.

The wolves have really no trade assets, ricky is so weird in value, doubt we trade any other of the starters, no bench player has any value minus Dunn but not sure how big that value is. And we can't trade our 1st until draft day because of payne.