Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just can't see how Murray goes before the 5th pick without a trade. I would rather have Russel and Okafor then Murray. I think I might take Bender before them all. He has the highest upside as a 2-way player in that group.

Bleed, you are looking like you're going to bust again. We need you to step up now to avoid a bad sophomore season coming off a horrendous rookie campaign.

Hicks123 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just can't see how Murray goes before the 5th pick without a trade. I would rather have Russel and Okafor then Murray. I think I might take Bender before them all. He has the highest upside as a 2-way player in that group.

I hear this a lot on this board. Why do we feel this way? Because he is tall and fairly agile? I ask because he has played so little, I don't know if he is even a capable '1 way player' let alone a 'two-way guy'. In his 10 Euro games he shot 40% from 2 and 25% from 3, and averaged 1 rpg. He is a 100% upside guy that has shown ZERO at this point. My opinion, but if the Zinger would have failed last year, Bender would probably be looked at as an early 2nd round stash type player. His performance to date certainly warrants nothing higher. An 18 year old player with little experience that has a chance to be good or bad....that's what I see. That, to me, is not worth anything near the top half of a fairly solid draft.

People keep saying it's just Porzongas that's causing this euro-love in the draft and it's not. Saric was a lottery pick a few years ago before Porzingas. Valanciunas was a top 5 pick before Porzingas. The euro-love is there regardless of Porzingas because it's always been there when the right prospects come along. An agile 7 footer with a handle is a top 5 prospect because that's crazy to be that big with a handle and real agility. Porzingas isn't that player. He was a 7'3 shooter who was also a defender coming into the draft. They're two different types of players. The love for Bender is not because of Porzingas. It's because he has an intriguing skill set for a 7 footer.

The dream draft is Denver decides there is a guy they have to have at 5 and you get the 7 and 19 and at 7 a guy drops to you that you want (depending on who you want this could happen based on some mock drafts) and then you get a 2nd guy at 19 (or even trade down and pick up various picks) and get a nice secondary guy. T Prince would be a nice player in that range (there are others worth considering) and would give us that classic combo SF this team has needed for years. Of course the Wolves could end up sticking at #5 and find a nice player buying into the 2nd round which is what I think they are probably leaning towards compared to trading down based on the feel I got from yesterday's PC. It's going to be an interesting draft which may resemble the middle of the NFL draft the way teams move around. It should be fun to watch even if the Wolves just pick 5 and end up making no other moves but I actually will be a little surprised if the Wolves don't make a move to get a 2nd rounder unless it's impossible to just buy a pick.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:


Bleed, you are looking like you're going to bust again. We need you to step up now to avoid a bad sophomore season coming off a horrendous rookie campaign.

I am looking at production for year 3. I am hoping Bender falls to us based on Celtics and Suns not wanting to wait on him. I based on the background, skills, and BBIQ I think the kid has a chance to be a stud, but has lower bust potential then you think. If he becomes a stud next to Towns we are looking at at team that could be surrounded by bums and compete for championships just based on the match problems they create.

Wolfson has a fun poll on Twitter on whether they would be happy if Murray is the pick. So far the majority are in favor.

https://twitter.com/dwolfsonkstp/status/745464343886602242

monsterpile wrote:The dream draft is Denver decides there is a guy they have to have at 5 and you get the 7 and 19 and at 7 a guy drops to you that you want (depending on who you want this could happen based on some mock drafts) and then you get a 2nd guy at 19 (or even trade down and pick up various picks) and get a nice secondary guy. T Prince would be a nice player in that range (there are others worth considering) and would give us that classic combo SF this team has needed for years. Of course the Wolves could end up sticking at #5 and find a nice player buying into the 2nd round which is what I think they are probably leaning towards compared to trading down based on the feel I got from yesterday's PC. It's going to be an interesting draft which may resemble the middle of the NFL draft the way teams move around. It should be fun to watch even if the Wolves just pick 5 and end up making no other moves but I actually will be a little surprised if the Wolves don't make a move to get a 2nd rounder unless it's impossible to just buy a pick.

Agree. Who would Denver be targeting?

monsterpile wrote:The dream draft is Denver decides there is a guy they have to have at 5 and you get the 7 and 19 and at 7 a guy drops to you that you want (depending on who you want this could happen based on some mock drafts) and then you get a 2nd guy at 19 (or even trade down and pick up various picks) and get a nice secondary guy. T Prince would be a nice player in that range (there are others worth considering) and would give us that classic combo SF this team has needed for years. Of course the Wolves could end up sticking at #5 and find a nice player buying into the 2nd round which is what I think they are probably leaning towards compared to trading down based on the feel I got from yesterday's PC. It's going to be an interesting draft which may resemble the middle of the NFL draft the way teams move around. It should be fun to watch even if the Wolves just pick 5 and end up making no other moves but I actually will be a little surprised if the Wolves don't make a move to get a 2nd rounder unless it's impossible to just buy a pick.

If we could get Bender at 7, and then Dejounte Murray at 19, that would be a tremendous take. But with the way Murray has been rising that might be a little far fetched.

khans2k5 wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just can't see how Murray goes before the 5th pick without a trade. I would rather have Russel and Okafor then Murray. I think I might take Bender before them all. He has the highest upside as a 2-way player in that group.

I hear this a lot on this board. Why do we feel this way? Because he is tall and fairly agile? I ask because he has played so little, I don't know if he is even a capable '1 way player' let alone a 'two-way guy'. In his 10 Euro games he shot 40% from 2 and 25% from 3, and averaged 1 rpg. He is a 100% upside guy that has shown ZERO at this point. My opinion, but if the Zinger would have failed last year, Bender would probably be looked at as an early 2nd round stash type player. His performance to date certainly warrants nothing higher. An 18 year old player with little experience that has a chance to be good or bad....that's what I see. That, to me, is not worth anything near the top half of a fairly solid draft.

People keep saying it's just Porzongas that's causing this euro-love in the draft and it's not. Saric was a lottery pick a few years ago before Porzingas. Valanciunas was a top 5 pick before Porzingas. The euro-love is there regardless of Porzingas because it's always been there when the right prospects come along. An agile 7 footer with a handle is a top 5 prospect because that's crazy to be that big with a handle and real agility. Porzingas isn't that player. He was a 7'3 shooter who was also a defender coming into the draft. They're two different types of players. The love for Bender is not because of Porzingas. It's because he has an intriguing skill set for a 7 footer.

That's a very good analysis. Hicks, I've been where you are because of the scarcity of relevant video on Bender. But I have totally come around on him. You point to his 25% 3-point shooting in Euroleague, but that was only 2-8 in 10 games. Subsequent to that he made over 40% of his threes in 26 games with Maccabi.

I read an article yesterday in the Boston Globe (since I really think Boston is where Bender should end up) where a veteran teammate raved about him. He said Bender couldn't get much playing time in a league full of men in their upper 20s, but said he sis things daily in practice that were jaw dropping.

The Porzingas comparison is unfortunate because they are so different in style. Porzingis is a much better leaper and has a substantially longer wingspan. But Bender is a much better passer and ball handler, and arguably moves laterally better. Comments that Kristaps was ahead of Dragan at a similar age are not supported by stats, because at age 18 their Euro stats were almost identical. Kristaps averaged 6.7 and 2.8 in 15 MPG, and hit 33% of his threes. Dragan averaged 5.4 and 2-7 in 13.5 MPG, and made 40% of his threes. Kristaps improved his stats at 19, and that is why he was deemed more NBA-ready at 19 than Dragan is at 18, but there's little if any evidence that Kristaps' ceiling is any higher than Dragan's.

Deft passing, sweet-shooting 7'1" 18-year-olds don't grow on trees, so I see little chance of him being available at 5. But if he is, Thibs has to strongly consider him as he may have the most upside in this draft.

monsterpile wrote:Wolfson has a fun poll on Twitter on whether they would be happy if Murray is the pick. So far the majority are in favor.

https://twitter.com/dwolfsonkstp/status/745464343886602242

I'm part of the 83% that said I would be happy picking Murray, but Doogie could have come up with 6-7 other options where I would have also voted yes. I think the poll would have been sizably different if the question was "is Jamal Murray the best choice the wolves can make at 5".

bleedspeed177 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:


Bleed, you are looking like you're going to bust again. We need you to step up now to avoid a bad sophomore season coming off a horrendous rookie campaign.

I am looking at production for year 3. I am hoping Bender falls to us based on Celtics and Suns not wanting to wait on him. I based on the background, skills, and BBIQ I think the kid has a chance to be a stud, but has lower bust potential then you think. If he becomes a stud next to Towns we are looking at at team that could be surrounded by bums and compete for championships just based on the match problems they create.

This