NBA Playoff Thread

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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:Crowder just committed two consecutive turnovers that led to buckets by the Nuggets. Just shows you that being an experienced veteran with playoff experience might be overrated. Give me talent and players with high basketball IQs and I don't care a lot about how many years they've been in the League, how many playoff games they've played or how many rings they have.




Crowder has a whopping 66 TOs in 82 career playoff games... has had 1 or fewer TOs in 68 out of 82 playoff games... and has never had more than 8 TOs in any playoff series.

So it's kinda ironic his entire career is being ripped for a one minute stretch where he had 2 TOs.



[Note: As for "high basketball IQ" ... sometimes it comes from playing many years in the league. It isn't always the case... but sometimes, the two are connected.]


I think with a guy like Crowder, the term "knows his role" fits best. And I do think that comes from some level of experience. He probably realized pretty early that he wasn't going to be a star, so he honed in on defense and improving his 3-point shot. PJ Tucker, Trevor Ariza, Dorian Finney-Smith, Royce O'Neal, Mikal Bridges, Robert Covington....the list goes on, but just SUPER valuable players to a team that already has a couple of high usage stars. Where these guys have succeeded is where our version of that guy - Josh Okogie - has failed, being a total non-factor from outsdie the arc despite having multiple offseasons to get better in that area.



Crowder is not a good three point shooter. It's even held him back at times in his career.

But he has been good enough to continually find himself starting on playoff teams as a tough, defensive minded stand-over there type. His past two seasons (Miami/Phoenix) have been his best seasons behind the arc. No idea if it's sustainable or not.

But even if he regresses (34.6% for his career)... him being bigger and smarter than Okogie with a much better chance of making a three pointer (27.3% for Okogie)... is HUGE.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Career 39% from the corners. Bottom line is Jae Crowder has to be accounted for beyond the arc even though it may be a bit softer coverage than some of the others. Okogie is a guy that would be actively encouraged to shoot in a playoff environment. Upgrading Okogie as our backup SF has to be on the to-do list this summer.
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BloopOracle
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by BloopOracle »

Chris Paul might actually get a ring, and it's going to be due to injuries. Poetic justice considering that's essentially what's held him back over the years.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

It's usually just the glamour markets that can pull off worst to first type scenarios. If Phoenix could win it all this year that would really be impressive, and give some hope to other non-destination cities around the league. I'd revel in a Milwaukee vs Phoenix or Utah series while the TV network execs and Stephen A Smiths of the world piss and moan.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's usually just the glamour markets that can pull off worst to first type scenarios. If Phoenix could win it all this year that would really be impressive, and give some hope to other non-destination cities around the league. I'd revel in a Milwaukee vs Phoenix or Utah series while the TV network execs and Stephen A Smiths of the world piss and moan.


To me it's more of a comparison of teams contending based on home-grown stars versus teams contending using the "super friends" approach.

The Lakers going down is certainly a win for the home-grown approach. Brooklyn and the Clippers are the only two remaining super-friends teams. Brooklyn looks to be in trouble because of injuries and the Clippers are down 2-1.

Everyone else - the Sixers, Utah, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Milwaukee - are largely made up of home grown stars. Phoenix has Chris Paul as a key component, but they don't go anywhere without Booker, Ayton, and Bridges, who are all home grown guys drafted by the Suns.

So at this point, the odds are that a build-from-within team will likely win it all, no?
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's usually just the glamour markets that can pull off worst to first type scenarios. If Phoenix could win it all this year that would really be impressive, and give some hope to other non-destination cities around the league. I'd revel in a Milwaukee vs Phoenix or Utah series while the TV network execs and Stephen A Smiths of the world piss and moan.



Is Phoenix a non-destination though?

They've at least been in the conversation for some of the big-time players. LaMarcus Aldridge strongly considered signing there before settling on the Spurs. Of all of Garnett's protests against a trade from MN... Phoenix was the one destination he'd have accepted. Steve Nash signed in Phoenix after being All NBA in Dallas. And Tom Chambers, the first unrestricted free agent in NBA history, signed there back in the late 1980s.

As for worst to first rebuilds... this isn't even the first time it's happened in Phoenix... and both involved free agents.

2005 - Suns go from 29 - 53 to 62 - 20 primarily behind signing Steve Nash in FA.

1989 - Suns go from 28 - 54 to 55 - 27 primarily behind the Kevin Johnson trade and signing Tom Chambers in free agency.
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Monster
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Monster »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's usually just the glamour markets that can pull off worst to first type scenarios. If Phoenix could win it all this year that would really be impressive, and give some hope to other non-destination cities around the league. I'd revel in a Milwaukee vs Phoenix or Utah series while the TV network execs and Stephen A Smiths of the world piss and moan.



Is Phoenix a non-destination though?

They've at least been in the conversation for some of the big-time players. LaMarcus Aldridge strongly considered signing there before settling on the Spurs. Of all of Garnett's protests against a trade from MN... Phoenix was the one destination he'd have accepted. Steve Nash signed in Phoenix after being All NBA in Dallas. And Tom Chambers, the first unrestricted free agent in NBA history, signed there back in the late 1980s.

As for worst to first rebuilds... this isn't even the first time it's happened in Phoenix... and both involved free agents.

2005 - Suns go from 29 - 53 to 62 - 20 primarily behind signing Steve Nash in FA.

1989 - Suns go from 28 - 54 to 55 - 27 primarily behind the Kevin Johnson trade and signing Tom Chambers in free agency.


Phoenix is obviously a HOT spot for FAs.

The most expensive player on the Suns roster acquired via FA is Crowder and a few vet min guys. 10 players on their roster are there because of being drafted there or a trade.

Personally I'm cheering for the Sun to get to the finals. The Suns went all in on Chris Paul. Could this be the one time something like that actually worked? Heck right now IMO it's probably already worked. They are in the WCF even if they did get fortunate along the way with other teams injuries. That's why sometimes going for it makes sense. You never know.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Q12543 wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's usually just the glamour markets that can pull off worst to first type scenarios. If Phoenix could win it all this year that would really be impressive, and give some hope to other non-destination cities around the league. I'd revel in a Milwaukee vs Phoenix or Utah series while the TV network execs and Stephen A Smiths of the world piss and moan.


To me it's more of a comparison of teams contending based on home-grown stars versus teams contending using the "super friends" approach.

The Lakers going down is certainly a win for the home-grown approach. Brooklyn and the Clippers are the only two remaining super-friends teams. Brooklyn looks to be in trouble because of injuries and the Clippers are down 2-1.

Everyone else - the Sixers, Utah, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Milwaukee - are largely made up of home grown stars. Phoenix has Chris Paul as a key component, but they don't go anywhere without Booker, Ayton, and Bridges, who are all home grown guys drafted by the Suns.

So at this point, the odds are that a build-from-within team will likely win it all, no?

Yeah, I think the odds are good a non-Super Friends team will win. Which is very cool. But my main point was you usually can't make that kind of a run over night. I'm trying to think of someone else. Maybe Portland back in '77? They finished last in the division in '76.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

True, Phoenix has made a hell of a turnaround.

The Boston Celtics made an epic turnaround - far more impressive than Phoenix - from winning 32 and then 29 games in '78 and '79, then winning 61 games in '80 for a 32-game turnaround in one season. Welcome to the NBA Larry Bird!

And also Phoenix wasn't quite overnight. Their turnaround seems a bit more dramatic than it really was. They ended last year 5 games under .500 and won 10 of their 11 last games so they were getting better before our eyes throughout last season.

Still, they got good pretty fast.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: NBA Playoff Thread

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Q12543 wrote:True, Phoenix has made a hell of a turnaround.

The Boston Celtics made an epic turnaround - far more impressive than Phoenix - from winning 32 and then 29 games in '78 and '79, then winning 61 games in '80 for a 32-game turnaround in one season. Welcome to the NBA Larry Bird!

And also Phoenix wasn't quite overnight. Their turnaround seems a bit more dramatic than it really was. They ended last year 5 games under .500 and won 10 of their 11 last games so they were getting better before our eyes throughout last season.

Still, they got good pretty fast.

I didn't realize they were that close to .500 last year, but I do remember them playing great in the bubble.
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