Minnesota Sports Forum

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Anybody else wondering why Finch has a reputation as an offensive coach? This team's offense consists of one dude dribbling precious seconds out of the clock while nobody else moves and the defense just gets set. Then that guy will either: A) drive a little bit and pass it to another guy outside the perimeter to do the same, B) drive a little bit then force up a reckless shot inside, C) hoist up a 3 off the dribble, or D) just pass it to another dude on the perimeter after dribbling in place for 4 seconds. As far as I can tell, that's our offensive playbook right now.

Largely this same group was hitting on all cylinders on offense after Finch took over last year. It has been incredible to see how its regressed since then. Multiple guys underperforming and our "big three" showing very little synergy with each other. Just been an unexpected disaster offensively. Defense has been better.

That's true that KAT, Ant, and DLO are the core of the problem on offense. They just clearly don't trust each other or play off each other at all right now. It's almost entirely "your turn, my turn" offense, which is just not going to cut it, even with the offensive talent those three have as individuals. Finch needs to get them to rediscover what they had going last year offensively ASAP, and I think that really needs to start with drilling them to get them to run some basic plays together, and then as they build up more trust, letting them improvise more. But it seems like it's all improvisation right now and no cohesion at all. It's like an improv. jazz band that doesn't play off each other at all. Need to get back to basics first so they can develop the cohesion necessary to improvise effectively.

I think you guys are missing one significant difference when comparing how well the offense flowed late last season compared to the zero flow one-on-one crap we're seeing now...roster change (thank you, Rosas). Specifically Ed Davis, Culver and Juancho are no longer with us ;) .

Seriously, Finch's reputation as a solid offensive coach is well known around the league, and we saw it at the end of last season. But a coach is only as good as his players, and while he has several players now who are talented (just look at how we handled the Lakers last week), they mostly don't fit the kind of motion offense he would prefer to run...they're iso one-on-one guys, and we have to accept that's the way the offense will look until Gupta moves some players and restructures this roster. We've heard Finch's frustration several times this season in press conferences when he laments how well his team moves the ball in practice but then reverts to solo hero ball during games. And these guys are not going to change. Finch is not the problem...this Rosas roster is.

Shot-making has been the biggest issue with the offense thus far followed by turnovers, specifically Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in that regard. This offense occasionally stalls, but for the most part I can live with the looks they're generating. They're just not making the shot to end the possession. That's the most frustrating part, in my opinion. The amount of wide open bricks this team has from game to game is maddening. That leads to the opposition being less hesitant to bring the double teams and/or pack the paint making Towns and Edwards lives more difficult. Guys just have to make shots, especially the shots they're expected to make.

No, cohesiveness is the biggest issue with the offense. There is rarely good ball movement. In fact it looks more like a bowel movement most of the time. Screens are done half-ass and the ball rarely moves from side to side. It's not only ineffective, but it isn't very aesthetic either.

Camden wrote:Shot-making has been the biggest issue with the offense thus far followed by turnovers, specifically Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in that regard. This offense occasionally stalls, but for the most part I can live with the looks they're generating. They're just not making the shot to end the possession. That's the most frustrating part, in my opinion. The amount of wide open bricks this team has from game to game is maddening. That leads to the opposition being less hesitant to bring the double teams and/or pack the paint making Towns and Edwards lives more difficult. Guys just have to make shots, especially the shots they're expected to make.

So we all know Beasley is struggling. A guy with 20 ppg potential... but he's just not shooting well.

I've been shocked at HOW bad some of the shots are. Typically, good shooters either make or miss them. But these are the best shooters in the world, they're going to be pretty damn close on wide-open shots even when they don't go in.

We've seen more-than-normal scuds from Beasley this season. Shots that have no chance to go in and scrape off the side of the rim or between the rim/backboard. Even on wide open looks. I'm sure he'll get back into the swing of things.

But when? The Wolves need him NOW.

Beasley, Prince, McLaughlin, and Prince have taken 30% of the team's 3s. All are well below their career shooting percentages - like absurdly so. Ant doesn't help with his team-leading 116 3s taken at 33%. Unfortunately, that 33% mark is in the upper half of our team!

"Unguarded shots" is one of the most subjective stats out there and subject to interpretation. All unguarded shots are not equal, and there are other factors that come into play in creating a positive shot environment. Receiving the ball at the right time and at the right height or body position is key to a high shooting percentage...shooters always talk about wanting to shoot in rhythm...and excellent ball movement along with an elite facilitator are the tools to get there. I've said it before, but while KAT is one of our top assist guys, he delivers the ball very poorly...he needs to get better with his passing. It's not just coincidental or bad luck that almost every player on our roster is shooting far below their career three-point average. Beasley has an excuse...spending the off-season in jail has clearly impacted his shooting. But the others are clearly being hampered by bad offensive flow. Things have to change, or we will continue to be one of the worst 3-point shooting teams in the association despite having an elite shooter like KAT.

What you're referring to here, FNG, are things that can perhaps lift an average shooter to above average, but it is not important enough to turn a bad shooter into a good shooter, or vice versa. We have shooters who have been significantly above average for much of their careers performing at below average marks, and severely below what their norm is. Something else is to blame. Perhaps it's the change in game ball. That would make sense to me, especially considering the thousands of reps these guys have put in with the old Spalding ball. Perhaps it's the Minnesota curse that Q has often highlighted. Whatever it is, I don't expect it to continue for much longer or throughout the season, but it is unquestionably a big component to this team's poor start.

Also, according to NBA.com, a "wide open" three-pointer happens with six or more feet of room between the shooter and the defender. An "open" three-pointer happens with 4-6 feet of room, a "tightly" contested three-pointer comes with 2-4 feet of room, and a "very tightly" contested three-pointer comes with 0-2 feet of room. There's actual criteria in determining such a stat that makes it more objective (and not subjective).

When a shooter is "wide open" under these circumstances, you can basically throw the ball at his shoestrings and he should be expected to hit the shot. That's how good these guys are and emphasizes how much work goes into their shots. They'd be the first to admit that. Getting an accurate pass that allows them to get into their shot motion falls under the "nice to have" category, but not the "need to have" category. Make the shot.

Good point, FNG, about KAT's bad passing. It's too often careless and reckless. That one-handed over-the-shoulder thing he tries when he gets doubled is picked off frequently. He usually waits a second too long to try it, so the defense can anticipate it. And when he gets doubled, he often leans away from the D for a second or so while seemingly deciding what to do, so he's leaning at a weird position when he finally does make the pass, which might help explain why so many of them sail wide or are down at guys' knees. Just make the smart pass out to the chest of the perimeter player quickly and let that guy swing it to the open shooter or cutter. The other guys do need to move off-the-ball to get open when he gets doubled more quickly too, especially Ant. And KAT also tries some flashy, no-look passes at times that just aren't worth the risk. DLO and Ant also do that a bit. And some of the passes these guys try to force to Josh and Vando in awkward positions or driving toward the basket with the defense in place just leave me shaking my head--like, even if they defy the odds and catch the ball (not high odds with Vando), what are they going to do with it?

Ant has shown some nice flashes with his passing, and if he gets better, he should be a really good pick and roll guy with KAT in theory. But so often, it's just him dribbling the air out outside the perimeter while everybody else stands around like they don't know what's going on. That just lets the defense get set. I'm fine with Ant shooting the ball a lot (hopefully more often at the rim), but it can't come from so many damn isos.

Guys only seem to pass on this team when they have to or when they shouldn't try it (and it looks like they're trying to look cool doing it). The big three in particular clearly need to learn to trust each other, and we need to start running and actually executing some actual plays to get the ball moving.

Although I'm obviously a fan, I've always enjoyed watching other teams play as well as watching us. This year, it's just so apparent that other teams run better offense than we do. This is a key reason why we're underperforming our talent level.

I think the new ball explanation may have some legitimacy since shooting % is down league-wide, but why does it affect us more than everyone else? We're 24th in 3pt% overall despite constructing the best-shooting roster (on paper) that we've had in years.

I blame the curse until a more believable explanation is discovered. I mean, this is nothing new for this franchise, no matter who the personnel, coaching, or front office is.

Ricky Rubio shoots 36% on 3s with Phoenix the year before last. He's shooting 39% with Cleveland this season. He barely shot 30% with the Wolves last season. I mean, that says it all!

Cam, I think the new ball does explain some of the decline in Wolves' shooting. Brooklyn currently leads the league with 38.5%, but 5 teams shot better than that last year. Conversely, Cleveland was the worst 3-point shooting team last year at 33.6%, and this year 10 teams are worse than that.

But I still think our stagnant offense is the main reason for our poor shooting this year. I understand that there are specific criteria for "wide open", "open", etc, but I still argue that all "wide open" shots are not created equal. Take Ant for example. When he is playing his typical one-on-one game, he can create a wide open three...he can fake a drive and get his defender back on his heels and backing up several feet respecting the drive, and then step back and take a three with lots of space. And my eye test tells me he is not as successful with his step back threes as he is with threes he shoots in rhythm...few shooters are. And our stagnant iso offense leads to a lot of step back threes...especially for KAT, Ant and DLo. Beasley is the one guy who still seems to get most of his threes in rhythm, but his lack of an off-season is holding him back. KAT also gets a lot of wide open threes at the top of the key by coming down last on offense, and he is making them at a high rate. Our offense was clicking late last season with a lot of movement resulting in higher-percentage threes than the isolation ones we are taking this year. Absent getting back to that, I have little faith that our shooting is going to improve very much.