FNG wrote:I love a good political discussion. It seems odd to have this kind of discussion on a board I assume most of us come to for the purpose of getting AWAY from this pervasive kind of discussion, but I'll bite on the issue of the integrity of the election.
I'm going to paraphrase Abe Lincoln here with a quote I try to live by every day: "I'm a better person when I consider the possibility that the other person might actually be right". So, for the past couple months I have listened to, and tried to understand the veracity of, the claims of Trump and his supporters that the election was rigged and stolen. In the end though it seems to come down to what do you choose to believe: conspiracy theories thrown out there by bizarre groups like QAnon (hmm...was Hillary Clinton really using that pizza parlor to operate a child pornography ring?) and a president who has proven to be a shockingly immature poor loser, or the conclusions of the institutions of what I believe to be the greatest country in the world...our hard-working election officials, our justice department, and our courts (many judges of which were appointed in the past 4 years by the same losing candidate who has asked them to reverse the outcome of the election with no reasonable evidence).
The choice for me is easy...I carefully review the evidence and ultimately reject the unfounded conspiracy theories and instead choose to believe the conclusions of America's institutions, which are admittedly not perfect, but in my opinion by far the best in the world. I agree with Drew that it must be enormously painful to support a candidate and to really believe that your candidate was cheated and the election stolen from him/her. But I can't imagine having so little faith in the institutions in the country I lived in that I categorically rejected the conclusions of those institutions in favor of unsupported conspiracy theories.
I'm not trying to go full "America...love it or leave it" here. But I honestly wonder why dissidents who have no faith in the institutions of this country would want to continue to live here? I don't think I could do it. It's a big world out there with many options for countries to live in where you might be more comfortable with the governing institutions, many of which have governing philosophies markedly different from the USA. If the answer is you choose to live here because you're trying to change it dramatically from within, good luck...our Constitution is the oldest one in the world, and not likely to change much. Would it not be easier and less painful to just choose another country whose government and institutions you could more easily believe in and support?
Dude, it's not about trump it's about supporting full blown socialism... I'll keep this short so you can try to focus on just grasping that. I'm honestly shocked by the intelligent people out there that just don't get that. Yeah ok, I along with the other 70 million "dissidents" should leave because I don't want to abandon the constitution and open the borders for full blown socialism. Wow. I lol at how you and others still label all of these things as conspiracy theories.
What is your definition of socialism?
My definition? It seems like you're asking me if I really understand what the word means... in a nice way... thanks :) I think we've been moving more toward it, without actually calling it that for a while (more in some states than others). Obviously it's equal compensation for all members of society, regardless of your job or if you have one. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions to any "socialist" government for the special people. It's been proven over and over again to fail throughout history because it destroys incentive, but yet people who think with their hearts instead of their brain continue to support it. World socialism is the plan, but to achieve it, the elites had to destroy the last remaining democracy. That's why they pulled out all the stops in 2020... they've been growing inpatient over the last few decades especially after they thought they had it in 2016. Also, they knew that American still wouldn't be able to elect an openly socialist candidate, which is why they needed to use a "moderate" as their Trojan horse. However, Americans still wouldn't vote to destroy their national sovereignty... so that's when they needed to steal the election. So in conclusion, combining socialism (or socialist policies) with open borders is the fastest way to destroy a country from within. China and the world elites never even had to fire a shot to win this war.
I asked for a definition because I find defining terms quite helpful when having a discussion about a topic.
So I guess I need it explained why these elites are doing everything in their power to bring about socialism? How exactly are the people who would benefit from capitalism letting this happen?
Great questions monster. Power. I think it goes deeper than that, as you can maybe tell from some of my earlier comments, but for simplicity sake I'll just say "power".
Like I said, socialism is just for the masses, it never effects people at the very top. Why do you think they're destroying all the small businesses in our country? They've been able to kill a lot of birds this past year with just a few stones. Also, just to clarify, when I say "they", I'm not talking about Biden, I'm talking about Gates and the like.
Socialism is bringing Bill Gates power? How? Why?
So it's socialism that's hurting small businesses? So I guess Walmart and Amazon are socialist?
Yeah, killing small business hurts capitalism. Absolutely. And yes gates and other big tech companies are behind it. You're asking questions that aren't easy answers but ultimately it comes down to people like gates who think they can create a one world government that tracks everyone ultimately through a chip. It's not hard to see how some of them might even be well intentioned from a secular perspective, but I'm a Christian and I leaned about everything we're seeing now through Bible prophecy.
FNG wrote:I love a good political discussion. It seems odd to have this kind of discussion on a board I assume most of us come to for the purpose of getting AWAY from this pervasive kind of discussion, but I'll bite on the issue of the integrity of the election.
I'm going to paraphrase Abe Lincoln here with a quote I try to live by every day: "I'm a better person when I consider the possibility that the other person might actually be right". So, for the past couple months I have listened to, and tried to understand the veracity of, the claims of Trump and his supporters that the election was rigged and stolen. In the end though it seems to come down to what do you choose to believe: conspiracy theories thrown out there by bizarre groups like QAnon (hmm...was Hillary Clinton really using that pizza parlor to operate a child pornography ring?) and a president who has proven to be a shockingly immature poor loser, or the conclusions of the institutions of what I believe to be the greatest country in the world...our hard-working election officials, our justice department, and our courts (many judges of which were appointed in the past 4 years by the same losing candidate who has asked them to reverse the outcome of the election with no reasonable evidence).
The choice for me is easy...I carefully review the evidence and ultimately reject the unfounded conspiracy theories and instead choose to believe the conclusions of America's institutions, which are admittedly not perfect, but in my opinion by far the best in the world. I agree with Drew that it must be enormously painful to support a candidate and to really believe that your candidate was cheated and the election stolen from him/her. But I can't imagine having so little faith in the institutions in the country I lived in that I categorically rejected the conclusions of those institutions in favor of unsupported conspiracy theories.
I'm not trying to go full "America...love it or leave it" here. But I honestly wonder why dissidents who have no faith in the institutions of this country would want to continue to live here? I don't think I could do it. It's a big world out there with many options for countries to live in where you might be more comfortable with the governing institutions, many of which have governing philosophies markedly different from the USA. If the answer is you choose to live here because you're trying to change it dramatically from within, good luck...our Constitution is the oldest one in the world, and not likely to change much. Would it not be easier and less painful to just choose another country whose government and institutions you could more easily believe in and support?
Dude, it's not about trump it's about supporting full blown socialism... I'll keep this short so you can try to focus on just grasping that. I'm honestly shocked by the intelligent people out there that just don't get that. Yeah ok, I along with the other 70 million "dissidents" should leave because I don't want to abandon the constitution and open the borders for full blown socialism. Wow. I lol at how you and others still label all of these things as conspiracy theories.
What is your definition of socialism?
My definition? It seems like you're asking me if I really understand what the word means... in a nice way... thanks :) I think we've been moving more toward it, without actually calling it that for a while (more in some states than others). Obviously it's equal compensation for all members of society, regardless of your job or if you have one. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions to any "socialist" government for the special people. It's been proven over and over again to fail throughout history because it destroys incentive, but yet people who think with their hearts instead of their brain continue to support it. World socialism is the plan, but to achieve it, the elites had to destroy the last remaining democracy. That's why they pulled out all the stops in 2020... they've been growing inpatient over the last few decades especially after they thought they had it in 2016. Also, they knew that American still wouldn't be able to elect an openly socialist candidate, which is why they needed to use a "moderate" as their Trojan horse. However, Americans still wouldn't vote to destroy their national sovereignty... so that's when they needed to steal the election. So in conclusion, combining socialism (or socialist policies) with open borders is the fastest way to destroy a country from within. China and the world elites never even had to fire a shot to win this war.
I asked for a definition because I find defining terms quite helpful when having a discussion about a topic.
So I guess I need it explained why these elites are doing everything in their power to bring about socialism? How exactly are the people who would benefit from capitalism letting this happen?
Great questions monster. Power. I think it goes deeper than that, as you can maybe tell from some of my earlier comments, but for simplicity sake I'll just say "power".
Like I said, socialism is just for the masses, it never effects people at the very top. Why do you think they're destroying all the small businesses in our country? They've been able to kill a lot of birds this past year with just a few stones. Also, just to clarify, when I say "they", I'm not talking about Biden, I'm talking about Gates and the like.
Socialism is bringing Bill Gates power? How? Why?
So it's socialism that's hurting small businesses? So I guess Walmart and Amazon are socialist?
Yeah, killing small business hurts capitalism. Absolutely. And yes gates and other big tech companies are behind it. You're asking questions that aren't easy answers but ultimately it comes down to people like gates who think they can create a one world government that tracks everyone ultimately through a chip. It's not hard to see how some of them might even be well intentioned from a secular perspective, but I'm a Christian and I leaned about everything we're seeing now through Bible prophecy.
FNG wrote:I love a good political discussion. It seems odd to have this kind of discussion on a board I assume most of us come to for the purpose of getting AWAY from this pervasive kind of discussion, but I'll bite on the issue of the integrity of the election.
I'm going to paraphrase Abe Lincoln here with a quote I try to live by every day: "I'm a better person when I consider the possibility that the other person might actually be right". So, for the past couple months I have listened to, and tried to understand the veracity of, the claims of Trump and his supporters that the election was rigged and stolen. In the end though it seems to come down to what do you choose to believe: conspiracy theories thrown out there by bizarre groups like QAnon (hmm...was Hillary Clinton really using that pizza parlor to operate a child pornography ring?) and a president who has proven to be a shockingly immature poor loser, or the conclusions of the institutions of what I believe to be the greatest country in the world...our hard-working election officials, our justice department, and our courts (many judges of which were appointed in the past 4 years by the same losing candidate who has asked them to reverse the outcome of the election with no reasonable evidence).
The choice for me is easy...I carefully review the evidence and ultimately reject the unfounded conspiracy theories and instead choose to believe the conclusions of America's institutions, which are admittedly not perfect, but in my opinion by far the best in the world. I agree with Drew that it must be enormously painful to support a candidate and to really believe that your candidate was cheated and the election stolen from him/her. But I can't imagine having so little faith in the institutions in the country I lived in that I categorically rejected the conclusions of those institutions in favor of unsupported conspiracy theories.
I'm not trying to go full "America...love it or leave it" here. But I honestly wonder why dissidents who have no faith in the institutions of this country would want to continue to live here? I don't think I could do it. It's a big world out there with many options for countries to live in where you might be more comfortable with the governing institutions, many of which have governing philosophies markedly different from the USA. If the answer is you choose to live here because you're trying to change it dramatically from within, good luck...our Constitution is the oldest one in the world, and not likely to change much. Would it not be easier and less painful to just choose another country whose government and institutions you could more easily believe in and support?
Dude, it's not about trump it's about supporting full blown socialism... I'll keep this short so you can try to focus on just grasping that. I'm honestly shocked by the intelligent people out there that just don't get that. Yeah ok, I along with the other 70 million "dissidents" should leave because I don't want to abandon the constitution and open the borders for full blown socialism. Wow. I lol at how you and others still label all of these things as conspiracy theories.
What is your definition of socialism?
My definition? It seems like you're asking me if I really understand what the word means... in a nice way... thanks :) I think we've been moving more toward it, without actually calling it that for a while (more in some states than others). Obviously it's equal compensation for all members of society, regardless of your job or if you have one. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions to any "socialist" government for the special people. It's been proven over and over again to fail throughout history because it destroys incentive, but yet people who think with their hearts instead of their brain continue to support it. World socialism is the plan, but to achieve it, the elites had to destroy the last remaining democracy. That's why they pulled out all the stops in 2020... they've been growing inpatient over the last few decades especially after they thought they had it in 2016. Also, they knew that American still wouldn't be able to elect an openly socialist candidate, which is why they needed to use a "moderate" as their Trojan horse. However, Americans still wouldn't vote to destroy their national sovereignty... so that's when they needed to steal the election. So in conclusion, combining socialism (or socialist policies) with open borders is the fastest way to destroy a country from within. China and the world elites never even had to fire a shot to win this war.
I asked for a definition because I find defining terms quite helpful when having a discussion about a topic.
So I guess I need it explained why these elites are doing everything in their power to bring about socialism? How exactly are the people who would benefit from capitalism letting this happen?
Great questions monster. Power. I think it goes deeper than that, as you can maybe tell from some of my earlier comments, but for simplicity sake I'll just say "power".
Like I said, socialism is just for the masses, it never effects people at the very top. Why do you think they're destroying all the small businesses in our country? They've been able to kill a lot of birds this past year with just a few stones. Also, just to clarify, when I say "they", I'm not talking about Biden, I'm talking about Gates and the like.
Socialism is bringing Bill Gates power? How? Why?
So it's socialism that's hurting small businesses? So I guess Walmart and Amazon are socialist?
IDK if we need to focus on Bill Gates, but money itself is a competition. When lots and lots of people have money to spend Bill Gates needs to spend more for the goods or services he wants. So having millions of small businesses destroyed is GREAT for anyone who is already rich. All of a sudden less people will be buying things or services they want. It's great for bankers, the big ones. They can foreclose and take possession of tons and tons of commercial real estate, eventually they will sell it again and make a profit. In the meantime, all those businesses are destroyed. Good for those who have not been destroyed.
Here is the quote from Thomas Jefferson warning of bankers taking over.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
FNG wrote:I love a good political discussion. It seems odd to have this kind of discussion on a board I assume most of us come to for the purpose of getting AWAY from this pervasive kind of discussion, but I'll bite on the issue of the integrity of the election.
I'm going to paraphrase Abe Lincoln here with a quote I try to live by every day: "I'm a better person when I consider the possibility that the other person might actually be right". So, for the past couple months I have listened to, and tried to understand the veracity of, the claims of Trump and his supporters that the election was rigged and stolen. In the end though it seems to come down to what do you choose to believe: conspiracy theories thrown out there by bizarre groups like QAnon (hmm...was Hillary Clinton really using that pizza parlor to operate a child pornography ring?) and a president who has proven to be a shockingly immature poor loser, or the conclusions of the institutions of what I believe to be the greatest country in the world...our hard-working election officials, our justice department, and our courts (many judges of which were appointed in the past 4 years by the same losing candidate who has asked them to reverse the outcome of the election with no reasonable evidence).
The choice for me is easy...I carefully review the evidence and ultimately reject the unfounded conspiracy theories and instead choose to believe the conclusions of America's institutions, which are admittedly not perfect, but in my opinion by far the best in the world. I agree with Drew that it must be enormously painful to support a candidate and to really believe that your candidate was cheated and the election stolen from him/her. But I can't imagine having so little faith in the institutions in the country I lived in that I categorically rejected the conclusions of those institutions in favor of unsupported conspiracy theories.
I'm not trying to go full "America...love it or leave it" here. But I honestly wonder why dissidents who have no faith in the institutions of this country would want to continue to live here? I don't think I could do it. It's a big world out there with many options for countries to live in where you might be more comfortable with the governing institutions, many of which have governing philosophies markedly different from the USA. If the answer is you choose to live here because you're trying to change it dramatically from within, good luck...our Constitution is the oldest one in the world, and not likely to change much. Would it not be easier and less painful to just choose another country whose government and institutions you could more easily believe in and support?
Dude, it's not about trump it's about supporting full blown socialism... I'll keep this short so you can try to focus on just grasping that. I'm honestly shocked by the intelligent people out there that just don't get that. Yeah ok, I along with the other 70 million "dissidents" should leave because I don't want to abandon the constitution and open the borders for full blown socialism. Wow. I lol at how you and others still label all of these things as conspiracy theories.
What is your definition of socialism?
My definition? It seems like you're asking me if I really understand what the word means... in a nice way... thanks :) I think we've been moving more toward it, without actually calling it that for a while (more in some states than others). Obviously it's equal compensation for all members of society, regardless of your job or if you have one. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions to any "socialist" government for the special people. It's been proven over and over again to fail throughout history because it destroys incentive, but yet people who think with their hearts instead of their brain continue to support it. World socialism is the plan, but to achieve it, the elites had to destroy the last remaining democracy. That's why they pulled out all the stops in 2020... they've been growing inpatient over the last few decades especially after they thought they had it in 2016. Also, they knew that American still wouldn't be able to elect an openly socialist candidate, which is why they needed to use a "moderate" as their Trojan horse. However, Americans still wouldn't vote to destroy their national sovereignty... so that's when they needed to steal the election. So in conclusion, combining socialism (or socialist policies) with open borders is the fastest way to destroy a country from within. China and the world elites never even had to fire a shot to win this war.
I asked for a definition because I find defining terms quite helpful when having a discussion about a topic.
So I guess I need it explained why these elites are doing everything in their power to bring about socialism? How exactly are the people who would benefit from capitalism letting this happen?
Great questions monster. Power. I think it goes deeper than that, as you can maybe tell from some of my earlier comments, but for simplicity sake I'll just say "power".
Like I said, socialism is just for the masses, it never effects people at the very top. Why do you think they're destroying all the small businesses in our country? They've been able to kill a lot of birds this past year with just a few stones. Also, just to clarify, when I say "they", I'm not talking about Biden, I'm talking about Gates and the like.
Socialism is bringing Bill Gates power? How? Why?
So it's socialism that's hurting small businesses? So I guess Walmart and Amazon are socialist?
IDK if we need to focus on Bill Gates, but money itself is a competition. When lots and lots of people have money to spend Bill Gates needs to spend more for the goods or services he wants. So having millions of small businesses destroyed is GREAT for anyone who is already rich. All of a sudden less people will be buying things or services they want. It's great for bankers, the big ones. They can foreclose and take possession of tons and tons of commercial real estate, eventually they will sell it again and make a profit. In the meantime, all those businesses are destroyed. Good for those who have not been destroyed.
Here is the quote from Thomas Jefferson warning of bankers taking over.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
FNG wrote:I love a good political discussion. It seems odd to have this kind of discussion on a board I assume most of us come to for the purpose of getting AWAY from this pervasive kind of discussion, but I'll bite on the issue of the integrity of the election.
I'm going to paraphrase Abe Lincoln here with a quote I try to live by every day: "I'm a better person when I consider the possibility that the other person might actually be right". So, for the past couple months I have listened to, and tried to understand the veracity of, the claims of Trump and his supporters that the election was rigged and stolen. In the end though it seems to come down to what do you choose to believe: conspiracy theories thrown out there by bizarre groups like QAnon (hmm...was Hillary Clinton really using that pizza parlor to operate a child pornography ring?) and a president who has proven to be a shockingly immature poor loser, or the conclusions of the institutions of what I believe to be the greatest country in the world...our hard-working election officials, our justice department, and our courts (many judges of which were appointed in the past 4 years by the same losing candidate who has asked them to reverse the outcome of the election with no reasonable evidence).
The choice for me is easy...I carefully review the evidence and ultimately reject the unfounded conspiracy theories and instead choose to believe the conclusions of America's institutions, which are admittedly not perfect, but in my opinion by far the best in the world. I agree with Drew that it must be enormously painful to support a candidate and to really believe that your candidate was cheated and the election stolen from him/her. But I can't imagine having so little faith in the institutions in the country I lived in that I categorically rejected the conclusions of those institutions in favor of unsupported conspiracy theories.
I'm not trying to go full "America...love it or leave it" here. But I honestly wonder why dissidents who have no faith in the institutions of this country would want to continue to live here? I don't think I could do it. It's a big world out there with many options for countries to live in where you might be more comfortable with the governing institutions, many of which have governing philosophies markedly different from the USA. If the answer is you choose to live here because you're trying to change it dramatically from within, good luck...our Constitution is the oldest one in the world, and not likely to change much. Would it not be easier and less painful to just choose another country whose government and institutions you could more easily believe in and support?
Dude, it's not about trump it's about supporting full blown socialism... I'll keep this short so you can try to focus on just grasping that. I'm honestly shocked by the intelligent people out there that just don't get that. Yeah ok, I along with the other 70 million "dissidents" should leave because I don't want to abandon the constitution and open the borders for full blown socialism. Wow. I lol at how you and others still label all of these things as conspiracy theories.
What is your definition of socialism?
My definition? It seems like you're asking me if I really understand what the word means... in a nice way... thanks :) I think we've been moving more toward it, without actually calling it that for a while (more in some states than others). Obviously it's equal compensation for all members of society, regardless of your job or if you have one. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions to any "socialist" government for the special people. It's been proven over and over again to fail throughout history because it destroys incentive, but yet people who think with their hearts instead of their brain continue to support it. World socialism is the plan, but to achieve it, the elites had to destroy the last remaining democracy. That's why they pulled out all the stops in 2020... they've been growing inpatient over the last few decades especially after they thought they had it in 2016. Also, they knew that American still wouldn't be able to elect an openly socialist candidate, which is why they needed to use a "moderate" as their Trojan horse. However, Americans still wouldn't vote to destroy their national sovereignty... so that's when they needed to steal the election. So in conclusion, combining socialism (or socialist policies) with open borders is the fastest way to destroy a country from within. China and the world elites never even had to fire a shot to win this war.
I asked for a definition because I find defining terms quite helpful when having a discussion about a topic.
So I guess I need it explained why these elites are doing everything in their power to bring about socialism? How exactly are the people who would benefit from capitalism letting this happen?
Great questions monster. Power. I think it goes deeper than that, as you can maybe tell from some of my earlier comments, but for simplicity sake I'll just say "power".
Like I said, socialism is just for the masses, it never effects people at the very top. Why do you think they're destroying all the small businesses in our country? They've been able to kill a lot of birds this past year with just a few stones. Also, just to clarify, when I say "they", I'm not talking about Biden, I'm talking about Gates and the like.
Socialism is bringing Bill Gates power? How? Why?
So it's socialism that's hurting small businesses? So I guess Walmart and Amazon are socialist?
IDK if we need to focus on Bill Gates, but money itself is a competition. When lots and lots of people have money to spend Bill Gates needs to spend more for the goods or services he wants. So having millions of small businesses destroyed is GREAT for anyone who is already rich. All of a sudden less people will be buying things or services they want. It's great for bankers, the big ones. They can foreclose and take possession of tons and tons of commercial real estate, eventually they will sell it again and make a profit. In the meantime, all those businesses are destroyed. Good for those who have not been destroyed.
Here is the quote from Thomas Jefferson warning of bankers taking over.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
What does that have to do with Socialism?
IDK, I see Socialism as giving people just enough bread and circus so they do not revolt.
"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metonymic phrase referring to superficial appeasement. It is attributed to Juvenal, a Roman poet active in the late first and early second century CE -- and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.
In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace[1] -- by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).
Juvenal, who originated the phrase, used it to downcry the "selfishness" of common people and their neglect of wider concerns.[2][3][4] The phrase implies a population's erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.[5]
Contents
1 Ancient Rome
2 Contemporary manifestations
3 See also
4 Notes
5 Sources
6 Further reading
Ancient Rome[edit]
Further information: Grain supply to the city of Rome and Populares
This phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman satirical poet Juvenal (c. CE 100). In context, the Latin panem et circenses (bread and circuses) identifies the only remaining interest of a Roman populace which no longer cares for its historical birthright of political involvement. Here Juvenal displays his contempt for the declining heroism of contemporary Romans, using a range of different themes including lust for power and desire for old age to illustrate his argument.[6] Roman politicians passed laws in 140 CE to keep the votes of poorer citizens, by introducing a grain dole: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", became the most effective way to rise to power.
[...] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses. [...]
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions -- everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.[7]
--Juvenal, Satire 10.77-81
Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power. The Annona (grain dole) was begun under the instigation of the popularis politician Gaius Sempronius Gracchus in 123 BCE; it remained an object of political contention until it was taken under the control of the autocratic Roman emperors.
If you guys want to talk about the elections, the thread monster made is still in the general forum. I do think we should focus in that thread on the elections though. If you'd like to talk more generally about socialism, or one of these other issues, that's cool, but then maybe we could start another thread in the general forum. But I do think we should let this thread end here move over to the general forum for this.
