Q12543 wrote:Have only seen a little of Markkanen, but man, that guy can shoot.
Assuming we can't get one of the big dogs at PF (Milsap and Ibaka are the two that come to mind), I wonder if Patrick Patterson would be a nice consolation prize. I don't think he's good enough to take Dieng out of the starting lineup, but he is a stretch 4 that actually makes his 3 point shots, unlike Bjelly!
Patterson would be nice stretch four that is much more valuable for his team than you would think based on his stats. He has had +13.4 net rating this season and +14.4 on/off numbers. I doubt Toronto will let him go even tough they have to give Lowry quite a contract next summer.
One thing that I don't really like in his game is that he seems to be nowadays just a pure three point shooting threat. If opponent makes a counter move by playing wing as a power forward, Patterson is totally unable to capitalize his size advantage. Even Belly is better in post and I have seen opponent using Belinelli defending him. So I still really, really hope that Belly would found his shooting touch since he is much more versatile player than Patterson.
One player that I have proposed already before to go after and I still like, is Tony Snell. He is having his best season as a low usage 3&D wing in Milwaukee and since Milwaukee have already contracts worth of 115 millions for next season I doubt they will match any decent offer for Snell since they have Middleton and Greek Freak playing in front of him anyway.
Big fan of Snell as well but I'd prefer to go after a wing with some bulk like PJ Tucker.
Q12543 wrote:Have only seen a little of Markkanen, but man, that guy can shoot.
Assuming we can't get one of the big dogs at PF (Milsap and Ibaka are the two that come to mind), I wonder if Patrick Patterson would be a nice consolation prize. I don't think he's good enough to take Dieng out of the starting lineup, but he is a stretch 4 that actually makes his 3 point shots, unlike Bjelly!
Patterson would be nice stretch four that is much more valuable for his team than you would think based on his stats. He has had +13.4 net rating this season and +14.4 on/off numbers. I doubt Toronto will let him go even tough they have to give Lowry quite a contract next summer.
One thing that I don't really like in his game is that he seems to be nowadays just a pure three point shooting threat. If opponent makes a counter move by playing wing as a power forward, Patterson is totally unable to capitalize his size advantage. Even Belly is better in post and I have seen opponent using Belinelli defending him. So I still really, really hope that Belly would found his shooting touch since he is much more versatile player than Patterson.
One player that I have proposed already before to go after and I still like, is Tony Snell. He is having his best season as a low usage 3&D wing in Milwaukee and since Milwaukee have already contracts worth of 115 millions for next season I doubt they will match any decent offer for Snell since they have Middleton and Greek Freak playing in front of him anyway.
Big fan of Snell as well but I'd prefer to go after a wing with some bulk like PJ Tucker.
No need for PJ Tucker if we keep Shabazz around!
The way Shabazz is playing now makes it disappointing that we didn't get a deal done. I'm betting a team like the nets throws a good amount at him ala Crabbe/Johnson last off season.
Q12543 wrote:Have only seen a little of Markkanen, but man, that guy can shoot.
Assuming we can't get one of the big dogs at PF (Milsap and Ibaka are the two that come to mind), I wonder if Patrick Patterson would be a nice consolation prize. I don't think he's good enough to take Dieng out of the starting lineup, but he is a stretch 4 that actually makes his 3 point shots, unlike Bjelly!
Patterson would be nice stretch four that is much more valuable for his team than you would think based on his stats. He has had +13.4 net rating this season and +14.4 on/off numbers. I doubt Toronto will let him go even tough they have to give Lowry quite a contract next summer.
One thing that I don't really like in his game is that he seems to be nowadays just a pure three point shooting threat. If opponent makes a counter move by playing wing as a power forward, Patterson is totally unable to capitalize his size advantage. Even Belly is better in post and I have seen opponent using Belinelli defending him. So I still really, really hope that Belly would found his shooting touch since he is much more versatile player than Patterson.
One player that I have proposed already before to go after and I still like, is Tony Snell. He is having his best season as a low usage 3&D wing in Milwaukee and since Milwaukee have already contracts worth of 115 millions for next season I doubt they will match any decent offer for Snell since they have Middleton and Greek Freak playing in front of him anyway.
Big fan of Snell as well but I'd prefer to go after a wing with some bulk like PJ Tucker.
No need for PJ Tucker if we keep Shabazz around!
The way Shabazz is playing now makes it disappointing that we didn't get a deal done. I'm betting a team like the nets throws a good amount at him ala Crabbe/Johnson last off season.
Its hard to complain too much they didn't get a deal done. They probably didn't want to offer alot and Bazz wasn't willing ot take a cheap deal considering he couldn't be sure what his role would even be. I don't think Bazz is gonna get those types of deals. Why? as good as he has been playing those guys can handle the ball and create. Bazz just doesn't have that. Could he get a nice offer? Sure. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Wolves and Bazz come up with a nice offer before he hits the market. I don't know what that number could be but considering he mid-level is going to jump to the 9 million dollar range my guess is 10 million could easily be in play or more. Thibs has had Bazz as one of the first guys (if not the first guy) off the bench all year. Thats gotta make Bazz feel like he has some legit value to the team and now we are seeing the offense get him some good touches in his sweet spots.
I just got back from the Michigan State vs Nebraska game. Here are some thoughts.
First of all I am biased but I don't think NE defense was as bad as the stats suggested MSU was just hitting shots. MSU had probably 12 points on end of shot clock 3 point possessions. It was a good game.
I was really weird to watch a Nebraska basketball game and the Huskers had a size advantage with the Freshman Jordy. Miles was guarding him at first and he was too small. Jordy had what i assume was his best game of the year. Miles didn't do anything jaw dropping. He seemed to know what he was supposed to do often was vocal in telling guys were they needed to be at times on offense and took advantage at times when he got good looks. He was active and is pretty strong for a possible wing player but he didn't seem to be all that skilled or explosive. He basically lived up to the scouting report I read and what I saw in highlight videos. That doesn't mean he sucks it's just he isn't going to blow you away. Still the guy is pretty productive playing with a young group of guys and he missed a few games because of injury.
#44 for MSU is a freshman and isn't the tallest guy but is a big body (dropped a bunch of weight over the summer) that throws it around and seems to know how to play. He is averaging 2 blocks a game and all things considered it's pretty impressive. I'll be interested to see how his career unfolds.
It was a fun night with a pretty good crowd on a Thursday night with a 6pm start. They retired Ty Lue's jersey and it was a good ceremony. They had a nice video and all that and then Ty came out with his mom and said some words. I remember going to at least one Huskers game when he was with the team. That was a pretty good stretch of Husker basketball with Danny Nee as coach where they sent a few guys to the NBA including Eric Piakowski (I remember watching him and his brother playing in the Sputh Dakota state basketball tourneys) Eric Strickland, Mikki Moore and of course Lue. It feels like all things considered Miles might get things heading more in that direction than the basically irrelevant team they have been since Nee left.
One last player thought. I'll say it now that Tai Webster could be a guy that makes an NBA roster at some point as a depth guard. He has played a lot of PG in college and he has the size of a SG. He plays hard plays D is pretty smart and can attack and finish around the rim. He has enough athletically to make it I think. He likely won't be drafted and probably will make money playing in an international league but I think if he can improve like he did over 4 years in college at some point he could have value on an NBA roster. It's a bit of a homer take and if I had read this post 2 years ago I would have either laughed very hard or said "wow he really improved that much?" He wasn't very good his first couple years but got in fantastic shape and put in the work and the talent he was supposed to have came through. It's been a good story even if it came later than it could have.
I'm a BIG believer in Caleb Swanigan on this team.
The biggest thing this team needs whether this team drafts someone or trades the pick is someone who's not a punk. The two biggest assholes on this team should not be the owner and coach. It should be someone on the court.
I remembered that a I didn't do a report of the Wisconsin Nebraska game from last week. as far as draft considerations there isn't bigtime player but I'll add a couple things about my experience.
It was a terrific game that went into overtime. Nebraska's defense most of the game was unbelievable. It was a bit of an ugly game but it was wire to wire the whole game. It was hard to believe the Huskers were basically able to neutralize the bigs for Wisconsin plus not get killed from the 3 point line. If they had made one more play one less turnover or hit another FT (poor FT shooting team) they could have won this game. It was a pretty full arena maybe the most i have seen in a couple years (the team draws really well) and man the fans were giving it to the refs on calls. Some of them I thought looked bad regardless but some the replay showed either a very close call or the refs actually got it right. It was a rowdy night that's for sure it was a good time.
Hayes is a guy that generally speaking hasn't improved a while lot since I saw him play 4 years ago. He will get paid to play basketball somewhere but I thought he was a guy that would get better over time. Maybe he has in subtle ways but he could be a cautionary tale of guys that don't get much better.
Which brings us to Happ. He looked solid and made a lot of the right plays. A few times he got the rebound and brought the ball up the floor a decent ways and looked pretty fluid doing it. I think he needs to extend his range to be more of a prospect at the next level. He did hit a long 2 in the first half that looked good.
After a terrific game where Nebraska took the 7th ranked team into overtime didn't look too out of place against that team...the talk the next day both on the local radio station and some chatter was whether Tim Miles should or would keep his job. I was thinking the opposite how a game like that showed the guy has this young team on the right track. How does he not get credit for that defensive effort? It was kinda bizarre. Anyway tonight I am going to the Penn State vs NE. Tickets were dirt cheap since it's Valentine's Day but I don't have to worry about that since we have even covered with the upcoming Paris trip this week. :)
Interesting thread about the draft and an interesting point was made about the possible glut of bigs already in the NBA may have an impact on this draft.
CHAD FORD BIG BOARD 4.0
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/18833084/chad-ford-nba-draft-2017-big-board-40-ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-more
1. Markelle Fultz
Previous rank: No. 1
Washington
Freshman
Guard
Fultz's grasp on the No. 1 pick has always been a bit tenuous. It hasn't helped that Fultz has been out of the lineup since Feb. 9 after suffering a knee injury against Washington State, forcing him to miss a key second matchup against Lonzo Ball on March 1.
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However, in a survey of a number of top NBA execs and scouts, Fultz still polled slightly ahead of Ball as the No. 1 pick. What's keeping him ahead? He's a more complete player and scorer than Ball and lacks any major holes in his game.
This doesn't mean he'll be the No. 1 pick, though several teams that could potentially land the No. 1 pick like the Celtics, Sixers and Wolves seem to be leaning toward Fultz right now.
Medical testing (no one in the NBA really knows what's going on with that knee), workouts and interviews will now be key for Fultz to hold on to the top position.
2. Lonzo Ball
Previous rank: No. 2
UCLA
Freshman
Guard
Ball continues to gain momentum in the drive for the No. 1 pick. While he is a less complete player than Fultz, the things he does well, he does really well.
Scouts are particularly enamored with his ability to control the game offensively. He makes everyone around him better but can take over games when things get close.
Several teams with good odds of winning the lottery like the Lakers, Suns and Magic appear to be leaning toward Ball. With Fultz's season probably over, a big NCAA tournament for Ball could help him gain even more ground.
3. Josh Jackson
Previous rank: No. 3
Kansas
Freshman
Forward
While Fultz and Ball are the clear favorites for the No. 1 pick, there are a handful of NBA GMs and scouts who feel that Jackson also makes a very strong case for the top pick.
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He has improved significantly as the season has progressed, especially as a shooter. In his past 12 games he has shot 51 percent from 3 (18-for-35). He also has recorded seven double-doubles in that 12-game stretch.
He continues to be turnover prone and his free-throw shooting is a red flag worth noting, but Jackson's competitive fire and ability to play multiple positions are big pluses.
If he can keep hitting shots, he has superstar upside.
4. Dennis Smith
Previous rank: No. 4
NC State
Freshman
Guard
Smith is in the same boat as Fultz. Individually, he has had a terrific freshman season. But his team has lost nine of its past 10 games, and barring an improbable run in the ACC tourney, his season will end early.
The poor performances by the Wolfpack have taken their toll on Smith's draft stock a little. NBA scouts want to see point guards impact the game, and Smith doesn't have the same excuse that Fultz does. There was talent on this roster.
However, his elite athleticism and ability to get his shot anywhere on the floor are such big pluses that Smith's draft stock looks very secure in the Nos. 3-7 range.
5. Jonathan Isaac
Previous rank: No. 5
FSU
Freshman
Forward
While Isaac's production hasn't been particularly impressive of late (he scored only two points against Miami on Saturday and has failed to put up double-digit scoring in four of his past eight games), NBA scouts remain enamored with his elite skill set for a player his size. He also is a bit of an analytics darling (he ranks second to Ball on Kevin Pelton's statistical Big Board), which helps his cause.
If he can do put together a few big games for Florida State in the ACC and NCAA tournaments, he'll improve his stock.
Right now he also seems locked into that Nos. 4-7 range.
6. Malik Monk
Previous rank: No. 6
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard
When Monk is taking and hitting shots, he looks like a sure fire top-5 pick. There isn't a more lethal scorer in college basketball when he gets going (with the possible exception of Central Michigan's Marcus Keene).
Monk's biggest issue right now is consistency. He has frustrated John Calipari this season with the up-and-down nature of his play. He's also strikingly one-dimensional for a player ranked this high. But some scouts feel that Monk is still developing as a player and that we might see more dimensions to his game (creating off the dribble, floor vision) in the NBA than we see from him in college.
7. Lauri Markkanen
Previous rank: No. 9
Arizona
Freshman
Forward
Markkanen has a lot of fans among NBA scouts who see him as an ideal stretch-4 in the league. He's big and mobile at 7 feet, 230 pounds and can really, really stroke it from deep.
Markkanen has been in a shooting slump (4-for-28 from 3 in his past eight games) but his 3-point percentage is still at 43 percent for the season.
There are questions about who he'll defend at the next level and his rebounding could improve, but offensively, he looks like a terrific prospect.
8. Jayson Tatum
Previous rank: No. 7
Duke
Freshman
Forward
Tatum has all the physical tools to be a dominant NBA 3. Shooting remains the biggest question mark for him.
Tatum makes nearly 60 percent of his shots at the rim. However, things get a little sketchier as he moves away from the basket. He got on a hot streak as a shooter in mid-February, going 12-for-19 from 3 in a three-game stretch before regressing to the mean and hitting only three of his next 16 3s.
His 2-point jump shooting is essentially on par with his 3-point game (36 percent from the field). Some scouts feel Tatum has good enough mechanics to improve that area of his game.
9. De'Aaron Fox
Previous rank: No. 10
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard
Fox has been hobbled by injuries in February (first a right ankle, then a twisted knee) and hasn't really played at 100 percent. But he was still able to manage 19 points in a win versus Texas A&M on Saturday and seems to be getting back to his old self.
The jump shot has improved a little but still remains the biggest source of concern for scouts.
10. Miles Bridges
Previous rank: No. 12
Michigan State
Freshman
Forward
Bridges continues to impress scouts with his combination of athleticism, scoring ability and floor vision. He's shooting an impressive 41 percent on jumpers (both from 3 and from 2, according to Hoop-Math). He also has proven to be a terrific rebounder and a solid shot-blocker.
His team should make the tournament, but a loss to Maryland on Saturday didn't help the cause. Some scouts feel he's a better long-term prospect than Tatum. It will be interesting to see those two go at it in workouts.
11. Frank Ntilikina
Previous rank: No. 11
France
Age: 18
Guard
Ntilikina moved from the bench into a starting role for Strasbourg five games ago and his past three games have been impressive. He's averaging 14 points in his past three games, shooting 7-for-10 from 3, and has committed only one turnover in that stretch.
He's really neck-and-neck with Fox for the next point guard off the board once Fultz, Ball and Smith are taken. If he were a little more explosive athletically, I think he'd have the clear edge.
Williams is coming off a big 20-point, 13-rebound effort against Kentucky where he outplayed Bam Adebayo. He has put up double-doubles in six of his past eight games and is shooting 41 percent on his 2-point jumpers, per Hoop-Math.
Scouts are becoming convinced that he's more than just an athletic shot-blocker. It will be really interesting to see what NBA scouts do if both Williams and Harry Giles are on the board.
13. Harry Giles
Previous rank: No. 8
Duke
Freshman
Forward
NBA scouts aren't sure what to do with Giles at this point. He plays sporadic minutes for Duke, shows flashes of his old self but is still largely ineffective when he's on the court. He still has the motor that intrigued coming into the season, but his explosiveness and feel just aren't there yet.
Everything on paper screams that Giles needs another year at Duke to really reach his potential. But NBA teams are also aware of just how much potential he has and a number of them told me they'd be willing to gamble on him if he falls outside the top 10.
14. Zach Collins
Previous rank: No. 21
Gonzaga
Freshman
Center
Collins continues to climb up the Big Board as we get closer to the draft. While he still plays a role off the bench and doesn't get the minutes a player of his caliber probably deserves, what he does do with those minutes has really been extraordinary.
He's efficient from everywhere on the floor. He can score at the basket thanks to explosive athleticism, and he's comfortable operating out of the high post and knocking down jumpers on the pick-and-pop. He's even shooting 44 percent from 3, though he doesn't take them very often.
He needs to get stronger, but the buzz about Collins keeps getting louder and louder.
15. Justin Patton
Previous rank: No. 13
Creighton
Freshman
Center
Patton's amazing efficiency has cooled off a little (thanks in large part to Creighton losing point guard Maurice Watson for the season). But all of the things that scouts love about his game remain and there is so much untapped potential.
In a draft that mostly lacks elite big men, someone might take a chance on him in the late lottery.
16. Jarrett Allen
Previous rank: No. 19
Texas
Freshman
Center
Allen's rangy athleticism, his massive 7-foot-6 wingspan and some huge games lately against Kansas and Baylor have impressed scouts. He's shooting nearly 50 percent on his 2-point jumpers this season, which is an underrated part of his game.
However, that statistic also holds part of the dilemma for scouts -- 58 percent of the shots Allen is taking this season are jumpers. He still tends to shy away from contact around the basket. Adding strength will help with some of that, but there are serious questions about his toughness.
17. T.J. Leaf
Previous rank: No. 15
UCLA
Freshman
Forward
Leaf sprained his ankle early in the game against Washington last Wednesday, but he's expected to be back in the Pac-12 tournament. Leaf is not particularly long or strong, but he is a good athlete, is very crafty in the paint and has the ability to step out and hit shots from anywhere on the floor.
As he adds strength, you could see him playing a role like Josh McRoberts or Luke Babbitt in the NBA.
18. John Collins
Previous rank: No. 24
Wake Forest
Sophomore
Forward
It has taken until pick No. 18 to finally have a non-freshman (or age equivalent) on our Big Board. That says something about the strength of this year's freshman class.
Collins remains one of the most efficient players in college basketball. With his size and athletic ability it's pretty easy to get excited about what he has to offer -- especially when you factor in that he's a very young sophomore (he doesn't turn 20 until September).
Scouts want to see him show more range on his jump shot so that he can be more of a modern 4 in the NBA. But all the other tools are there.
19. Ivan Rabb
Previous rank: No. 16
Cal
Sophomore
Forward
There's some mild disappointment from NBA scouts about Rabb's sophomore season. He has improved as a rebounder and a scorer, but it wasn't the leap that NBA teams had hoped to see.
With Cal looking likely to miss the NCAA tournament, he might not get a chance to prove himself on the big stage.
20. Isaiah Hartenstein
Previous rank: No. 18
Germany
Age: 18
Forward
Hartenstein briefly moved his way into the starting lineup for Zalgiris, scoring 13 points and grabbing seven rebounds in a game versus Siauliai before heading back to the bench (with just four minutes of playing time) against Neptune on Sunday.
He's played well enough in his time there, along with solid play at the FIBA under-19s, to warrant a pick this high. However, teams would love to see him get some run at the Nike Hoop Summit in April. A big showing there is probably the best way to boost his stock.
21. OG Anunoby
Previous rank: No. 17
Indiana
Sophomore
Forward
Anunoby had surgery on his knee a month ago, but NBA teams still know relatively little about the injury and how it will affect his draft stock.
If he decides to declare for the draft and teams feel that the surgery was a success, he should probably land in the Nos. 15-22 range. If he's going to miss his rookie season, he could slide a little further, but I doubt he falls out of the first round.
22. Terrance Ferguson
Previous rank: No. 20
Australia
Age: 19
Guard
Ferguson's season in Australia is over and now he heads back to the United States to prepare for the draft.
He didn't really do anything to help his draft stock there. According to our own Neil Johnson, his advanced statistics weren't very good and with so many dominant freshmen, he has lost some of the luster he earned with a strong performance in last year's Nike Hoop Summit.
The good news for him is that this is a weak draft for shooting guards and shooters in general, which could help Ferguson's case.
23. Rodions Kurucs
Previous rank: No. 23
Latvia
Age: 18
Forward
Kurucs has put up better numbers since moving into the starting lineup in late December. He's shooting 39 percent from 3 and has been able to show off some of his court vision.
He really remains mostly a long-term draft-and-stash prospect with significant upside.
24. Caleb Swanigan
Previous rank: N/A
Purdue
Sophomore
Forward
What a difference a year makes. Swanigan was considered a top-10 high school prospect who put up just a solid freshman season for Purdue. Swanigan spent the summer getting in the best shape of his life and the results have been outstanding.
Not only has he become both an elite rebounder and low-post scorer (he hits 80 percent of his shots at the rim), but he also has proven to be an excellent shooter, hitting 45 percent of his 3s.
Teams will always worry a bit about conditioning with Swanigan. It's going to take a constant commitment to stay in this sort of shape, but if he does he could be a very effective NBA player.
25. Edrice Adebayo
Previous rank: No. 27
Kentucky
Freshman
Forward
Bam's strength and explosive leaping ability make him an elite finisher at the rim. He gets 64 percent of his shots near the basket and is shooting a ridiculous 79.7 percent there, according to Hoop-Math.
His lack of overall shooting ability and his lackluster rebounding numbers (though he has had a string of big rebound games against Tennessee, Missouri and Florida) have him a little lower on our Big Board.
26. Tyler Lydon
Previous rank: No. 22
Syracuse
Sophomore
Forward
Lydon doesn't necessarily have a position in the NBA and teams are worried about his consistency, but he's shooting 41 percent from 3. He also rebounds and blocks shots.
It's a formula that should get him taken somewhere in the 20s.
27. Andrew Jones
Previous rank: No. 25
Texas
Freshman
Guard
Jones is another upside pick relying on size and elite athleticism at this point to carry him into the first round. He continues to be very inconsistent and is in the middle of a shooting slump over the past nine games.
Texas' season should end this week and he'll have a tough decision. Scouts all agree another year at Texas would be good for him. But there's enough raw potential to get him drafted in the Nos. 20-40 range.
28. Donovan Mitchell
Previous rank: No. 26
Louisville
Sophomore
Guard
Teams are desperate to find a few keepers at the shooting guard position and Mitchell's combination of elite athleticism and scoring chops make him an interesting prospect.
He even has some ballhandling abilities that make teams wonder if he could be a point guard at the next level.
29. Ike Anigbogu
Previous rank: N/A
UCLA
Freshman
Center
Anigbogu is super raw, but NBA teams are pretty high on his energy, rebounding and shot-blocking ability.
He could really use another year at UCLA, but if he came out now, he'd likely go in the Nos. 25-40 range.
30. Tony Bradley
Previous rank: No. 30
UNC
Freshman
Center
Bradley's lack of minutes hides a really strong freshman season coming off the bench for the Tar Heels.
Like several of the other freshmen at the bottom of this list, he's not ready for the NBA. His upside could sneak him into the first round.
Next five in
Next five: Yante Maten, PF, Jr., Georgia; Luke Kennard, SG, So., Duke; Justin Jackson, SF, Jr., North Carolina; Kostja Mushidi, SG, Belgium; Allonzo Trier, SG, So., Arizona
I have very little interest in this year's lottery and I hope we trade down in the draft or trade whoever we select for a veteran. The elite PGs are going to be taken by teams that draft ahead of us. After that, the talent level is less intriguing.
One guy that falls into our range is Lauri Markkanen. I have watched him a couple of times and am totally unimpressed. He moves very mechanically and seems to have a pretty weak motor. I think he's being overrated here because he happens to be a tall guy that can shoot it. Well, that isn't so rare anymore and to be drafted that high, you need to be able to do more than that! He's going to get destroyed defensively....(sorry Mikkeman!).
