Wolves VS Clippers preseason #2

[AbeVigodaLive]

Haven't seen any preseason... never have. Don't care.

But I see Derrick Rose played 20+ minutes as a starter. I know Jimmy Butler leaves a GIANT hole in the lineup... but there is no chance the Wolves are going to be a solid team if Rose is playing big minutes in the regular season. None.

He was worth taking a flyer on for a short spell last season. He was worth throwing out there as an energy guy who was trying to salvage his career. But the evidence against Rose being a viable NBA starter is stacked pretty deep at this point.

I'm getting anxious to see who is brought in to push Rose deep, deep down the roster.

[Lipoli390]

By the way, the momorere teams see the Wolves look pathetic this preseason, the Butler's value declines because it becomes increasingly clear that the Wolves have to augment the roster. As I've said repeatedly, it's highly unlikely Butler's value goes up from this point on. And there's more than a remote chance his value goes down. Meanwhile, watching T. Harris play tonight, I see his value going up.

We have to hope Pat Riley finally blinks and ups the ante for Butler before the regular season starts.

Or...a smart GM notices the difference between the Wolves with and without Butler, and realizes what an incredible difference maker he is. We're no smarter than many of the league's POBO's, and it's clear to most of us how much worse we are defensively without Butler.

Interesting point, LST. But I think GMs around the League and smarter than us, especially when it comes to understanding their own teams. So I'm sure they already know Butler's potential value to their respective teams, especially on the defensive end. But they probably don't have the same level of understanding or confidence in their understanding of the Wolves without Jimmy right now. Last night's game (and I would argue the 1st half of the Warriors game when it was starters versus starters) would likely confirm in their minds just how hapless the Wolves are without Jimmy. So if I'm Pat Riley, I'd call Glen Taylor and say the following:

"I know you've watched your team play so far this preseason. It's not pretty. I want you to know that we're ready to make a deal, but what Tom is asking for we just can't give. He want's our best wing whose only 25 and on a great team-friendly contract. He also wants us to include Adebayo, referred to by many as last year's steal of the draft. He also wants us to include or starting center, Whiteside, and one of our only 2 first round picks the next three years. Beyond that he also wants us to take the last 3 years of Gorgui's bloated contract. Giving you both Adebayo and Whiteside leaves us with Gorgui as our starting and only center. We made the playoffs last season without Jimmy and with the maturation of Richardson and Adebayo along with the return of Waiters we're confident we'll be a playoff team again without Jimmy. Of course we want Jimmy, but Tom's price is way too high under the circumstances."

Then Glen replies:

"OK, Pat, I hear you. What's your bottom line to get a deal done."

Pat replies:

"We're willing to include Richardson or Adebayo, but not both, and we're not willing to include our first round pick. We'd be willing to include Waiters if necessary to make the salaries work."

Glen replies:

"OK, I'll talk to Tom and see what I can do."

Glen to Thibodeau after the call:

"I just talked to Pat. He says your price is too high. He's willing to give us Richardson or Adebayo, but not both, and he won't part with his draft pick. He said he'd include Waiters in a package for salary purposes. Can you get any better offers from other teams? What are those offers?

After hearing Thibodeau's response on offers from other teams, depending on what he hears, Glen tells Thibodeau to accept one of those other offers or to do a deal with Miami for either Adebayo or Richardson, but to insist on getting Miami's 2019 1st rd pk no worse than top 12 protected.

If I were in Thibodeau's position, I'd response by telling Glen that I think I can get both Richardson and Adebayo if we hold out a little longer as Pat salavates more and more over the thought of having Butler, a pure Pat Riley type guy and his ticket to relevancy as a contender for a top 3 or 4 seed in the East. I'd suggest that we add Justin Patton if necessary to sweeten the deal. Unfortunately, I don't know that Glen has enough trust or patience in Thibodeau to go along with that. And I'm not even sure that approach would work.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Thank God I didn't stay up to watch this one!

Glad to see Okogie and KBD had decent outings.

[MikkeMan]

By the way, the momorere teams see the Wolves look pathetic this preseason, the Butler's value declines because it becomes increasingly clear that the Wolves have to augment the roster. As I've said repeatedly, it's highly unlikely Butler's value goes up from this point on. And there's more than a remote chance his value goes down. Meanwhile, watching T. Harris play tonight, I see his value going up.

We have to hope Pat Riley finally blinks and ups the ante for Butler before the regular season starts.

Or...a smart GM notices the difference between the Wolves with and without Butler, and realizes what an incredible difference maker he is. We're no smarter than many of the league's POBO's, and it's clear to most of us how much worse we are defensively without Butler.

I agree with LST. Our poor performance without Butler might lower return value in case there would be only one team wanting to trade for Butler. But that is not a case. When there is multiple teams trying to get him, just like LST wrote our poor performance should just give them reason to raise their offers that they can beat others.

Based on almost all advanced stats Jimmy Butler has been clearly top10 player during last two seasons. And top10 players should give good return even in case they have just one year left in their contract.

[Lipoli390]

By the way, the momorere teams see the Wolves look pathetic this preseason, the Butler's value declines because it becomes increasingly clear that the Wolves have to augment the roster. As I've said repeatedly, it's highly unlikely Butler's value goes up from this point on. And there's more than a remote chance his value goes down. Meanwhile, watching T. Harris play tonight, I see his value going up.

We have to hope Pat Riley finally blinks and ups the ante for Butler before the regular season starts.

Or...a smart GM notices the difference between the Wolves with and without Butler, and realizes what an incredible difference maker he is. We're no smarter than many of the league's POBO's, and it's clear to most of us how much worse we are defensively without Butler.

I agree with LST. Our poor performance without Butler might lower return value in case there would be only one team wanting to trade for Butler. But that is not a case. When there is multiple teams trying to get him, just like LST wrote our poor performance should just give them reason to raise their offers that they can beat others.

Based on almost all advanced stats Jimmy Butler has been clearly top10 player during last two seasons. And top10 players should give good return even in case they have just one year left in their contract.

I certainly hope you and LST are right!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Josh Okogie is one reason why I'm not so interested about Josh Richardson. I'm hoping Okogie will turn out similar or even better player than Richardson is.

We absolutely need a starting caliber wing that can defend and hit the 3 come back to us in the Butler trade. Whether that's Richardson or Covington or someone else, that has GOT to be a priority.

I like Okogie and his energy, but I'm not convinced he has the outside shot to be a regular starter, at least this season. And we already have two reluctant long range shooters back there with Wig and Teague.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

If Rose is a placeholder in the starting line up, i don't see why thibs wouldnt give okogie, diop, nunnally, or cj a look playing with the starters. Unless thibs is targeting a bench wing and depth, so rose can start all season. Im already tired of the teague and rose iso 1:4 offense.

Watching rose and teague shut everyone out of the offense is an eyesore. Why would anyone look to pass when they know they aren't getting the ball back?

I really like the kat/wiggs 2 man game. Wiggs might be our best post entry passer and kat shoukd be getting more touches as the first option.

[Monster]

Josh Okogie is one reason why I'm not so interested about Josh Richardson. I'm hoping Okogie will turn out similar or even better player than Richardson is.

We absolutely need a starting caliber wing that can defend and hit the 3 come back to us in the Butler trade. Whether that's Richardson or Covington or someone else, that has GOT to be a priority.

I like Okogie and his energy, but I'm not convinced he has the outside shot to be a regular starter, at least this season. And we already have two reluctant long range shooters back there with Wig and Teague.

Let's just say hypothetically okogie becomes a good player a legit NBA starter. If we had Richardson and Wiggins doesn't progress that makes it much easier to consider dumping him for basically nothing.

The Wolves don't have a future PF on the roster if they could get one of those I'd be plenty interested. On the other hand having a giant hole there with Taj a FA could be an advantage next summer with a younger worthwhile player seeing an opportunity.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Josh Okogie is one reason why I'm not so interested about Josh Richardson. I'm hoping Okogie will turn out similar or even better player than Richardson is.

We absolutely need a starting caliber wing that can defend and hit the 3 come back to us in the Butler trade. Whether that's Richardson or Covington or someone else, that has GOT to be a priority.

I like Okogie and his energy, but I'm not convinced he has the outside shot to be a regular starter, at least this season. And we already have two reluctant long range shooters back there with Wig and Teague.

Let's just say hypothetically okogie becomes a good player a legit NBA starter. If we had Richardson and Wiggins doesn't progress that makes it much easier to consider dumping him for basically nothing.

The Wolves don't have a future PF on the roster if they could get one of those I'd be plenty interested. On the other hand having a giant hole there with Taj a FA could be an advantage next summer with a younger worthwhile player seeing an opportunity.

It just seems like PF is an easier position to fill these days, especially since we don't need a bunch of points out of that position. Wings that can defend and shoot are super, super valuable.

[Monster]

Josh Okogie is one reason why I'm not so interested about Josh Richardson. I'm hoping Okogie will turn out similar or even better player than Richardson is.

We absolutely need a starting caliber wing that can defend and hit the 3 come back to us in the Butler trade. Whether that's Richardson or Covington or someone else, that has GOT to be a priority.

I like Okogie and his energy, but I'm not convinced he has the outside shot to be a regular starter, at least this season. And we already have two reluctant long range shooters back there with Wig and Teague.

Let's just say hypothetically okogie becomes a good player a legit NBA starter. If we had Richardson and Wiggins doesn't progress that makes it much easier to consider dumping him for basically nothing.

The Wolves don't have a future PF on the roster if they could get one of those I'd be plenty interested. On the other hand having a giant hole there with Taj a FA could be an advantage next summer with a younger worthwhile player seeing an opportunity.

It just seems like PF is an easier position to fill these days, especially since we don't need a bunch of points out of that position. Wings that can defend and shoot are super, super valuable.

Agreed. It's also why Butler has plenty of value.