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Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=27185

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Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:14 am
by Jester1534
At the end of day if Kat and Wiggins don't take the next step none of this matters anyway. Why can't we just enjoy this off season. Have fun with it and just enjoy the next two years.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:17 am
by TheFuture


lol


Care to elaborate?

Sure, we are in the playoffs 1000000%. We have to, and we will. But I don't care about just making the 2nd round or even the damn WCF. You're kidding yourselves if this has any relevency to making it any further in the next few years. These moves do nothing more than get us talked about as a pretender. We aren't a destination, never will be.. accept that. This is akin to a job saving, owner appeasing off-season. Nothing more. The blinders are strong here.

Edit: before others jump on me about, "what would you do". I'd continue to grow organically. Something we almost got right after 10+ years. Call on the previous 10 years all you want, but it was damn near there. Add a few pieces this offseason, draft another top 10 prospect this year, and wait for everything to grow while we controlled the whole damn team for 4+ more years. This whole situation is too damn nearsighted for me..


Do you see the other moves these teams in the West are making? The playoffs weren't happening next year just by running it back with a draft pick and a new pool of bench vets. Who knows how long it takes to make the playoffs without Butler and then that's flirting with Towns, Wiggins and Lavine demanding out. Acting like growing organically means contention automatically is putting the cart way before the horse. It's a nice concept. The performance of the team this past year should have seriously put some doubt in people's minds that continuing down the same path was guaranteed for success especially at a championship level. The development just wasn't there to be comfortable running it back. The odds of needing to start rebuilding yet again were just as high as ever becoming a contender.


Except for controlling all of them for another 4-6 years.. plus definite improvements, more picks, higher cap space, etc. etc. not too mention The current league studs being past prime..

So if we do hypotheticals - what happens if we falter in 2 years (which we will, hell it took LeBron, Wade, and Bosh two seasons to win AGAiNST the old Spurs as they couldn't even beat Dirk in year one), and Butler leaves and Teague opts out, then we are left barren. I'd bet KAT and Wiggins are much more prone to jet/become disgruntled at that point..

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:23 am
by AbeVigodaLive
Under your previous "organic" growth plan... you were banking on progressive growth from Wiggins and KAT.

So let's say that happens and Teague and Butler bolt. Ok.

Wouldn't the Wolves still have two of the league's better (best) players entering their prime? Doesn't sound like the worst scenario to me. At least half the league would be happy to have that problem.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:27 am
by Monster
So...Thibs and Layden are selling out for a just playoff team for the next couple years? Eh maybe.

Have they done some other things to look toward the future?

Drafted a David Patton a high upside kid they clearly liked quite a bit.

Traded Rubio and got a first round pick that will likely he coming next year when they don't have one from the Payne trade.

The youngest PG on the roster Tyus is still here. Remember when he was getting moved because Lucas was the 3rd PG? Awesome stuff.

The Wolves currently have zero players on their roster over 30 or older. That is likely to change as they add some vets but unless they really go in on a guy like Millsap they won't be huge parts of the team.

Thibs demanded a G-league team.

They haven't let Bazz go yet.

They could sign some young FAs like a Ben Mclemore and develop them into something worthwhile.

So it's possible that this will still be a young team that is being developed all while possibly being a legit contender. They haven't just dumped every other young asset to get older more experienced players. Every time they have let a worthwhile player that's young go they have gotten something for them. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Dieng and got something back. Lol

I would have loved to see all the guys grow together but what they have done is actually pretty impressive to me and they aren't done. They are doing this the way the good teams do. Oh man what alternate dimension are we in? I haven't been thisbnervouaband excited in a good way about the offseason and FA ever.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:29 am
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
TheFuture wrote:


lol


Care to elaborate?

Sure, we are in the playoffs 1000000%. We have to, and we will. But I don't care about just making the 2nd round or even the damn WCF. You're kidding yourselves if this has any relevency to making it any further in the next few years. These moves do nothing more than get us talked about as a pretender. We aren't a destination, never will be.. accept that. This is akin to a job saving, owner appeasing off-season. Nothing more. The blinders are strong here.

Edit: before others jump on me about, "what would you do". I'd continue to grow organically. Something we almost got right after 10+ years. Call on the previous 10 years all you want, but it was damn near there. Add a few pieces this offseason, draft another top 10 prospect this year, and wait for everything to grow while we controlled the whole damn team for 4+ more years. This whole situation is too damn nearsighted for me..


Do you see the other moves these teams in the West are making? The playoffs weren't happening next year just by running it back with a draft pick and a new pool of bench vets. Who knows how long it takes to make the playoffs without Butler and then that's flirting with Towns, Wiggins and Lavine demanding out. Acting like growing organically means contention automatically is putting the cart way before the horse. It's a nice concept. The performance of the team this past year should have seriously put some doubt in people's minds that continuing down the same path was guaranteed for success especially at a championship level. The development just wasn't there to be comfortable running it back. The odds of needing to start rebuilding yet again were just as high as ever becoming a contender.

Except for controlling all of them for another 4-6 years.. plus definite improvements, more picks, higher cap space, etc. etc. not too mention The current league studs being past prime..

So if we do hypotheticals - what happens if we falter in 2 years (which we will, hell it took LeBron, Wade, and Bosh two seasons to win AGAiNST the old Spurs), and Butler leaves and Teague opts out, then we are left barren. I'd bet KAT and Wiggins are much more prone to jet/become disgruntled at that point..

The arrogance of saying we will fail before this team even steps on a court is through the roof. We have 2 top 15 players and when Butler's deal is up there won't be a contender in the league who can sign him to a max and put a better team on the floor than we can. There's not a team in the league who can keep 4-6 good young players on the same team that isn't paying 1 billion dollars in luxury tax. You're alternative path for this franchise is just not realistic on any level. Cap space - none starting next summer. Keeping 4-6 good young players together for a decade - never happened. Definite improvements - not definite in the slightest/a complete shot in the dark guess on your part. More picks - great, how many of those have we had for the last decade (answer: more than a few)? Talk about a pipe dream and you are talking as if it were a definite reality. I call bullshit. That plan is even shakier than what we are doing now and most of it isn't even realistic.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:30 am
by TheFuture
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Under your previous "organic" growth plan... you were banking on progressive growth from Wiggins and KAT.

So let's say that happens and Teague and Butler bolt. Ok.

Wouldn't the Wolves still have two of the league's better (best) players entering their prime? Doesn't sound like the worst scenario to me. At least half the league would be happy to have that problem.


It is great, except you're talking about two players seeing playoffs, unable to get over the hump, and looking to jettison when the other core players take off as we have no young talent brewing, no cap room, and we are not some destination like GSW or Cavs for the time being for top ring chasers.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:30 am
by BloopOracle
monsterpile wrote:So...Thibs and Layden are selling out for a just playoff team for the next couple years? Eh maybe.

Have they done some other things to look toward the future?

Drafted a David Patton a high upside kid they clearly liked quite a bit.

Traded Rubio and got a first round pick that will likely he coming next year when they don't have one from the Payne trade.

The youngest PG on the roster Tyus is still here. Remember when he was getting moved because Lucas was the 3rd PG? Awesome stuff.

The Wolves currently have zero players on their roster over 30 or older. That is likely to change as they add some vets but unless they really go in on a guy like Millsap they won't be huge parts of the team.

Thibs demanded a G-league team.

They haven't let Bazz go yet.

They could sign some young FAs like a Ben Mclemore and develop them into something worthwhile.

So it's possible that this will still be a young team that is being developed all while possibly being a legit contender. They haven't just dumped every other young asset to get older more experienced players. Every time they have let a worthwhile player that's young go they have gotten something for them. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Dieng and got something back. Lol

I would have loved to see all the guys grow together but what they have done is actually pretty impressive to me and they aren't done. They are doing this the way the good teams do. Oh man what alternate dimension are we in? I haven't been thisbnervouaband excited in a good way about the offseason and FA ever.


Pretty crazy that we went from being the Cleveland Browns of the NBA to fighting amongst ourselves over which premiere free agents we should sign in only 2 years lol

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:40 am
by TheFuture
khans2k5 wrote:
TheFuture wrote:

Do you see the other moves these teams in the West are making? The playoffs weren't happening next year just by running it back with a draft pick and a new pool of bench vets. Who knows how long it takes to make the playoffs without Butler and then that's flirting with Towns, Wiggins and Lavine demanding out. Acting like growing organically means contention automatically is putting the cart way before the horse. It's a nice concept. The performance of the team this past year should have seriously put some doubt in people's minds that continuing down the same path was guaranteed for success especially at a championship level. The development just wasn't there to be comfortable running it back. The odds of needing to start rebuilding yet again were just as high as ever becoming a contender.


Except for controlling all of them for another 4-6 years.. plus definite improvements, more picks, higher cap space, etc. etc. not too mention The current league studs being past prime..

So if we do hypotheticals - what happens if we falter in 2 years (which we will, hell it took LeBron, Wade, and Bosh two seasons to win AGAiNST the old Spurs), and Butler leaves and Teague opts out, then we are left barren. I'd bet KAT and Wiggins are much more prone to jet/become disgruntled at that point..


The arrogance of saying we will fail before this team even steps on a court is through the roof. We have 2 top 15 players and when Butler's deal is up there won't be a contender in the league who can sign him to a max and put a better team on the floor than we can. There's not a team in the league who can keep 4-6 good young players on the same team that isn't paying 1 billion dollars in luxury tax. You're alternative path for this franchise is just not realistic on any level. Cap space - none starting next summer. Keeping 4-6 good young players together for a decade - never happened. Definite improvements - not definite in the slightest/a complete shot in the dark guess on your part. More picks - great, how many of those have we had for the last decade (answer: more than a few)? Talk about a pipe dream and you are talking as if it were a definite reality. I call bullshit. That plan is even shakier than what we are doing now and most of it isn't even realistic.


Keeping 4-6 young can happen, especially if the window aligns. If not, you flip players for other players. Happens every damn year.. as for Cap space, we had it this summer, build a damn bench and get to the playoffs first before taking drastic measures .. I'm not insinuating that our team is the next GSW, I'm insinuating that it is fruitless to go into any arms race with them right now. They hit the lottery. A once in a damn lifetime situation. People act like folding it up and accepting the inevitable is stupid. No, that is reality when you're trying to mesh two 22 year olds who haven't sniffed playoff competition with an all star in zbutler and another new above average pg in Teague and expect any competition between A team with 4 all stars, the Spurs, or LeBron.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:49 am
by TheFuture
For the record, I would have sat with Rubio, Dunn, LaVine, Wiggins, KAT, Dieng, Bjelicia, #7, used our 20 mil cap on the bench, matched shabazz at anything under 7 mil, and fought for a 6-8 seed. We will see what happens.

Re: Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:51 am
by Monster
TheFuture wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Under your previous "organic" growth plan... you were banking on progressive growth from Wiggins and KAT.

So let's say that happens and Teague and Butler bolt. Ok.

Wouldn't the Wolves still have two of the league's better (best) players entering their prime? Doesn't sound like the worst scenario to me. At least half the league would be happy to have that problem.


It is great, except you're talking about two players seeing playoffs, unable to get over the hump, and looking to jettison when the other core players take off as we have no young talent brewing, no cap room, and we are not some destination like GSW or Cavs for the time being for top ring chasers.


No young talent brewing? So there was a flip that switched and now we are incapable of that happening or something?

Tyus
Patton
Young FA's we could sign
G-league
Undrafted guys or an international dude.

Why can't we do that while being a really good team? Other other good teams do it why can't we?

Oh the Cavs and GS were so sexy like 2-4 years ago...not really it wasn't that long ago those teams were basketball wastelands.
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