GDT: Firing on all Pistons.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I can understand and empathize with how you present your argument, Q. The numbers do show that our starters are struggling mightily -- and until very recently, the bench didn't look like they belonged on an NBA floor either -- and the reason for it is unknown to me. I don't have that answer. All I can say is that from my view, at some point in the game -- usually the third quarter -- the players stop executing Thibs' gameplan and everything turns to shit. I have never had a problem with a well-thought, well-supported argument, though.

It's the other takes that are based on close to nothing that get exhausting. "Players hate Thibs" (no current evidence supports this), "Thibs is the reason for second half collapses because he practiced them too hard" (no current evidence supports this), "Thibs' sideline antics are negatively impacting the players" (no current evidence supports this -- it doesn't seem to bother them in first halves, by the way), "Thibs is the reason for player regression" (but never player improvement), "Thibs was a terrible hire" (despite him being just 23 games into his new job).

Why the fuck are these still talking points? Every time this board gets on to an anti-Thibs discussion, this board ends up giving the players a "get out of jail free" card, essentially. The NBA is, and has always been, a players' league. Anyone that tells you differently is lacking knowledge of the game or is firmly in denial. It's a lot easier to throw shade at the coach than it is to blame your favorite players -- the same players you spend money on to watch for entertainment. It couldn't possibly be their fault.

[WildWolf2813]

I can understand and empathize with how you present your argument, Q. The numbers do show that our starters are struggling mightily -- and until very recently, the bench didn't look like they belonged on an NBA floor either -- and the reason for it is unknown to me. I don't have that answer. All I can say is that from my view, at some point in the game -- usually the third quarter -- the players stop executing Thibs' gameplan and everything turns to shit. I have never had a problem with a well-thought, well-supported argument, though.

It's the other takes that are based on close to nothing that get exhausting. "Players hate Thibs" (no current evidence supports this), "Thibs is the reason for second half collapses because he practiced them too hard" (no current evidence supports this), "Thibs' sideline antics are negatively impacting the players" (no current evidence supports this -- it doesn't seem to bother them in first halves, by the way), "Thibs is the reason for player regression" (but never player improvement), "Thibs was a terrible hire" (despite him being just 23 games into his new job).

Why the fuck are these still talking points? Every time this board gets on to an anti-Thibs discussion, this board ends up giving the players a "get out of jail free" card, essentially. The NBA is, and has always been, a players' league. Anyone that tells you differently is lacking knowledge of the game or is firmly in denial. It's a lot easier to throw shade at the coach than it is to blame your favorite players -- the same players you spend money on to watch for entertainment. It couldn't possibly be their fault.

While I don't think Thibs has done them any favors, these players are sorry. You can't give these players any sort of praise because they don't know how to deal with it.


Whoever wants to blame Thibs, fine, but for the ones who do: who's gonna save this team now? He's not going anywhere

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

LaVine on Thibs: "It's not about him. It's about us. We're the ones on the court. He puts in the effort. We're not executing."

My respect for LaVine increases with each game.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Another horrible game...glad I opted to give my tickets to my son-in-law and go to a fun party instead. I haven't glanced at the thread, so I don't know what the board sentiment (or maybe sediment is more appropriate in this case) is, but it can't be too positive after getting blown out by 17 at home by a marginal Eastern team...this has to be the low point of an already dismal season.

Looking at the boxscore, I see that the reserves didn't maintain their recent good play, and the backup PGs that some want to give the keys to had a whopping 1 assist in 25 minutes...Dunn has zero. Also, I don't think we are going to win many games when the most threes are taken by sharpshooter Kris Dunn...he was 0 for 4. Thibs must have been frustrated with the starters though, because only two of them played over 30 minutes.

I'm trying to find something I can cheer for, and I have decided to take a more positive attitude and compare the success of Thibs' first year to Rambis' first. I'm happy to report that Thibs is kicking Rambis' butt after 23 games 6 wins to 3...Go Thibs!

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

I tell you what, if D'Antoni was our coach we would still be a bad defensive team. But we would run teams off the floor. This team can be much better offensively that it currently is. We can't score on any team with respectable defense and obviously we can't stop them on the other end.

[TheFuture]

LaVine on Thibs: "It's not about him. It's about us. We're the ones on the court. He puts in the effort. We're not executing."

My respect for LaVine increases with each game.

I agree with the LaVine love.

I question you on other areas.

Shouldnt failing to execute on both offense and defense have some reflection on the coaching staff? Lack of respect? Failure to adapt and teach?

What's most shocking is that this team lays an egg in the 3rd every game. After a halftime where the coach should be corralling them.

Instead, they come out playing like someone just tore them a new one. In my opinion they are playing too tight, are too afraid to make mistakes therefore they make many, and Thibs offense falters after other teams make halftime adjustments because it flat out sucks. Always has, and still does. And I'm still waiting on the defensive improvement, because the guys all look like rookies again out there.

[TheFuture]

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2016/12/t-wolves-defense-bad-or-historically-bad

[60WinTim]

It's impossible to know how much blame can be laid at Thibs' feet for the players not executing properly. But here is one thing I absolutely know. Until Kat and Wiggins realize their first priority is to create a good shot for a teammate, we will continue to suck.

The players have no joy because they rarely touch the ball on the offensive end. If Kat and Wigs put half the effort into creating shots for teammates as they do creating their own shots, we would get much better shots, every one would feel as though they are part of the team, and then we would see what the defense is like with players who are engaged.

As an aside: as talented as Wiggins is, he plays the game like a 6th man. It would be ballsy, but that's the move I would make if I were Thibs. Wiggins off the bench.

[Edit: LST - must have been a GREAT party because it affected your math. We lost by 27! And it was eff'n embarrassing. ]

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

It's impossible to know how much blame can be laid at Thibs' feet for the players not executing properly. But here is one thing I absolutely know. Until Kat and Wiggins realize their first priority is to create a good shot for a teammate, we will continue to suck.

The players have no joy because they rarely touch the ball on the offensive end. If Kat and Wigs put half the effort into creating shots for teammates as they do creating their own shots, we would get much better shots, every one would feel as though they are part of the team, and then we would see what the defense is like with players who are engaged.

As an aside: as talented as Wiggins is, he plays the game like a 6th man. It would be ballsy, but that's the move I would make if I were Thibs. Wiggins off the bench.

[Edit: LST - must have been a GREAT party because it affected your math. We lost by 27! And it was eff'n embarrassing. ]

Now I'm embarrassed...and even more depressed. This has to be the low point of what is rapidly becoming the most disappointing season in the history of this hapless franchise.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I tell you what, if D'Antoni was our coach we would still be a bad defensive team. But we would run teams off the floor. This team can be much better offensively that it currently is. We can't score on any team with respectable defense and obviously we can't stop them on the other end.

Not sure it's possible to run teams off the floor anymore. Teams are so much better at getting back defensively (well, except us I guess). If you watched Detroit, Drummond was the only guy that would ever go for offensive rebounds and even he would hustle back quickly if he wasn't in good position.

Again, the stat-heads in front offices have done the math and concluded that it costs a team more points than they can earn by chasing O-boards. That doesn't mean if you are in the direct area of the basket you don't go for it, but you absolutely do not want your perimeter guys following their shot or crashing the glass. They need to get back the second a shot goes up.