PorkChop wrote:It's pretty natural to bring up Ricky when the team is losing since he remains the one constant thru all these losing seasons. Making excuses for Rubio over and over is no better than bitching about his flaws costing us games.
Actually Glen Taylor's been the big constant throughout the last 12 years.
but if you guys wanted guys to take the heat off of the Big Three, isn't that Thibs' job? And didn't he react to the lack of a bench (which would absolutely take pressure off the starters) by signing Brandon Rush, Cole Aldrich, John Lucas III and Jordan Hill?
PorkChop wrote:By all accounts everyone on here loved the off-season moves. For some reason or another.
I hated pretty much everything other than maybe Aldrich. I wanted Ian Clark badly on this team. I wanted the team to draft Hield or Sabonis instead of Dunn. I didn't wanna see Dieng receive a contract extension. I wasn't enamored by what Thibs /Layden did this summer.
PorkChop wrote:By all accounts everyone on here loved the off-season moves. For some reason or another.
If I remeber right you weren't a big fan of the moves. :)
I still like the offseason in general. Why? The only FA that plays and is productive (Aldrich) is the only guy they gave a contract to for more than this season. They didn't lock themselves into a guy for a bunch of money they didn't need or ended up sucking. Drafting Dunn wasn't my guy but I've seen enough defensively I can be ok with that one And so alsoways liked Dunn's floor as a prospect to a certain extent. I said before the season started the signings were solid but so admired they probably could have used someone a little better than the guys they got but they got good value contract guys. Was it a great offseason? Probably not but they also didn't screw anything up when it came to signing guys. I'm pretty happy about that.
Camden wrote:Q, I can think of several clutch, or practically game-winning plays for each of our big three and I'll list them at the bottom, BUT that's not to discredit your argument in regards to Rubio. He has made *some* big plays when they're needed.
Just a thought, but I feel like there are a lot of Wolves fans that are just tired of seeing the same formula. Multiple potent scorers (Love, Pekovic, Martin, Young, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns) led by a non-scoring threat floor general (Rubio) and no rim protection (???). We have watched this formula for almost a decade and the results have been the same for whatever reason. I can say for myself that I fit this billet. As a fan/consumer and (educated) spectator of the sport, I'm just ready for a change. I find myself legitimately surprised and excited whenever Rubio makes a simple layup. While he does other things that I enjoy seeing, such as his passing, that feeling has just grown old for me.
Towns:
- Game-saving blocked shot to force overtime against Orlando.
- Game-winning right hook to beat Portland.
- Game-clinching layup to beat Golden State. Set the screen for Wiggins, slipped the screen when the double-team came, received the pass just inside the three-point line and attacked the basket. Converted and got fouled, made the free throw.
Wiggins:
- Game-winning assist to beat Oklahoma City last season. Attacked the paint, got Westbrook to collapse from the perimeter, kicked it out to Rubio right in the shooter's pocket and he drilled it. Gotta give Wiggins a lot of credit there.
- Game-winning and game-clinching buckets against Chicago last season. Post-up, right hand hook after a couple dribbles to re-take the lead with 1:30 left. Later, he got a loose ball, spun in the paint and got a layup to go to put us up once again. And then with about 0:20 left, he drilled a pull-up mid-range jumper going left to ice the game.
- Game-tying three-pointer earlier this season against Charlotte. Dribbled the ball from half court to the right slot and pulled up, nailed it.
LaVine:
- Down six, with under 1:00 left to play, he drilled back-to-back deep three-pointers to tie the game against Utah last season.
- Game-tying three-pointer against Washington last season. In overtime, LaVine with the ball at the top of the key, passed to Dieng at the left slot, got it right back, took a dribble and nailed the jumper over Gortat.
Post of the year material. Check out this year's "Coolies" to see how it rates.
I have to agree...great work, Cam!
I'm still on board with Q's point though...that Ricky has been as productive as any Wolves player when the game is on the line. Kevin Love was an enormously productive player while he was here, but he only had one successful game-ending play during his entire tenure...his 3-pointer to beat the Clippers in OT. But lost in his heroics was the fact that the Wolves don't even get to OT if Ricky doesn't hit the big 3-pointer from the right corner with no time left on the clock in regulation. The shot was even more remarkable because my recollection was he was something like 0-8 before that shot!
Looks like this thread has devolved again into a debate about Ricky. I didn't see the game, but looking at the box score I saw a fairly familiar 0-5 in Ricky's scoring column. I share Pork's fatigue with a PG who can't establish himself as a scoring threat.
But again, if we're looking for primary reasons for why we lost this last game, we have to look first and foremost at the performance of those on this team who are EXPECTED to score -- namely our core three and our glue-guy C/PF, Gorgui. When one of our core three -- in this case Towns -- makes only 3 of his 15 shots (20%), including 0-6 behind the arc, we should expect to lose. Add to that the fact that Wiggins missed 4 of 7 free throws while Zach missed 2 of his 3 free throw attempts. Then we have our starting PF (Gorgui) hitting only 38% of his field goal attempts. We simply can't have one of our core three missing 12 of 15 shots and expect to win. And our two wing "stars" can't make only 4 of 10 free throws if we're going to beat comparably talented teams.
Yes, I'd love to upgrade our PG position with someone who can run the offense, defend AND score. But I'm more concerned about the offensive inconsistency we're seeing from our core three, including Andrew's inconsistent effort. I remained concerned about Andrew's continuing unreliability from the free-throw line. And I'm even more concerned about our poor team defense, which is attributable to the entire team. We're not going to be able to replace Ricky with a top PG who can shoot. Instead, if we're going to seriously upgrade that position, we're going to have to count on Dunn's development. Until then, I'm growing tired of the lack of consistency from our core three. Yes, they're young, but I'm tired of the youth excuse as well.
I liked our off season moves. Mainly because the all guys that we signed were in playoff teams last season and they were signed to play lesser roles in Wolves team. So for sure, I expected that they would perform well enough for us as bench guys.
Cole Aldrich played 13.3 minutes per game as a backup for 53 win Clippers team with 5 starts when Jordan missed games because of injury. So far he has averaged less minutes for Wolves. Aldrich has been quite OK but I guess that not playing in team with CP3 has affected dramatically his offensive opportunities.
Brandon Rush played 14.7 minutes per game as a backup for 73 win Warriors team with 25 games as starter when Harrison Barnes missed games because of injury. Rush has played in just 11 games for Wolves and he has shot really bad.
Jordan HIll played 20.7 minutes per game as a backup for 45 win Pacers team with 11 starts when Mahinmi was sidelined because of injury. So far he has played just couple of minutes in 5 games as a Wolf. I thought that he would play at least more than Payne.
I'm still on board with Q's point though...that Ricky has been as productive as any Wolves player when the game is on the line. Kevin Love was an enormously productive player while he was here, but he only had one successful game-ending play during his entire tenure...his 3-pointer to beat the Clippers in OT. But lost in his heroics was the fact that the Wolves don't even get to OT if Ricky doesn't hit the big 3-pointer from the right corner with no time left on the clock in regulation. The shot was even more remarkable because my recollection was he was something like 0-8 before that shot!
That was Rubio's 15th game as a pro...
He was 0 - 10 before that shot.
Something else stands out about Rubio at that time... he shot the ball a lot more. In his first 21 games as a pro... he took at least 8 field goals 17 times. And that game was in a stretch where he took at least 10 shots in 9 of 10 games.
Rubio has played 29 games this season. He has shot more than 7 shots only 4 times.
lipoli390 wrote:Looks like this thread has devolved again into a debate about Ricky. I didn't see the game, but looking at the box score I saw a fairly familiar 0-5 in Ricky's scoring column. I share Pork's fatigue with a PG who can't establish himself as a scoring threat.
But again, if we're looking for primary reasons for why we lost this last game, we have to look first and foremost at the performance of those on this team who are EXPECTED to score -- namely our core three and our glue-guy C/PF, Gorgui. When one of our core three -- in this case Towns -- makes only 3 of his 15 shots (20%), including 0-6 behind the arc, we should expect to lose. Add to that the fact that Wiggins missed 4 of 7 free throws while Zach missed 2 of his 3 free throw attempts. Then we have our starting PF (Gorgui) hitting only 38% of his field goal attempts. We simply can't have one of our core three missing 12 of 15 shots and expect to win. And our two wing "stars" can't make only 4 of 10 free throws if we're going to beat comparably talented teams.
Yes, I'd love to upgrade our PG position with someone who can run the offense, defend AND score. But I'm more concerned about the offensive inconsistency we're seeing from our core three, including Andrew's inconsistent effort. I remained concerned about Andrew's continuing unreliability from the free-throw line. And I'm even more concerned about our poor team defense, which is attributable to the entire team. We're not going to be able to replace Ricky with a top PG who can shoot. Instead, if we're going to seriously upgrade that position, we're going to have to count on Dunn's development. Until then, I'm growing tired of the lack of consistency from our core three. Yes, they're young, but I'm tired of the youth excuse as well.
While I agree about much of this... that's just too much pressure on 21 year old kids.
Have a bad game... or even mediocre offensive game... lose. Many teams have a bench guy who can do more than expected to steal a win or three during the season. The Wolves don't even have 5 starters capable of doing that.
If Rubio is absolved of getting blamed for bad losses when he's 0 - 5 and lit up defensively... it's time for us to stop giving him so much praise when he goes 1 - 4 and the Wolves win because Towns goes 13 - 22 fg. My primary problem with the Rubio discussions for 6 years now is that he gets his cake and eats it too in the aforementioned scenarios.
