Minnesota Sports Forum

60WinTim wrote:While touching on more than just Wiggins, here is some commentary from David Thorpe.

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/reminiscing-ratke-chatting-espns-david-thorpe

Thorpe panders a bit, as he makes a living training NBA players, so he will always look at things with a pretty positive spin, knowing that any one of these guys could be a future client.

That being said, I thought the most important comments he made were his observations on playing time and how many minutes are enough for a young guy to develop. In what has become a lost year in terms of Wins and Losses, I really think Flip needs to take the long view in terms of Drew's minutes. He should be averaging 25-30 per game max IMO, not because he can't handle more, but because it's reasonable to assume that there is a cumulative effect over time. If he's puts in 2,500 minutes as a 19-year old rookie, how worn is the tread on his tires by the time he's 26 or 27? LeBron has already lost a step (especially defensively) because of the load he's been carrying all these years, and he's still under 30.

Keeping Wiggins healthy for the long-haul is just as important as his development this season. They don't play nearly as many games or minutes in Europe, yet professionals from those leagues come to the U.S. all time with fully developed skill-sets. Playing, say, 2,000 minutes instead of. 2,500 is not going to make a difference in terms of skill development.

I thought Thorpe's comments on Wiggins not being close to the best defender on a bad defensive team was interesting... considering the narrative we've been reading on here.

But Thorpe, like the rest of us, seems to think he has a chance to be elite defensively... eventually.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I thought Thorpe's comments on Wiggins not being close to the best defender on a bad defensive team was interesting... considering the narrative we've been reading on here.

But Thorpe, like the rest of us, seems to think he has a chance to be elite defensively... eventually.

Well, I'm honestly not sure who is better other than Rubio. It's not that Wiggins is a lockdown All-NBA defender yet. He definitely has a ways to go still, but I think he is definitely the best wing defender on the team and probably the best overall defender in a pure one-on-one setting.

I think what I'm having trouble with in this discussion is in trying to figure out what really is the point being made? We have a segment telling us how Drew is struggling, and how his numbers don't compare well with other players who became stars. But they don't want to say definitively that this means he can't become a great player. I can say with confidence that we all watch the games, we all see most of the same things. We know when Drew or Zach have a bad stretch vs a good one. It's pretty apparent that neither are going to have a Kevin Durant rookie year.

The question is so what?

None of this has changed my opinion that Drew is going to be an all star player in this league, and I'm not shy about telling you so. But I don't think we were 15 games into the season before the downer brigade started to piss and moan about Drew's play and deficiencies. They come on here and ramble about things that everyone can plainly see. But they won't stick their neck out and tell us anything that we can't see. If you think that Drew's early offensive struggles are relative to his career path, tell me that. If you think he's too passive to ever become an alpha dog for a contending team, tell me that. But what I'm already tired of is you using the rest of the group as a sounding board for your incessant negative replaying of the season so far. We're all frustrated as TWolve fans. Of course we're anxious about the development of our young players. It's really all that matters at this point. But it's all out there for us to see.

If you want to be compelling instead of just complaining, tell me what it means in your opinion. And don't hide behind some caveat or disclaimer.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think what I'm having trouble with in this discussion is in trying to figure out what really is the point being made? We have a segment telling us how Drew is struggling, and how his numbers don't compare well with other players who became stars. But they don't want to say definitively that this means he can't become a great player. I can say with confidence that we all watch the games, we all see most of the same things. We know when Drew or Zach have a bad stretch vs a good one. It's pretty apparent that neither are going to have a Kevin Durant rookie year.

The question is so what?

None of this has changed my opinion that Drew is going to be an all star player in this league, and I'm not shy about telling you so. But I don't think we were 15 games into the season before the downer brigade started to piss and moan about Drew's play and deficiencies. They come on here and ramble about things that everyone can plainly see. But they won't stick their neck out and tell us anything that we can't see. If you think that Drew's early offensive struggles are relative to his career path, tell me that. If you think he's too passive to ever become an alpha dog for a contending team, tell me that. But what I'm already tired of is you using the rest of the group as a sounding board for your incessant negative replaying of the season so far. We're all frustrated as TWolve fans. Of course we're anxious about the development of our young players. It's really all that matters at this point. But it's all out there for us to see.

If you want to be compelling instead of just complaining, tell me what it means in your opinion. And don't hide behind some caveat or disclaimer.

They want to be able to say "I told you so" if he sucks with the option of still being able to cheer for him if he is good. Having your cake and eating it to in some sort of strange way.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think what I'm having trouble with in this discussion is in trying to figure out what really is the point being made? We have a segment telling us how Drew is struggling, and how his numbers don't compare well with other players who became stars. But they don't want to say definitively that this means he can't become a great player. I can say with confidence that we all watch the games, we all see most of the same things. We know when Drew or Zach have a bad stretch vs a good one. It's pretty apparent that neither are going to have a Kevin Durant rookie year.

The question is so what?

None of this has changed my opinion that Drew is going to be an all star player in this league, and I'm not shy about telling you so. But I don't think we were 15 games into the season before the downer brigade started to piss and moan about Drew's play and deficiencies. They come on here and ramble about things that everyone can plainly see. But they won't stick their neck out and tell us anything that we can't see. If you think that Drew's early offensive struggles are relative to his career path, tell me that. If you think he's too passive to ever become an alpha dog for a contending team, tell me that. But what I'm already tired of is you using the rest of the group as a sounding board for your incessant negative replaying of the season so far. We're all frustrated as TWolve fans. Of course we're anxious about the development of our young players. It's really all that matters at this point. But it's all out there for us to see.

If you want to be compelling instead of just complaining, tell me what it means in your opinion. And don't hide behind some caveat or disclaimer.

Thank you Cool for being the board arbiter for what and what cannot be discussed here.

Just because people don't agree with you... doesn't mean there's any reason to dismiss what they're saying. You see the same guys do it repeatedly on here. And it's usually simply because somebody doesn't see the same things with the same perpetually rosy glasses.

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think what I'm having trouble with in this discussion is in trying to figure out what really is the point being made? We have a segment telling us how Drew is struggling, and how his numbers don't compare well with other players who became stars. But they don't want to say definitively that this means he can't become a great player. I can say with confidence that we all watch the games, we all see most of the same things. We know when Drew or Zach have a bad stretch vs a good one. It's pretty apparent that neither are going to have a Kevin Durant rookie year.

The question is so what?

None of this has changed my opinion that Drew is going to be an all star player in this league, and I'm not shy about telling you so. But I don't think we were 15 games into the season before the downer brigade started to piss and moan about Drew's play and deficiencies. They come on here and ramble about things that everyone can plainly see. But they won't stick their neck out and tell us anything that we can't see. If you think that Drew's early offensive struggles are relative to his career path, tell me that. If you think he's too passive to ever become an alpha dog for a contending team, tell me that. But what I'm already tired of is you using the rest of the group as a sounding board for your incessant negative replaying of the season so far. We're all frustrated as TWolve fans. Of course we're anxious about the development of our young players. It's really all that matters at this point. But it's all out there for us to see.

If you want to be compelling instead of just complaining, tell me what it means in your opinion. And don't hide behind some caveat or disclaimer.

They want to be able to say "I told you so" if he sucks with the option of still being able to cheer for him if he is good. Having your cake and eating it to in some sort of strange way.

True, and I'm just trying to expose it for exactly what you just said.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think what I'm having trouble with in this discussion is in trying to figure out what really is the point being made? We have a segment telling us how Drew is struggling, and how his numbers don't compare well with other players who became stars. But they don't want to say definitively that this means he can't become a great player. I can say with confidence that we all watch the games, we all see most of the same things. We know when Drew or Zach have a bad stretch vs a good one. It's pretty apparent that neither are going to have a Kevin Durant rookie year.

The question is so what?

None of this has changed my opinion that Drew is going to be an all star player in this league, and I'm not shy about telling you so. But I don't think we were 15 games into the season before the downer brigade started to piss and moan about Drew's play and deficiencies. They come on here and ramble about things that everyone can plainly see. But they won't stick their neck out and tell us anything that we can't see. If you think that Drew's early offensive struggles are relative to his career path, tell me that. If you think he's too passive to ever become an alpha dog for a contending team, tell me that. But what I'm already tired of is you using the rest of the group as a sounding board for your incessant negative replaying of the season so far. We're all frustrated as TWolve fans. Of course we're anxious about the development of our young players. It's really all that matters at this point. But it's all out there for us to see.

If you want to be compelling instead of just complaining, tell me what it means in your opinion. And don't hide behind some caveat or disclaimer.

Thank you Cool for being the board arbiter for what and what cannot be discussed here.

Just because people don't agree with you... doesn't mean there's any reason to dismiss what they're saying. You see the same guys do it repeatedly on here. And it's usually simply because somebody doesn't see the same things with the same perpetually rosy glasses.

It's not that I disagree with you, I'm just asking that you actually say something with conviction.

It's hard to agree/disagree with someone who straddles both sides of the fence. Take a stand, and then I'll let you know whether I agree or not.

This just in:

Andrew Wiggins strengths and weaknesses are exactly the same as when he was scouted. Thanks for repeating this 26 games into the season. I look forward to hearing about them again at the all-star break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE0wOOk07ko