Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Any And All Things T-Wolves Related
User avatar
TAFKASP
Posts: 5356
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by TAFKASP »

khans2k5 wrote:
TheSP wrote:
The problem as I see it is his third year option has to be picked up before you know if he'll progress. If you keep him for his third year in the hope he does you almost have to pick up his option which means you're stuck with him next year if doesn't deliver on that promise.


This makes zero sense. First off, this is going to be his third year and that option has already been picked up. He has a contract for this year. Then you just don't pick up his option for next year and let him play out this year. If he earns another deal with us he'll get it, but why would we ever "have" to pick up his option for next year to see what he can do the rest of this year? He's already signed this year, but his team option has to be picked up by the end of October or he becomes a free agent...next summer after the season.


IMO you either believe in the guy or you don't. He's shown enough to make that investment or he hasn't. If you keep a player without picking up his option then you're simply better off focusing your attention and playing time on the players like Payne because if he blossoms you still control his immediate future. If you keep AB and don't pick up his fourth year option and you expend those resources on him it's unlikely they're going to be able to afford him should he blossom.

I'm not saying you couldn't focus on developing AB while not picking up his option, given the circumstances it just doesn't make sense. Bottom line IMO is you're either believe in him enough to pick up that option or you move on now. Be that by trade or simply putting him on the end of the bench while you develop other options.
User avatar
BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
Posts: 3290
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520] »

AB for Derrick Williams?
User avatar
TAFKASP
Posts: 5356
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by TAFKASP »

BizarroJerry wrote:AB for Derrick Williams?


One still at least possesses a whiff of potential, the other has proven to be a complete waste on an NBA roster.
User avatar
Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Posts: 13844
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

TheSP wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
TheSP wrote:
The problem as I see it is his third year option has to be picked up before you know if he'll progress. If you keep him for his third year in the hope he does you almost have to pick up his option which means you're stuck with him next year if doesn't deliver on that promise.


This makes zero sense. First off, this is going to be his third year and that option has already been picked up. He has a contract for this year. Then you just don't pick up his option for next year and let him play out this year. If he earns another deal with us he'll get it, but why would we ever "have" to pick up his option for next year to see what he can do the rest of this year? He's already signed this year, but his team option has to be picked up by the end of October or he becomes a free agent...next summer after the season.


IMO you either believe in the guy or you don't. He's shown enough to make that investment or he hasn't. If you keep a player without picking up his option then you're simply better off focusing your attention and playing time on the players like Payne because if he blossoms you still control his immediate future. If you keep AB and don't pick up his fourth year option and you expend those resources on him it's unlikely they're going to be able to afford him should he blossom.

I'm not saying you couldn't focus on developing AB while not picking up his option, given the circumstances it just doesn't make sense. Bottom line IMO is you're either believe in him enough to pick up that option or you move on now. Be that by trade or simply putting him on the end of the bench while you develop other options.



SP may have had his details mixed up, but his larger point is valid. If we don't pick up his option for 2016-17, why on earth would Flip and Co. have any incentive to "see what he's got" and prioritize him for playing time? He'll be an unrestricted free agent a year from now.

Flip is going to put KG, Bjelica (if we don't trade him), Payne, and even Robbie Hummel ahead of AB in the rotation. Heck, if Pekovic is healthy, Towns and Dieng might even get some burn at PF and you better believe they will be ahead of AB in that pecking order.

I really don't see any scenario where we pick up his 4th year option, and once we decline it, he goes to the end of the bench. Given our injury history with bigs, I suppose there is a chance he gets enough PT to blow up and play really well, but then what can we do about it?
User avatar
Monster
Posts: 24055
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by Monster »

longstrangetrip wrote:I think the Anthony Bennett situation is far more nuanced than some posters here treat it...his is not a black and white situation. On one hand you can't ignore the subpar stats he has put up his first two years, and his inability to stay healthy. He has not resembled a #1 pick in any way, and at close to $6 million a year and with Towns likely capable of playing the same position, it's easy to understand why Flip might have him on the trading block.

On the other hand, I can't group AB with three other famous #1 busts...Olawakandi, Darko and Bargnani. For one thing, there appears to be a huge difference in how the four of them approach being in the NBA. While the other three always seemed to project a casual, just happy to be there attitude, and didn't have the reputation as putting in a lot of effort, that isn't how anyone would describe AB. He seems to work on his body and his game in the off-season as diligently as anyone on our roster, and has also been praised for being a hard worker in practice. Next, while still modest, his stats clearly improved from year 1 to year 2. He raised his shooting percentage almost 7 percentage points in his sophomore season, and his per 36 stats were not horrendous...12.0 points and 8.7 rebounds. Not #1 pick numbers at all, to be sure, but at least decent 2nd year rotation player numbers.

The eye test for AB is mixed, but mostly negative, although sometimes I wonder how much of that has to do with how Flip directs him on offense. On the positive side, he showed a sweet touch and good form on his long 2-point shots in the first half of the year, and his dunks on the few times he actually went to the basket were often jaw-dropping. But at other times, and way too often, he seemed lost on both offense and defense.

I am far from giving up on AB. I sometimes go back and watch his college highlights (and his less frequent pro highlights), and nobody with an honest, informed opinion can deny that he has some impressive physical gifts. Jim Peterson says that AB lost confidence as the year went on, and I don't disagree. His form on his jumper looked the same, but it went in much less frequently the last half of the year. And it's baffling to me why he doesn't play inside more often (to that point, it's good to hear he is working hard on his post game this summer). There is so much potential there, and it frustrates me when he drifts on the court as he has a tendency to do sometimes.

After two injured and poor statistical seasons, GMs are going to be wary of giving up much for AB...even if they recognize his potential. That's why I'm not in favor of pulling the trigger on a trade...I much prefer seeing how he performs in a third year, although I fully recognize that Flip only has training camp and a few games at the start of the season before he needs to make a decision on AB's option...not optimal timing.

In two days, we are almost certain to add Towns to an already promising roster. While GMs spend more time looking at stats, I think players know who the real ballers are. I suspect if you asked KAT who he was excited about playing with this season, he would mention Rubio, Wiggins, KG, LaVine, Shabazz and...Anthony Bennett. There's no question he has seen all the highlight videos, and knows the kind of potential lurking there.

Like I said, AB's situation is quite nuanced. I understand why some would advocate dealing him for the likes of Vasquez...a 1-way journeyman PG. Better to get something for AB than to decline his option and let him leave for nothing. But my position still is to let the year play out. My expectations are balanced, but I also know that if AB could regain the confidence he had at UNLV, he could be a real X factor on this team.


This is a well thought out and fair post. Hey LST I feel what you are saying I was in this spot going into Derrick Williams 3rd year he had improved just enough and we had a hole at SF there was some small hope he could fill. I didn't see us getting anythig too exciting so I figured let's hold onto him. I said that and u was never a big believer in the guy. (I bought into what Q had to say about him before the draft). There is a hole at PF for the future and Bennett is there and even more so than Wiiliams we probably aren't going to get anything exciting for Bennett. I don't have a problem with people having hope for the guy I used to be about as OpTIMistic as anyone on the old ESPN board but my reason for moving on from Bennett is because he can't stay healthy hasn't done much on the court when he has been and when I watch him play it doesn't seem like he gets it. Derrick Williams is a decent bench player at best and he showed more by now than Bennett and missed no games. I think there might be a couple teams out there that think that Bennett can still be something like the people on this board that like him. I hope we can move him to one of those teams for something that might be more worthwhile this year. That's where I am at. If we end up keeping Bennett it's cool I'll hope for the best but if we can even get a decent vet for him at a spot we need a player sure. I am not paying any assets to dump him though.
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Camden wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Acknowledging Flynn's #'s weren't terrible his rookie year, I still thought he was an awful basketball player from the get-go. Terrible shot selection, forced most things, didn't create much for others, too small to be a good defender. And this was BEFORE his hip injury. He was one guy I would have given up on after his first 50 games. He's been proving me right since.


Still straying from the point, Cool. Bennett has been garbage and he hasn't shown anything close to Flynn's level of production. That;s the point I'm making. I was never a big Flynn guy myself, but come on... This isn't close.

But you miss my point...............Bennett is not a terrible basketball player in my opinion. Disappointing? Sure. Hopeless? No. We can agree to disagree on those points.


I think that sums up my thoughts about Bennett very succinctly, I had high hopes for him coming into the league (although I didn't think he was the best choice for the Cavs at #1), and he has been a big disappointment to me, and probably to himself. But to describe him as "garbage" is a great example of a poster missing the nuance involved in assessing AB. AB is only 22 years old, and his per 36 stats weren't that much different than another PF in the prime years of his career at age 26...Kevin Love. Rebounds (8.7 vs. 10.4), assists (1.9 vs. 2.4), turnovers (1.4 vs. 1.7) and steals (1.1 vs. .7) aren't dramatically different enough to label AB as garbage (with each of them having the better stats in two of the categories), and while points (12 vs. 17.5) are the only stat of significant difference, the difference is almost completley due to Love taking more shots since their shooting percentages are very close (42% vs. 43%). Players generally improve dramatically between ages 22 and 26, so how do you think Love and AB's respective 26-year-old stats will compare? I gotta believe they will be very close.

I don't agree with Q's conclusion that there is no scenario in which Flip picks up AB's 4th year option. If AB continues to be hurt in training camp and early season, then Flip very well may decline to pick it up. But if AB appears healthy and continues to show the improvement he did last year, I think Flip will be inclined to pick up the option. It's only one more year after 2015-6 that he will be on the hook for, and with the cap jumping up so much in 2016-7, AB's $7.3 million isn't going to hamstring Flip. Flip's playing poker here and he has to decide in October whether he is going to fold or call...I say the upside on his hand is significant enough for him to want to stay in the game.
User avatar
TAFKASP
Posts: 5356
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by TAFKASP »

Q12543 wrote:
TheSP wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
TheSP wrote:
The problem as I see it is his third year option has to be picked up before you know if he'll progress. If you keep him for his third year in the hope he does you almost have to pick up his option which means you're stuck with him next year if doesn't deliver on that promise.


This makes zero sense. First off, this is going to be his third year and that option has already been picked up. He has a contract for this year. Then you just don't pick up his option for next year and let him play out this year. If he earns another deal with us he'll get it, but why would we ever "have" to pick up his option for next year to see what he can do the rest of this year? He's already signed this year, but his team option has to be picked up by the end of October or he becomes a free agent...next summer after the season.


IMO you either believe in the guy or you don't. He's shown enough to make that investment or he hasn't. If you keep a player without picking up his option then you're simply better off focusing your attention and playing time on the players like Payne because if he blossoms you still control his immediate future. If you keep AB and don't pick up his fourth year option and you expend those resources on him it's unlikely they're going to be able to afford him should he blossom.

I'm not saying you couldn't focus on developing AB while not picking up his option, given the circumstances it just doesn't make sense. Bottom line IMO is you're either believe in him enough to pick up that option or you move on now. Be that by trade or simply putting him on the end of the bench while you develop other options.



SP may have had his details mixed up, but his larger point is valid. If we don't pick up his option for 2016-17, why on earth would Flip and Co. have any incentive to "see what he's got" and prioritize him for playing time? He'll be an unrestricted free agent a year from now.

Flip is going to put KG, Bjelica (if we don't trade him), Payne, and even Robbie Hummel ahead of AB in the rotation. Heck, if Pekovic is healthy, Towns and Dieng might even get some burn at PF and you better believe they will be ahead of AB in that pecking order.

I really don't see any scenario where we pick up his 4th year option, and once we decline it, he goes to the end of the bench. Given our injury history with bigs, I suppose there is a chance he gets enough PT to blow up and play really well, but then what can we do about it?


In my first post I meant to say his 4th year option would need to be picked up prior to getting any feedback on his future worth. That probably through Khans off.
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:I think the Anthony Bennett situation is far more nuanced than some posters here treat it...his is not a black and white situation. On one hand you can't ignore the subpar stats he has put up his first two years, and his inability to stay healthy. He has not resembled a #1 pick in any way, and at close to $6 million a year and with Towns likely capable of playing the same position, it's easy to understand why Flip might have him on the trading block.

On the other hand, I can't group AB with three other famous #1 busts...Olawakandi, Darko and Bargnani. For one thing, there appears to be a huge difference in how the four of them approach being in the NBA. While the other three always seemed to project a casual, just happy to be there attitude, and didn't have the reputation as putting in a lot of effort, that isn't how anyone would describe AB. He seems to work on his body and his game in the off-season as diligently as anyone on our roster, and has also been praised for being a hard worker in practice. Next, while still modest, his stats clearly improved from year 1 to year 2. He raised his shooting percentage almost 7 percentage points in his sophomore season, and his per 36 stats were not horrendous...12.0 points and 8.7 rebounds. Not #1 pick numbers at all, to be sure, but at least decent 2nd year rotation player numbers.

The eye test for AB is mixed, but mostly negative, although sometimes I wonder how much of that has to do with how Flip directs him on offense. On the positive side, he showed a sweet touch and good form on his long 2-point shots in the first half of the year, and his dunks on the few times he actually went to the basket were often jaw-dropping. But at other times, and way too often, he seemed lost on both offense and defense.

I am far from giving up on AB. I sometimes go back and watch his college highlights (and his less frequent pro highlights), and nobody with an honest, informed opinion can deny that he has some impressive physical gifts. Jim Peterson says that AB lost confidence as the year went on, and I don't disagree. His form on his jumper looked the same, but it went in much less frequently the last half of the year. And it's baffling to me why he doesn't play inside more often (to that point, it's good to hear he is working hard on his post game this summer). There is so much potential there, and it frustrates me when he drifts on the court as he has a tendency to do sometimes.

After two injured and poor statistical seasons, GMs are going to be wary of giving up much for AB...even if they recognize his potential. That's why I'm not in favor of pulling the trigger on a trade...I much prefer seeing how he performs in a third year, although I fully recognize that Flip only has training camp and a few games at the start of the season before he needs to make a decision on AB's option...not optimal timing.

In two days, we are almost certain to add Towns to an already promising roster. While GMs spend more time looking at stats, I think players know who the real ballers are. I suspect if you asked KAT who he was excited about playing with this season, he would mention Rubio, Wiggins, KG, LaVine, Shabazz and...Anthony Bennett. There's no question he has seen all the highlight videos, and knows the kind of potential lurking there.

Like I said, AB's situation is quite nuanced. I understand why some would advocate dealing him for the likes of Vasquez...a 1-way journeyman PG. Better to get something for AB than to decline his option and let him leave for nothing. But my position still is to let the year play out. My expectations are balanced, but I also know that if AB could regain the confidence he had at UNLV, he could be a real X factor on this team.


This is a well thought out and fair post. Hey LST I feel what you are saying I was in this spot going into Derrick Williams 3rd year he had improved just enough and we had a hole at SF there was some small hope he could fill. I didn't see us getting anythig too exciting so I figured let's hold onto him. I said that and u was never a big believer in the guy. (I bought into what Q had to say about him before the draft). There is a hole at PF for the future and Bennett is there and even more so than Wiiliams we probably aren't going to get anything exciting for Bennett. I don't have a problem with people having hope for the guy I used to be about as OpTIMistic as anyone on the old ESPN board but my reason for moving on from Bennett is because he can't stay healthy hasn't done much on the court when he has been and when I watch him play it doesn't seem like he gets it. Derrick Williams is a decent bench player at best and he showed more by now than Bennett and missed no games. I think there might be a couple teams out there that think that Bennett can still be something like the people on this board that like him. I hope we can move him to one of those teams for something that might be more worthwhile this year. That's where I am at. If we end up keeping Bennett it's cool I'll hope for the best but if we can even get a decent vet for him at a spot we need a player sure. I am not paying any assets to dump him though.


Monster, I can't blame anyone for giving up on AB...he just hasn't been very impressive. I see a big difference between him and Derrick Williams though. I never thought Williams was committed enough to ever recognize his true potential. He has great physical attributes and talent like AB, but I see a huge difference in the desire to get better. AB works his tail off. We've seen it now in both summers he has been a T-Wolf.

If AB doesn't make it, it's not going to be because of physical limitations or work ethic. It will be because of a lack of confidence. I'm hopeful, but certainly not sure, that he will get that back...AB with a little swagger would be fun to watch.
User avatar
Camden [enjin:6601484]
Posts: 18065
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

LST, you have got to stop comparing Anthony Bennett to Kevin Love. You have done it time and time again. It doesn't work.
User avatar
Camden [enjin:6601484]
Posts: 18065
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Wolves Dangling Anthony Bennett as trade bait

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Derrick Williams worked hard to get better too. You can disregard it, but even his last year here he put in serious work that off-season despite going through jaw surgery and shedding weight to try and play small forward.

But I have to remember who I'm talking to... the guy making Kevin Love comparisons to Anthony Bennett. Wait, so if Tristan Thompson is better than Kevin Love, LST, than he must be better than Bennett too. Isn't the equation now: Thompson > Love = Bennett?

I give up. Bennett's not worthy of keeping around. I never wanted him here because he's just not a good NBA player. I voiced it then; I'm still here saying it because nothing's changed about Bennett except he's a year older.
Post Reply