Minnesota Sports Forum

mrhockey89 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:As someone who is watching this from afar, it could be worse. You could get used to it and accept this as everyday life, like where I'm from. I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't, so just protect yourselves and your neighborhoods. That's all you can do. If you're a minority like me, all you can do is live life with your head on a swivel.

I'm not gonna get into the political garbage that comes from this because this shouldn't be a political issue at all.

WW, I'm not understanding your comment "I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't"? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't suggesting there should be a predetermined outcome, because I think that would be about the worst case scenario (where facts of the case don't come into play to decide the case, but rather to decide the case based on emotion). I've said all along that this is a very difficult case (I actually was recently called for jury duty in Hennepin County about 2 months ago and had I delayed it until March instead of January I may have been on the case), but also one where whatever the correct outcome is should be the outcome...not one based on a pro-mob or pro-police sentiment.

Meaning, I think the officer will be acquitted, even though I think he's guilty and many others think he's guilty. Deep down, even those who believe Chauvin is guilty know he won't be convicted because that's how it is. I don't expect anything less, and that's from an inherent lack of confidence in the system that so many of us have.

mrhockey89 wrote:What's concerning to me is people like Maxine Waters who shows up in Brooklyn Center and tells the crowd to only accept the lawful outcome if he's found guilty of murder..and that manslaughter isn't good enough, saying they need to be more aggressive..and then follows it up today by tweeting riots are the voice of the unheard. If Trump was inciting riots by suggesting his followers go peacefully to the capitol and demand they decertify the election results, then surely Waters suggesting they not accept the results of a court case and literally implying riots are okay in her tweet is next-level on a city that has already been incited by riots, looting, and arson.

Hockey, I was watching the president's speech live on January 6, and I physically felt sick to my stomach...I knew it was inevitable that bad things were going to happen. I was not aware that Waters was in town over the weekend, so I heard her words for the first time yesterday while I was driving. I felt the same sick feeling in my stomach...actually had to pull my car over to the side of the road. What is wrong with our elected leaders that they act this way...where is the statesmanship? I think we can all agree that Waters doesn't have the same kind of visibility and rabid following as former president Trump, but her words are as abhorrent as his were.

WildWolf, thanks for your thoughts. I certainly get that it's highly unlikely that a white cop gets convicted in this country, so I understand where your concerns are coming from.. I think this case is different though. In my lifetime there has never been a murder that has been displayed in the media, from dozens of different angles, so many times...it's burned into our collective memories. I'm reasonably certain a guilty victory will be returned today, and frankly, I think the protection of a jail cell might be the safest outcome for Chauvin. That said, Congresswoman Water's foolish comments make the chances of an appeal much more likely.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:As someone who is watching this from afar, it could be worse. You could get used to it and accept this as everyday life, like where I'm from. I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't, so just protect yourselves and your neighborhoods. That's all you can do. If you're a minority like me, all you can do is live life with your head on a swivel.

I'm not gonna get into the political garbage that comes from this because this shouldn't be a political issue at all.

WW, I'm not understanding your comment "I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't"? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't suggesting there should be a predetermined outcome, because I think that would be about the worst case scenario (where facts of the case don't come into play to decide the case, but rather to decide the case based on emotion). I've said all along that this is a very difficult case (I actually was recently called for jury duty in Hennepin County about 2 months ago and had I delayed it until March instead of January I may have been on the case), but also one where whatever the correct outcome is should be the outcome...not one based on a pro-mob or pro-police sentiment.

Meaning, I think the officer will be acquitted, even though I think he's guilty and many others think he's guilty. Deep down, even those who believe Chauvin is guilty know he won't be convicted because that's how it is. I don't expect anything less, and that's from an inherent lack of confidence in the system that so many of us have.

That's unfortunate you feel that way wildwolf. Keep in mind that the jury selection system is not "rigged" and allows the prosecution and defense to vet jurors for bias in either direction. In addition, I would argue that the jury is under enormous outside pressure to convict.

I'd be curious to know your thoughts on a better system for such a trial. You are implying with your statement that you and "many others" think he is guilty. So should we crowd-source the process and let folks like you and me vote on whether he is guilty or not based on what we have read and seen in the media?

My wife and I were talking about a few of these things.

1. Floyd and Wright's incidents are not racial events or hate crimes. They racial brewed political and media-made events.
2. We wonder how immigration has changed historically. Early on it was a promise of opportunity and struggle, but today it seems to be a place of safety and welfare. We seem to have groups importing immigrants instead of those individuals making the tough decision. Is it a reality? Is that the right strategy?
3. We are sick of our freedoms and liberties being limited due to inciters of race wars.
4. Why is there not a call for self-accountability?

FNG wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:What's concerning to me is people like Maxine Waters who shows up in Brooklyn Center and tells the crowd to only accept the lawful outcome if he's found guilty of murder..and that manslaughter isn't good enough, saying they need to be more aggressive..and then follows it up today by tweeting riots are the voice of the unheard. If Trump was inciting riots by suggesting his followers go peacefully to the capitol and demand they decertify the election results, then surely Waters suggesting they not accept the results of a court case and literally implying riots are okay in her tweet is next-level on a city that has already been incited by riots, looting, and arson.

Hockey, I was watching the president's speech live on January 6, and I physically felt sick to my stomach...I knew it was inevitable that bad things were going to happen. I was not aware that Waters was in town over the weekend, so I heard her words for the first time yesterday while I was driving. I felt the same sick feeling in my stomach...actually had to pull my car over to the side of the road. What is wrong with our elected leaders that they act this way...where is the statesmanship? I think we can all agree that Waters doesn't have the same kind of visibility and rabid following as former president Trump, but her words are as abhorrent as his were.

WildWolf, thanks for your thoughts. I certainly get that it's highly unlikely that a white cop gets convicted in this country, so I understand where your concerns are coming from.. I think this case is different though. In my lifetime there has never been a murder that has been displayed in the media, from dozens of different angles, so many times...it's burned into our collective memories. I'm reasonably certain a guilty victory will be returned today, and frankly, I think the protection of a jail cell might be the safest outcome for Chauvin. That said, Congresswoman Water's foolish comments make the chances of an appeal much more likely.

The problem with politicians is that while they can speak under the guise of "will of the people"... we've seen (x,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx) times that they are self-serving, narcissistic, hypocritical, et al.

Waters is 82 years old. There are no real repercussions for her here. In fact, she won the last election with 70% of the vote... so she's not really putting her career in jeopardy should she run again. I'm sure her team had many discussions about the pros/cons of her statements... all of them centering around how this affects HER BRAND. This story gets her name in every media outlet in the country and throughout the world. It makes her a household name for more people. It may even make her a champion to many.

Meanwhile, should her words actually help incite anything, she'll be safely in her cocoon 2,000+ miles away from the action.


[Note: She may firmly believe, especially as a minority, that something/anything must be done to improve racial discrimination in this country. Even something more confrontational. We can agree/disagree on that. My opinion is that it's a lot easier for politicians to take certain positions when they have less skin in the game (career wise). It's been proven too many times.]

WildWolf2813 wrote:

Meaning, I think the officer will be acquitted, even though I think he's guilty and many others think he's guilty. Deep down, even those who believe Chauvin is guilty know he won't be convicted because that's how it is. I don't expect anything less, and that's from an inherent lack of confidence in the system that so many of us have.

Did you listen to closing arguements?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:What's concerning to me is people like Maxine Waters who shows up in Brooklyn Center and tells the crowd to only accept the lawful outcome if he's found guilty of murder..and that manslaughter isn't good enough, saying they need to be more aggressive..and then follows it up today by tweeting riots are the voice of the unheard. If Trump was inciting riots by suggesting his followers go peacefully to the capitol and demand they decertify the election results, then surely Waters suggesting they not accept the results of a court case and literally implying riots are okay in her tweet is next-level on a city that has already been incited by riots, looting, and arson.

Hockey, I was watching the president's speech live on January 6, and I physically felt sick to my stomach...I knew it was inevitable that bad things were going to happen. I was not aware that Waters was in town over the weekend, so I heard her words for the first time yesterday while I was driving. I felt the same sick feeling in my stomach...actually had to pull my car over to the side of the road. What is wrong with our elected leaders that they act this way...where is the statesmanship? I think we can all agree that Waters doesn't have the same kind of visibility and rabid following as former president Trump, but her words are as abhorrent as his were.

WildWolf, thanks for your thoughts. I certainly get that it's highly unlikely that a white cop gets convicted in this country, so I understand where your concerns are coming from.. I think this case is different though. In my lifetime there has never been a murder that has been displayed in the media, from dozens of different angles, so many times...it's burned into our collective memories. I'm reasonably certain a guilty victory will be returned today, and frankly, I think the protection of a jail cell might be the safest outcome for Chauvin. That said, Congresswoman Water's foolish comments make the chances of an appeal much more likely.

The problem with politicians is that while they can speak under the guise of "will of the people"... we've seen (x,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx) times that they are self-serving, narcissistic, hypocritical, et al.

Waters is 82 years old. There are no real repercussions for her here. In fact, she won the last election with 70% of the vote... so she's not really putting her career in jeopardy should she run again. I'm sure her team had many discussions about the pros/cons of her statements... all of them centering around how this affects HER BRAND. This story gets her name in every media outlet in the country and throughout the world. It makes her a household name for more people. It may even make her a champion to many.

Meanwhile, should her words actually help incite anything, she'll be safely in her cocoon 2,000+ miles away from the action.


[Note: She may firmly believe, especially as a minority, that something/anything must be done to improve racial discrimination in this country. Even something more confrontational. We can agree/disagree on that. My opinion is that it's a lot easier for politicians to take certain positions when they have less skin in the game (career wise). It's been proven too many times.]

Trump and Waters made their comments because, even as despicable as they both were, the words actually strengthened their reputation with their base..."improved" their respective brands. They both say horrible things about the other, but in my opinion, they are interchangeable.

Waters was an inciter in the Rodney King riots decades ago, and her words this past weekend were almost identical to what she said back then. Where I believe you are wrong, Abe, is that she won't be in a safe cocoon if riots ensue. South LA is going to burn if the verdict is not guilty, and Maxine Waters lives in the nicest house in south LA. She may come back from Washington and find her house burned to the ground...and her words would have a lot to do with it.

Waters had no business being in Minnesota. She should have stayed in the cesspool that is California which she helped create. She's a despicable human being.

The crazy thing about Water's comments is they could lead to a mistrial. If that happens, will people blame her? Or will they use that as fuel to say "the system is rigged"?

Here's what the judge said about it in case anyone missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sup-BYt8FG8

Carlos Danger wrote:The crazy thing about Water's comments is they could lead to a mistrial. If that happens, will people blame her? Or will they use that as fuel to say "the system is rigged"?

Here's what the judge said about it in case anyone missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sup-BYt8FG8

I saw that live and had no idea what they were talking about at the time. I am sure the jury feels insane pressure and they know that if they acquit then have to have a very good reason and will face threats against themselves and their family. If he is acquitted on any charges in this case then I would say certainly justice prevailed because it would be so much easier to roll with a conviction.

Did anyone else see this?

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/vandals-leave-pigs-head-smear-blood-on-former-norcal-home-of-derek-chauvin-defense-witness/