Minnesota Sports Forum

I'd take Dragic in a heartbeat, but there's no way Miami takes Ricky for him. Miami's biggest problem is shooting which Ricky doesn't fix. Dragic is the only decent jump shooter in their starting lineup. A Ricky/Wade backcourt doesn't work. I'd love Dragic for us because he could go back to the way he was in Phoenix which is a ball dominant scorer who makes the right passes. He can't do that next to Wade in Miami, but I've heard multiple people on podcasts cite his PnR numbers with Bosh which are great. His role next to Wade is why his numbers are down.

Camden wrote:I'd rather have Rubio over Dragic right now myself. He's better than Dragic, four years younger and cheaper. I think that'd be a move that hurts us instead of helps.

I agree, but I also think the Rubio for Dragic/Conley/Teague/(name your veteran starting PG) aren't ridiculous proposals either. I just don't know how much it moves the needle and if a deal could even realistically be done.

When Rubio sits on the bench, we are probably the worst basketball team in the league. When he's on the court, we're a mediocre basketball team. I'm not sure how much that changes swapping out Rubio for a Dragic or Teague.

Actually both Bosh and Deng have been better three point shooters than Dragic. Even though Dragic had one really good year as a three point shooter, outside shooting is not his best skill. It is his tremendous ability to finish at rim for a point guard. He has shot better than 66% at rim each season after his sophmore year with a huge amount of attempts.(typically around 40% of his FGA)

Why I think Miami could consider trading him to Ricky?

- Dragic doesn't fit well with Wade since both have same elite skill attacking the rim and need to have ball in their hands to do that and Wade will play probably at least one more year if he stays healthy.
- Neither Dragic or Wade (nowadays) are good defenders. Ricky would give them more defense to back court.
- Dragic is 29 years old and has still 4 years left of his 86 million contract. He will be 33 in his last year when he is expected to get over 19 million.
- Miami has seen how much more efficient Love was with Rubio and might think If another star power forward Bosh would benefit as much about playing with Ricky.
- This is already second straight year when Dragic stats are declining. If that trend continues he might be soon Deron Williams level untradeable. While Ricky is having career best year from PER, assists/TO ratio point of view and since Ricky is four years younger he should not be declining any time soon.
- Even If Ricky would't be success in Miami, they would at least save 31 millions that they could use for signing other players.
- Even tough Ricky doesn't have any playoff experience, Dragic won't have It much either. He has been in playoffs only once.

Why I want Dragic?
- I believe his down year is mainly because he is bad fit with Miami's slow pace offense.
- He would be great fit with Minnesota's group of athletic runners if Wolves just get a coach that understands how to use their talent.
- Even tough Dragic is 33 years when his contract ends, I'm hoping that his ability to finish at rim is similar to Manu who still at age 38 knows how to hit his lay-ups
- Dragic has had much less problems with injuries than Ricky

Khan might be still right that Miami would not want to trade Dragic for Ricky. Maybe then a three way trade next summer between Dallas/Sacramento (two teams that have been rumored to be interested about Rubio), Miami and Minnesota.

Ricky is easily our most underappreciated player. Look at the Real Plus Minus to see his impact on the court:

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 46 33.7 9.18 1.69 10.87 14.28
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 49 34.2 7.96 1.34 9.30 13.37
3 Draymond Green, PF GS 47 34.2 3.86 5.13 8.99 12.69
4 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 45 32.6 4.59 4.26 8.85 11.10
5 LeBron James, SF CLE 45 35.7 6.16 2.35 8.51 11.43
6 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 47 36.7 5.52 2.10 7.62 11.46
7 Chris Paul, PG LAC 43 32.4 5.84 1.07 6.91 8.69
8 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 46 33.4 1.08 5.49 6.57 9.21
9 DeMarcus Cousins, C SAC 39 34.1 2.71 3.85 6.56 8.58
10 Tim Duncan, C SA 37 25.9 -0.49 6.83 6.34 5.70
11 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 48 32.4 3.35 2.92 6.27 9.03
12 Kevin Durant, SF OKC 42 36.0 5.62 0.57 6.19 9.00
13 Kevin Love, PF CLE 46 32.4 3.30 2.67 5.97 8.28
14 Nikola Jokic, C DEN 46 19.5 2.55 2.86 5.41 4.73
15 Chris Bosh, PF MIA 48 33.6 2.91 2.07 4.98 7.79
16 Paul George, SF IND 47 35.5 3.46 1.32 4.78 8.52
17 Pau Gasol, C CHI 44 31.6 0.48 4.29 4.77 6.78
18 Ricky Rubio, PG MIN 43 30.2 1.96 2.79 4.75 6.28
19 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 46 38.1 4.44 0.15 4.59 8.31
20 James Harden, SG HOU 50 37.3 6.01 -1.57 4.44 8.95

Mikkeman wrote:Actually both Bosh and Deng have been better three point shooters than Dragic. Even though Dragic had one really good year as a three point shooter, outside shooting is not his best skill. It is his tremendous ability to finish at rim for a point guard. He has shot better than 66% at rim each season after his sophmore year with a huge amount of attempts.(typically around 40% of his FGA)

Why I think Miami could consider trading him to Ricky?

- Dragic doesn't fit well with Wade since both have same elite skill attacking the rim and need to have ball in their hands to do that and Wade will play probably at least one more year if he stays healthy.
- Neither Dragic or Wade (nowadays) are good defenders. Ricky would give them more defense to back court.
- Dragic is 29 years old and has still 4 years left of his 86 million contract. He will be 33 in his last year when he is expected to get over 19 million.
- Miami has seen how much more efficient Love was with Rubio and might think If another star power forward Bosh would benefit as much about playing with Ricky.
- This is already second straight year when Dragic stats are declining. If that trend continues he might be soon Deron Williams level untradeable. While Ricky is having career best year from PER, assists/TO ratio point of view and since Ricky is four years younger he should not be declining any time soon.
- Even If Ricky would't be success in Miami, they would at least save 31 millions that they could use for signing other players.
- Even tough Ricky doesn't have any playoff experience, Dragic won't have It much either. He has been in playoffs only once.

Why I want Dragic?
- I believe his down year is mainly because he is bad fit with Miami's slow pace offense.
- He would be great fit with Minnesota's group of athletic runners if Wolves just get a coach that understands how to use their talent.
- Even tough Dragic is 33 years when his contract ends, I'm hoping that his ability to finish at rim is similar to Manu who still at age 38 knows how to hit his lay-ups
- Dragic has had much less problems with injuries than Ricky

Khan might be still right that Miami would not want to trade Dragic for Ricky. Maybe then a three way trade next summer between Dallas/Sacramento (two teams that have been rumored to be interested about Rubio), Miami and Minnesota.

This is interesting. One of your reasons for why we'd want Dragic is the exact reason why many teams would justify wanting Rubio. He seems to thrive in getting athletes the ball in the open court.

I think your summary above actually made me less interested in a Rubio for Dragic swap!

TeamRicky wrote:Ricky is easily our most underappreciated player. Look at the Real Plus Minus to see his impact on the court:

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 46 33.7 9.18 1.69 10.87 14.28
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 49 34.2 7.96 1.34 9.30 13.37
3 Draymond Green, PF GS 47 34.2 3.86 5.13 8.99 12.69
4 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 45 32.6 4.59 4.26 8.85 11.10
5 LeBron James, SF CLE 45 35.7 6.16 2.35 8.51 11.43
6 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 47 36.7 5.52 2.10 7.62 11.46
7 Chris Paul, PG LAC 43 32.4 5.84 1.07 6.91 8.69
8 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 46 33.4 1.08 5.49 6.57 9.21
9 DeMarcus Cousins, C SAC 39 34.1 2.71 3.85 6.56 8.58
10 Tim Duncan, C SA 37 25.9 -0.49 6.83 6.34 5.70
11 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 48 32.4 3.35 2.92 6.27 9.03
12 Kevin Durant, SF OKC 42 36.0 5.62 0.57 6.19 9.00
13 Kevin Love, PF CLE 46 32.4 3.30 2.67 5.97 8.28
14 Nikola Jokic, C DEN 46 19.5 2.55 2.86 5.41 4.73
15 Chris Bosh, PF MIA 48 33.6 2.91 2.07 4.98 7.79
16 Paul George, SF IND 47 35.5 3.46 1.32 4.78 8.52
17 Pau Gasol, C CHI 44 31.6 0.48 4.29 4.77 6.78
18 Ricky Rubio, PG MIN 43 30.2 1.96 2.79 4.75 6.28
19 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 46 38.1 4.44 0.15 4.59 8.31
20 James Harden, SG HOU 50 37.3 6.01 -1.57 4.44 8.95

Great point. In related news, the Wolves should trade Andrew Wiggins for R. Neto or K. Singler. After all, 372 players are better than Wiggins according to that stat.

One of the factors of RPM is performance above team average per 100 possessions. So Ricky's RPM compared to an aggregate includes our 2nd unit may skew his numbers based on what I understand of this metric. We only have one real PG on the team, and despite Zach's improvement I think our bench has got to be the worst performing in the NBA.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Ricky is easily our most underappreciated player. Look at the Real Plus Minus to see his impact on the court:

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 46 33.7 9.18 1.69 10.87 14.28
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 49 34.2 7.96 1.34 9.30 13.37
3 Draymond Green, PF GS 47 34.2 3.86 5.13 8.99 12.69
4 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 45 32.6 4.59 4.26 8.85 11.10
5 LeBron James, SF CLE 45 35.7 6.16 2.35 8.51 11.43
6 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 47 36.7 5.52 2.10 7.62 11.46
7 Chris Paul, PG LAC 43 32.4 5.84 1.07 6.91 8.69
8 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 46 33.4 1.08 5.49 6.57 9.21
9 DeMarcus Cousins, C SAC 39 34.1 2.71 3.85 6.56 8.58
10 Tim Duncan, C SA 37 25.9 -0.49 6.83 6.34 5.70
11 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 48 32.4 3.35 2.92 6.27 9.03
12 Kevin Durant, SF OKC 42 36.0 5.62 0.57 6.19 9.00
13 Kevin Love, PF CLE 46 32.4 3.30 2.67 5.97 8.28
14 Nikola Jokic, C DEN 46 19.5 2.55 2.86 5.41 4.73
15 Chris Bosh, PF MIA 48 33.6 2.91 2.07 4.98 7.79
16 Paul George, SF IND 47 35.5 3.46 1.32 4.78 8.52
17 Pau Gasol, C CHI 44 31.6 0.48 4.29 4.77 6.78
18 Ricky Rubio, PG MIN 43 30.2 1.96 2.79 4.75 6.28
19 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 46 38.1 4.44 0.15 4.59 8.31
20 James Harden, SG HOU 50 37.3 6.01 -1.57 4.44 8.95

Great point. In related news, the Wolves should trade Andrew Wiggins for R. Neto or K. Singler. After all, 372 players are better than Wiggins according to that stat.

Nice try, but by pretty much all advanced stats, Wiggins is a bad NBA player right now. But given that he's 20 and crazy athletic, most people think he'll vastly improve on those stats and soon become a good to potentially great player.

TeamRicky wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Ricky is easily our most underappreciated player. Look at the Real Plus Minus to see his impact on the court:

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 46 33.7 9.18 1.69 10.87 14.28
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 49 34.2 7.96 1.34 9.30 13.37
3 Draymond Green, PF GS 47 34.2 3.86 5.13 8.99 12.69
4 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 45 32.6 4.59 4.26 8.85 11.10
5 LeBron James, SF CLE 45 35.7 6.16 2.35 8.51 11.43
6 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 47 36.7 5.52 2.10 7.62 11.46
7 Chris Paul, PG LAC 43 32.4 5.84 1.07 6.91 8.69
8 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 46 33.4 1.08 5.49 6.57 9.21
9 DeMarcus Cousins, C SAC 39 34.1 2.71 3.85 6.56 8.58
10 Tim Duncan, C SA 37 25.9 -0.49 6.83 6.34 5.70
11 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 48 32.4 3.35 2.92 6.27 9.03
12 Kevin Durant, SF OKC 42 36.0 5.62 0.57 6.19 9.00
13 Kevin Love, PF CLE 46 32.4 3.30 2.67 5.97 8.28
14 Nikola Jokic, C DEN 46 19.5 2.55 2.86 5.41 4.73
15 Chris Bosh, PF MIA 48 33.6 2.91 2.07 4.98 7.79
16 Paul George, SF IND 47 35.5 3.46 1.32 4.78 8.52
17 Pau Gasol, C CHI 44 31.6 0.48 4.29 4.77 6.78
18 Ricky Rubio, PG MIN 43 30.2 1.96 2.79 4.75 6.28
19 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 46 38.1 4.44 0.15 4.59 8.31
20 James Harden, SG HOU 50 37.3 6.01 -1.57 4.44 8.95

Great point. In related news, the Wolves should trade Andrew Wiggins for R. Neto or K. Singler. After all, 372 players are better than Wiggins according to that stat.

Nice try, but by pretty much all advanced stats, Wiggins is a bad NBA player right now. But given that he's 20 and crazy athletic, most people think he'll vastly improve on those stats and soon become a good to potentially great player.

I'm glad you caught my facetiousness.

TeamRicky wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Ricky is easily our most underappreciated player. Look at the Real Plus Minus to see his impact on the court:

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 46 33.7 9.18 1.69 10.87 14.28
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 49 34.2 7.96 1.34 9.30 13.37
3 Draymond Green, PF GS 47 34.2 3.86 5.13 8.99 12.69
4 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 45 32.6 4.59 4.26 8.85 11.10
5 LeBron James, SF CLE 45 35.7 6.16 2.35 8.51 11.43
6 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 47 36.7 5.52 2.10 7.62 11.46
7 Chris Paul, PG LAC 43 32.4 5.84 1.07 6.91 8.69
8 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 46 33.4 1.08 5.49 6.57 9.21
9 DeMarcus Cousins, C SAC 39 34.1 2.71 3.85 6.56 8.58
10 Tim Duncan, C SA 37 25.9 -0.49 6.83 6.34 5.70
11 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 48 32.4 3.35 2.92 6.27 9.03
12 Kevin Durant, SF OKC 42 36.0 5.62 0.57 6.19 9.00
13 Kevin Love, PF CLE 46 32.4 3.30 2.67 5.97 8.28
14 Nikola Jokic, C DEN 46 19.5 2.55 2.86 5.41 4.73
15 Chris Bosh, PF MIA 48 33.6 2.91 2.07 4.98 7.79
16 Paul George, SF IND 47 35.5 3.46 1.32 4.78 8.52
17 Pau Gasol, C CHI 44 31.6 0.48 4.29 4.77 6.78
18 Ricky Rubio, PG MIN 43 30.2 1.96 2.79 4.75 6.28
19 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 46 38.1 4.44 0.15 4.59 8.31
20 James Harden, SG HOU 50 37.3 6.01 -1.57 4.44 8.95

Great point. In related news, the Wolves should trade Andrew Wiggins for R. Neto or K. Singler. After all, 372 players are better than Wiggins according to that stat.

Nice try, but by pretty much all advanced stats, Wiggins is a bad NBA player right now. But given that he's 20 and crazy athletic, most people think he'll vastly improve on those stats and soon become a good to potentially great player.

You know, minus the ones Hollinger invented which have him as the 10th most valuable SG in the league and tied for 9th in estimated wins added and 13 in efficiency. I wouldn't say those are terrible for a sophomore.