Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:So, from what I've been reading the last couple of weeks, TeamRicky, Carlos Danger and whoever else opposed that trade (or any other) are just completely against trading this year's first round pick, really don't want to contend until 2018 or so when our young guys are on their second contract and when we're not super flexible with cap space. I think some of you are too caught up in wanting to have a mega lineup of 20/21-year olds.

Cam...I hear ya. What I always think about when designing this model is OKC. They developed 4 star/superstar players via the draft in KD, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden. Talk about hitting the proverbial jackpot! They realistically couldn't have asked for more success. Then they had to let Harden walk essentially because they couldn't pay 4 guys max-money (this is the concern of many on this board in regards to our guys as well). And since they signed all those guys, they have really had zero flexibility to get any better, except via trade (thinking Kanter). Best season was still last season Harden was there. And where I am stuck is that despite this talent, they haven't won a championship.....which is seemingly the only goal for some on this board. I bring this up because while their record and success year after year is great....they also have an infinitely better nucleus to work with when comparing to the Wolves. I LOVE Towns, but I feel both KD and Westbrook are both more impactful players. Regardless of how we rank those 3, the core of KD-Westy-Ibaka is SOOO much better than Towns-Wiggins-Lavine, it's not even close. Now, I see that group in OKC as a complete success story, but I get the sense many on this board would be extremely disappointed if our Wolves end up in the same camp of competing, but not winning it all. All that being said, are we really confident that simply letting this exact core develop is the way to go? Are they better than OKC is now over the longhaul? I just don't see it.

Camden wrote:So, from what I've been reading the last couple of weeks, TeamRicky, Carlos Danger and whoever else opposed that trade (or any other) are just completely against trading this year's first round pick, really don't want to contend until 2018 or so when our young guys are on their second contract and when we're not super flexible with cap space. I think some of you are too caught up in wanting to have a mega lineup of 20/21-year olds.

I think we can contend as early as next year if you are talking about just making the playoffs. But I don't think we'll be ready to make a serious title run for at least two years. That's why I think you are at least one year too early to be considering such deals. Again, we still haven't even firmed up long term GM/Coach.

Regarding contracts/cap issues - I think we are in very good shape myself. The only bad contract we have left is Pek and I guess KG. Every team has the same cap issues - yet they manage to solve it. I'd hope the Wolves would be no different in that regard. We just played Golden State. They drafted Seth Curry (2009) Klay Thompson (2011), Harrison Barnes (2012) and Dramond Green (2012). Everyone has stayed and everyone has been paid. I don't think it's as impossible as some of you are making it out to be.

Winning a title is incredibly difficult (obviously). And even getting to the NBA equivalent of the Final Four is super hard. It takes more than having "just" a couple of superstars on your team these days. So even assuming that KAT/Wiggins/LaVine are all perennial all-stars (or close to it), it still isn't enough.

Getting the right backups and role players to surround those guys is so incredibly important. That's where finding values in the 2nd round or cheap-ish free agent pickups is where the best GMs earn their money. Our failure as a franchise over the years is just as much about all the failed/given-away late 1sts and 2nd rounders, free agent signings, and injury issues as it is about the blown lottery picks.

I think we can compete for the playoffs next year and keep our pick. I am fine with trading the pick, but it has to be for the right person that fits in with the team. In my option we have our foundation. We need to supplement it now with great role players. Assembling a bunch of all stars is nice on paper, but there has to be a cohesive team effort. We need some gritty defenders, rebounders, and better three point shooting.

If we get a shot at Simmons, I take him instead of trading him. While his shot is inconsistent he is a good rebounder, passer, and has a good athletic profile to be a good two way player. I would take Ingrahm as well as I feel he has the potential to be an outstanding two way player. After those two I have no problems dealing the pick for the right players.

TRKO wrote:I think we can compete for the playoffs next year and keep our pick. I am fine with trading the pick, but it has to be for the right person that fits in with the team. In my option we have our foundation. We need to supplement it now with great role players. Assembling a bunch of all stars is nice on paper, but there has to be a cohesive team effort. We need some gritty defenders, rebounders, and better three point shooting.

If we get a shot at Simmons, I take him instead of trading him. While his shot is inconsistent he is a good rebounder, passer, and has a good athletic profile to be a good two way player. I would take Ingrahm as well as I feel he has the potential to be an outstanding two way player. After those two I have no problems dealing the pick for the right players.

So, Favors doesn't work for you? He brings defense, rebounding and grittiness, but also contributes as a secondary scorer. Anything less than Simmons or Ingram and you're not getting him with the pick. Known commodity, 24-years old, signed for two more years at reasonable money, gets better statistically every year and fits in extremely well with the current and future core. If we're speaking fit, there might not be a better potentially available player. He's it. I'd jump up and down for joy if Utah was down for this trade and we had the pick to make it happen.

I do feel the need to bring up that Cleveland and Utah supposedly had discussions two years about Favors for the No. 1 pick before the Cavs decided to acquire Love. So, I do think he could be had.

Camden0916 wrote:I do feel the need to bring up that Cleveland and Utah supposedly had discussions two years about Favors for the No. 1 pick before the Cavs decided to acquire Love. So, I do think he could be had.

I would love to add favors, he is still young and fills a need. Also this should be the last year the wolves will have a fist round pick for an asset so we need to look at all options. My thing is with favors I think he will complement the core that the wolves have more than either simmons or ingram

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:So, from what I've been reading the last couple of weeks, TeamRicky, Carlos Danger and whoever else opposed that trade (or any other) are just completely against trading this year's first round pick, really don't want to contend until 2018 or so when our young guys are on their second contract and when we're not super flexible with cap space. I think some of you are too caught up in wanting to have a mega lineup of 20/21-year olds.

I think we can contend as early as next year if you are talking about just making the playoffs. But I don't think we'll be ready to make a serious title run for at least two years. That's why I think you are at least one year too early to be considering such deals. Again, we still haven't even firmed up long term GM/Coach.

Regarding contracts/cap issues - I think we are in very good shape myself. The only bad contract we have left is Pek and I guess KG. Every team has the same cap issues - yet they manage to solve it. I'd hope the Wolves would be no different in that regard. We just played Golden State. They drafted Seth Curry (2009) Klay Thompson (2011), Harrison Barnes (2012) and Dramond Green (2012). Everyone has stayed and everyone has been paid. I don't think it's as impossible as some of you are making it out to be.

Steph signed a sub-max contract by a lot because of his glass ankles. Barnes is on the last year of his rookie deal where he was the 7th overall pick, not top 2 and Klay and Draymond just got max deals. The only reason they could afford this team is they negotiated Steph's deal at the perfect time when he was willing to take less and not gamble on his ankles. Watch what they look like in 2 years when Barnes and Steph are on new deals. It's not going to be all 4 still there.

khans2k5 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:So, from what I've been reading the last couple of weeks, TeamRicky, Carlos Danger and whoever else opposed that trade (or any other) are just completely against trading this year's first round pick, really don't want to contend until 2018 or so when our young guys are on their second contract and when we're not super flexible with cap space. I think some of you are too caught up in wanting to have a mega lineup of 20/21-year olds.

I think we can contend as early as next year if you are talking about just making the playoffs. But I don't think we'll be ready to make a serious title run for at least two years. That's why I think you are at least one year too early to be considering such deals. Again, we still haven't even firmed up long term GM/Coach.

Regarding contracts/cap issues - I think we are in very good shape myself. The only bad contract we have left is Pek and I guess KG. Every team has the same cap issues - yet they manage to solve it. I'd hope the Wolves would be no different in that regard. We just played Golden State. They drafted Seth Curry (2009) Klay Thompson (2011), Harrison Barnes (2012) and Dramond Green (2012). Everyone has stayed and everyone has been paid. I don't think it's as impossible as some of you are making it out to be.

Steph signed a sub-max contract by a lot because of his glass ankles. Barnes is on the last year of his rookie deal where he was the 7th overall pick, not top 2 and Klay and Draymond just got max deals. The only reason they could afford this team is they negotiated Steph's deal at the perfect time when he was willing to take less and not gamble on his ankles. Watch what they look like in 2 years when Barnes and Steph are on new deals. It's not going to be all 4 still there.

I'm pretty confident that they won't have Barnes next year.

khans2k5 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:So, from what I've been reading the last couple of weeks, TeamRicky, Carlos Danger and whoever else opposed that trade (or any other) are just completely against trading this year's first round pick, really don't want to contend until 2018 or so when our young guys are on their second contract and when we're not super flexible with cap space. I think some of you are too caught up in wanting to have a mega lineup of 20/21-year olds.

I think we can contend as early as next year if you are talking about just making the playoffs. But I don't think we'll be ready to make a serious title run for at least two years. That's why I think you are at least one year too early to be considering such deals. Again, we still haven't even firmed up long term GM/Coach.

Regarding contracts/cap issues - I think we are in very good shape myself. The only bad contract we have left is Pek and I guess KG. Every team has the same cap issues - yet they manage to solve it. I'd hope the Wolves would be no different in that regard. We just played Golden State. They drafted Seth Curry (2009) Klay Thompson (2011), Harrison Barnes (2012) and Dramond Green (2012). Everyone has stayed and everyone has been paid. I don't think it's as impossible as some of you are making it out to be.

Steph signed a sub-max contract by a lot because of his glass ankles. Barnes is on the last year of his rookie deal where he was the 7th overall pick, not top 2 and Klay and Draymond just got max deals. The only reason they could afford this team is they negotiated Steph's deal at the perfect time when he was willing to take less and not gamble on his ankles. Watch what they look like in 2 years when Barnes and Steph are on new deals. It's not going to be all 4 still there.

Kahns, look at all the top teams. San Antonio, Cleveland, Golden State. They just figure it out. There is no need to panic and call for trading away our young guys. Some will work out. Some won't. Rosters turn over all the time. In two years, we might be ready to fire our next Coach and start over again. I really don't concern myself about that stuff. That's for the GM/POBO to worry about - not us internet guys. Personally, I want to see our starting five return for another year with a new coach. And I want to add another top 5 pick. And I want to add a couple decent veterans that can contribute more than what we had this year with Rudez, KG, Miller. If those things happen, I will be happy. If those things happen, I don't see why we can't win 40 games. Then let's re-evaluate and make necessary trades/upgrades. Pek will be gone. KG will be gone. Maybe we decide to move Ricky at that point. So many things can happen. I don't worry about it. We can discuss for forum purposes. But nothing can really be resolved aside from agreeing to disagree.