Official 2016 Draft Thread

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

http://upsidemotor.com/2016/01/22/2016-nba-draft-best-prospects-simmons-ingram/Here's an article snippet talking about best wing defenders:

Who do you think is the best perimeter defender in this draft class?
Peters: Ingram could be, but right now, I have to go with Wade Baldwin from Vanderbilt. When you watch him play, you immediately see how long his arms and hands are. They are almost Kawhi Leonard like. He can swallow guys up on the ball that he is guarding. He is a really impressive defender. Isaiah Briscoe is also up there, but Baldwin's size and length give him an edge.

Magnotti: I think Timothe Luwawu has the best tools in the class to be a strong perimeter defender. His combination of length and quickness allows him to guard all three backcourt spots for Mega Vizura, and he won't have a problem matching up with NBA wings. He's perhaps the best thief in the draft class, posting a 3.8 steal rate, and unlike guys like Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram, he's probably going to get a lot more development focus on the defensive end because he doesn't project to be a load-carrying scorer. Much like last year, perimeter defense is at a premium in this class, and Luwawu's draft stock is going to get a bump because he's one of the few quality wing defenders available.

Stone: Are folks forgetting about Kris Dunn? I know there's a little disappointment to be had because Dunn hasn't really improved his decision-making this season as expected, but Dunn is still a monster on the defensive end where he's posted a 5.2 percent steal rate. At 6-4 with a 6-9 wingspan and plenty of strength, Dunn should be able to defend both guard spots as well.

Mazlish: Kris Dunn and Wade Baldwin are both very high end defenders who can comfortably guard point guards and shooting guards, and Taurean Prince is probably my pick for best wing defender, but for me bloodline reigns supreme. Gary Payton II from Oregon State is 6-3 with a 6-7 wingspan and brings a combination of incredible athleticism and fantastic instincts unmatched at the college level. Oregon State plays a lot of zone where Payton is extremely disruptive, and when they do man up he locks players up like a glove (hint, hint).

Nygaard: Kris Dunn is a name that comes to mind immediately, given how good he's been in on-ball defense this year, but I'd actually go with Baylor's Taurean Prince. He was an absolute menace at the Pan-Am Games last year, which is the last time we've really gotten to see him go to work without the constraints of working within Baylor's 1-3-1 zone look. More so than anyone else in this draft, I think he has the best chance of developing into a shutdown presence at the next level.

[kekgeek]

http://upsidemotor.com/2016/01/22/2016-nba-draft-best-prospects-simmons-ingram/Here's an article snippet talking about best wing defenders:

Who do you think is the best perimeter defender in this draft class?
Peters: Ingram could be, but right now, I have to go with Wade Baldwin from Vanderbilt. When you watch him play, you immediately see how long his arms and hands are. They are almost Kawhi Leonard like. He can swallow guys up on the ball that he is guarding. He is a really impressive defender. Isaiah Briscoe is also up there, but Baldwin's size and length give him an edge.

Magnotti: I think Timothe Luwawu has the best tools in the class to be a strong perimeter defender. His combination of length and quickness allows him to guard all three backcourt spots for Mega Vizura, and he won't have a problem matching up with NBA wings. He's perhaps the best thief in the draft class, posting a 3.8 steal rate, and unlike guys like Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram, he's probably going to get a lot more development focus on the defensive end because he doesn't project to be a load-carrying scorer. Much like last year, perimeter defense is at a premium in this class, and Luwawu's draft stock is going to get a bump because he's one of the few quality wing defenders available.

Stone: Are folks forgetting about Kris Dunn? I know there's a little disappointment to be had because Dunn hasn't really improved his decision-making this season as expected, but Dunn is still a monster on the defensive end where he's posted a 5.2 percent steal rate. At 6-4 with a 6-9 wingspan and plenty of strength, Dunn should be able to defend both guard spots as well.

Mazlish: Kris Dunn and Wade Baldwin are both very high end defenders who can comfortably guard point guards and shooting guards, and Taurean Prince is probably my pick for best wing defender, but for me bloodline reigns supreme. Gary Payton II from Oregon State is 6-3 with a 6-7 wingspan and brings a combination of incredible athleticism and fantastic instincts unmatched at the college level. Oregon State plays a lot of zone where Payton is extremely disruptive, and when they do man up he locks players up like a glove (hint, hint).

Nygaard: Kris Dunn is a name that comes to mind immediately, given how good he's been in on-ball defense this year, but I'd actually go with Baylor's Taurean Prince. He was an absolute menace at the Pan-Am Games last year, which is the last time we've really gotten to see him go to work without the constraints of working within Baylor's 1-3-1 zone look. More so than anyone else in this draft, I think he has the best chance of developing into a shutdown presence at the next level.

With all do respect ricky I think it is way to hard to predict how a player is going to develop on defense and IMO I would select a guy who is good at offense and terrible at defense than a guy who is great at college d and terrible on offense.

Just names off my head, thabeet, cole Aldrich, biymbo, Dieng, WCS were all supposed to be these defensive difference makers and all of them have struggled on defense or haven't created a role for themselves in the NBA. (Bitmbo the exception but took him awhile.

Look at dieng coming out he was supposed to be a defensive stopper and rim protector and right now he is the total opposite.

Wiggins and Towns were supposed to be great defenders out of college and they have flashes but everything together on defense the are average.

IMO it is a lot easier to develop a good defense with a system, coaching and effort. Than it is to develop a player to become a multi skilled offensive player. And that is why I would take Murray over any defensive college specialist you have listed.

[thedoper]

Thanks for the article Ricky. It furthers my point that somehow turning this draft into Sabonis and Baldwin by trading down would be a steal.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Kek, I don't share your view. Guys that excel on defense in college have overcome the biggest hurdle to becoming a good defender in the pros and that is a defensive mindset. Guys that take pride in their defense, put in the film work and seek to dominate defensively are likely to carry that mindset going forward. That's a rare breed. Of course, the next step is determining whether they have the physical tools (length, lateral quickness and bb IQ) to implement it. I know D-Rating only goes back to 2009 or 2010, but go back to the drafts since then and pick out the top defenders in the pros and look at their college D-Ratings. I was amazed at how predictive it was. I do look at blocks, steals, defensive rebounds, player write-ups, measurements and tape to round out my opinion.

The guys you mention are already or will likely be good defensively. KAT will be a great defender. Wiggins actually had below average defensive stats and the projection is based on his athleticism. I hope he becomes a good defender but he isn't one yet. We need players that can play defense and Murray is not one now and really hasn't shown me any indication that he'll be good defensively in the pros. If you want offense, Hield is a far superior shooter and hes actually got better length and lateral quickness than Murray.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Hmmm, I think these three statements are generally true:

Not all great college defenders turn into great NBA defenders, however....
All great NBA defenders were good college defenders, therefore.....
No great NBA defenders were poor college defenders.

Do folks agree with this?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If you want offense, Hield is a far superior shooter and hes actually got better length and lateral quickness than Murray.

Murray's 19-years old posting much, much better numbers than Hield did as a freshman, as a sophomore, and as a junior. Stay objective about these two guys. Hield, age 22, is having a monster season, but you're ignoring the growth that Murray can and will have over the next several years. Also, Hield's length advantage is less than two inches of wingspan. Not a deal breaker by any means. The offset there is that Murray's more advanced with his handle, court vision, and arguably his decision-making, which makes draft pundits wonder if he could play point guard at the next level. Hield will strictly be an undersized two-guard.

The Murray hate-wagon you're driving continues to go off course.

[Monster]

Hmmm, I think these three statements are generally true:

Not all great college defenders turn into great NBA defenders, however....
All great NBA defenders were good college defenders, therefore.....
No great NBA defenders were poor college defenders.

Do folks agree with this?

I know you said "generally" but my guess is there are or have been enough outliers to say no.

Also is a one and done or 19ish year old sophomore a finished enough product to label as a bad defender in college and therefore say he doesn't have a shot at doing it at the next level? I know where you are trying to get to (and I think you make sense) but it feels to simplistic and unpredictable but there are warning signs for some guys that should be heeded when it comes their defense obviously.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If you want offense, Hield is a far superior shooter and hes actually got better length and lateral quickness than Murray.

Murray's 19-years old posting much, much better numbers than Hield did as a freshman, as a sophomore, and as a junior. Stay objective about these two guys. Hield, age 22, is having a monster season, but you're ignoring the growth that Murray can and will have over the next several years. Also, Hield's length advantage is less than two inches of wingspan. Not a deal breaker by any means. The offset there is that Murray's more advanced with his handle, court vision, and arguably his decision-making, which makes draft pundits wonder if he could play point guard at the next level. Hield will strictly be an undersized two-guard.

The Murray hate-wagon you're driving continues to go off course.

Murray isn't a good decision maker. He averaged 2.3 turnovers per game as a secondary ball handler. In comparison Tyus averaged 1.9 per game as the primary ball handler for Duke. Watch any Kentucky game and there are always a couple bad decisions be they either bad shot selection or forcing his own offense. He's not very good off the dribble for the most part and his big scoring games had a large chunk of points coming from catch and shoot plays run for him. As much as the hate-wagon is off course you are also giving him credit for things that aren't true either. Also it can't be said enough that Buddy is stepping up in the big moment even with a target on his back while Murray finished his tournament scoring 16 points on 18 shots including going 1-9 from 3.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If you want offense, Hield is a far superior shooter and hes actually got better length and lateral quickness than Murray.

Murray's 19-years old posting much, much better numbers than Hield did as a freshman, as a sophomore, and as a junior. Stay objective about these two guys. Hield, age 22, is having a monster season, but you're ignoring the growth that Murray can and will have over the next several years. Also, Hield's length advantage is less than two inches of wingspan. Not a deal breaker by any means. The offset there is that Murray's more advanced with his handle, court vision, and arguably his decision-making, which makes draft pundits wonder if he could play point guard at the next level. Hield will strictly be an undersized two-guard.

The Murray hate-wagon you're driving continues to go off course.

Murray isn't a good decision maker. He averaged 2.3 turnovers per game as a secondary ball handler. In comparison Tyus averaged 1.9 per game as the primary ball handler for Duke. Watch any Kentucky game and there are always a couple bad decisions be they either bad shot selection or forcing his own offense. He's not very good off the dribble for the most part and his big scoring games had a large chunk of points coming from catch and shoot plays run for him. As much as the hate-wagon is off course you are also giving him credit for things that aren't true either. Also it can't be said enough that Buddy is stepping up in the big moment even with a target on his back while Murray finished his tournament scoring 16 points on 18 shots including going 1-9 from 3.

Never said he was yet. If you read carefully, I said he was better than Hield in that regard, which he is already, and he is fine off the dribble. I don't see how you can criticize his off the dribble game by saying a large chunk of his points came from catch and shoot. Okay? No correlation there. He also hasn't been asked to do more off the dribble, but he has it in his arsenal.

Buddy's stepping up as a senior. He's supposed to. He deserves credit, but at the same time it's not a big deal to me that a freshman didn't carry his team to the Final Four. Freshman aren't supposed to do that in most instances. Wiggins had a poor tourney. Parker had a poor tourney. Towns had some stinkers in the tourney. It doesn't matter much to me that a freshman struggled in the biggest stage of the college season.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Kek, I think I what you were getting at is taking a one way defensive player isnt smart. I agree. I love two way players, A guy that plays only one way isn't usually a good pick unless you need a role player in the second round. I hated Thabeet where he was picked. I thought it was a crazy bad pick the way I thought AB and Flynn picks were crazy bad. I never thought WCS would be good on offense so I never thought he was a top ten pick. I wasn't a fan of where Biyombo was taken either.

I am not an advocate of taking any one way player with our top pick. Last draft, KAT was the consummate two way player and I started several threads advocating him as the top choice. I was concerned with both Okafor and Russell's defense.