Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:FWIW Windhorst was on Woj's pod and they both agreed that they think Glen wants to win some games now. I don't have insider info or anything but I don't doubt that. I'd guess Glen and Thibs both want to win on some level this year. I think they may differ somewhat on how to get there but I think they both have somewhat the same goal. I'd guess neither of them are gonna be super interested in doing a deal where the return is basically of a bunch of future picks that also may or may not amount to a whole lot down the road.

Monster - I heard Woj say the same thing on NBA radio earlier today. It rings true. Glen is at the tail end of his tenure as owner and he definitely wants to win now. But he's also going to be responsive to the fan base and to his prospective local purchasers, one of whom is a minority owner who could be part of a group that buys the team. Those folks are looking at a substantial long-term investment if they by the team. So I don't think Glen's horizon is as purely shorter-term as Thib's.

At the end of the day, between Thibs and Glen, there is no way the Wolves will accept Houston's offer even if all 4 picks are unprotected - unless perhaps Eric Gordon is included and even then I doubt it. But Woj did say he thinks the Sixers might join the Butler sweepstakes. I see Miami, the Sixers and Wizards as the most likely landing spots for Butler in a trade.

I agree Glen is looking more at the future than possibly Thibs but I think we would agree neither guy is basically punting on the season. I wouldn't be surprised if Thibs would be ok with some actual future assets that were farther down the road also hit getting basically nothing that helps this year...yeah I mean unless you want to do a tear down of some sort (not completely against it and some fans would obviously be fo it) that it would be hard to swallow.

Here is the thing about the Sixers...they can basically beat the offers we have heard very easily. Covington or Saric and expiring contract without a first rounder is better than those deals in terms of long term salary and getting a worthwhile piece. I don't know if the Sixers would really get in on Butler. It seems risky and they have youth and assets to get better and a longer timeline plus cap space. The key is they have various expiring contracts so they can send any of those over in various deals. Nobody else has that.

KG4Ever wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I hear everyone's arguments about how KAT's pouting might be justified, but I'm sorry...I'm just not sympathetic at all. I'm all right with him being angry with Butler (assuming the gossip is true, and only Butler and the GF know for sure), but a true warrior channels that anger and plays harder rather than turning into a snowflake. It really makes me wonder what else in the future might put KAT in pout mode, and that just isn't the definition of a warrior...and I want to build this team around warriors. Jim Peterson is generally a homer, and you can feel the disgust he has for KAT right now. "If KAT's going to play soft like that, you might as well put in Gorgui". Those words are quite telling to me, and you don't hear him criticizing Butler.

But again, no moves until the real problem is taken care of...Thibs. I'm fairly confident that the real character of KAT and Butler will be revealed when Thibs is thankfully replaced. Only then can the Wolves make a move that I will feel comfortable with.

^^

I want a guy who's gonna tell Thibs and Jimmy to go fuck themselves and dominate out there taking this team from them. Rather than pout or sand bag it until they are gone, dominate, show you can be the cornerstone and then flex on them by getting Thibs fired and Jimmy traded. The best players have that power because they earned it on the court. LeBron the GM and coach is very real. AD can tell NO to do whatever he wants and they're gonna do it. KAT could have that power, but instead he's crumbling into pieces when the going gets tough. Building a team around that is very worrisome.

This pouting narrative is nonsense. You are buying into the narrative that Jimmy wants you to believe. KAT should do all he can to get Thibs fired and Jimmy's ass gone. KAT is the man and he's telling them to get fucked. I'm respecting KAT more and more.

If you think KAT has done that in any capacity then you aren't paying much attention to this team. He's been a big soft baby through all of this and has done nothing on or off the court aside from signing on the dotted line to make this his team and that's now how you get respect from your teammates. That's how you make them hate you when you don't back up that contract with your actions.

longstrangetrip wrote:Cam asked earlier in this thread for more out-of-the-box thinking...well, here you go.

After watching KAT in the playoffs last season and in almost every game this year, I'm beginning to think that Butler is not the guy we should be trading...it's KAT. I loved him up until the playoffs last year, but I'm becoming more and more convinced he has no heart, and is not the right guy to have as the cornerstone of this franchise. KAT brings back more in a trade than Butler, and I'm confident Butler signs a long-term deal here if KAT is gone.

But the first step is to fire Thibs...today. If I'm Glen I fire Thibs today, and watch a few games to see how the team responds. Maybe the results are so good he decides to keep both Butler and KAT. Or maybe KAT returns to the pre-playoffs KAT, and Glen continues to look for the best deal for Butler. Or...maybe KAT continues to pout, short-arm shots and ask to be taken out after airballing a three, and Glen changes his focus on who should be traded (if he hasn't already).


Butler was awful last night, but he has been a much better player this season than KAT...much better. If KAT is the reason Butler wants to leave (and I think it is), he needs to be considered for trade. I'm tired of watching him play with less passion than Wiggins.

KAT is my favorite and current Wolf, and possibly all time favorite, but I'll trade anyone for the right price. But that's a separate thread.

You and I have been around the block a few times. We have seen hundreds of guys in our lives that everyone thought they could fix. And there's been literally thousands I could name on the national level. How about guys from Minnesota and/or have Minnesota connections.

The Patera brothers. Ron Magers. Bob Stinson. Grant Hart. Tommy Kramer. Kent Hrbek. Mitch Lee. Keith Millard. Randy Moss. Koren Robinson. Spreewell. Cassell. Eddie Griffin. Percy Harvin. Miguel Sano.

The warning signs were there on all those guys, and if you ask anyone connected with them, if they had it to do over, would have sold high when they had the chance. The Wolves have that chance.

Butler going to go somewhere new that some on this board will think is a great deal, some will think is a fair deal, and some will whine about. Shortly after that, one of his coaches and/or teammates is going to do something he doesn't like. Fail to switch a pick. Take a contested shot when he was open. Talk about how Burger King makes better chicken nuggets than McDonalds. Whatever. And then JimmyBricks is going have a pouty-fit. And if that new team hasn't already extended him, they will announce they won't. And then all the guys who thought it was a great deal will be over the moon, all the guys who thought it was a fair deal will be happier, and all the guys who thought it was a bad deal will pretend they never had a problem with it, just like they never wanted Afflalo or Biyambo.

And then he can play on one-year MLE deals for a few years. Then he can tell a Sports Illustrated in the "Where are they now?" issue that he would do it all again, just like Percy Harvin, and everyone else in the NBA is the one with the problem and not him.

And the Wolves will either make those picks/players work, or they won't.

BUT HE HAS TO GO.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Cam asked earlier in this thread for more out-of-the-box thinking...well, here you go.

After watching KAT in the playoffs last season and in almost every game this year, I'm beginning to think that Butler is not the guy we should be trading...it's KAT. I loved him up until the playoffs last year, but I'm becoming more and more convinced he has no heart, and is not the right guy to have as the cornerstone of this franchise. KAT brings back more in a trade than Butler, and I'm confident Butler signs a long-term deal here if KAT is gone.

But the first step is to fire Thibs...today. If I'm Glen I fire Thibs today, and watch a few games to see how the team responds. Maybe the results are so good he decides to keep both Butler and KAT. Or maybe KAT returns to the pre-playoffs KAT, and Glen continues to look for the best deal for Butler. Or...maybe KAT continues to pout, short-arm shots and ask to be taken out after airballing a three, and Glen changes his focus on who should be traded (if he hasn't already).


Butler was awful last night, but he has been a much better player this season than KAT...much better. If KAT is the reason Butler wants to leave (and I think it is), he needs to be considered for trade. I'm tired of watching him play with less passion than Wiggins.

KAT is my favorite and current Wolf, and possibly all time favorite, but I'll trade anyone for the right price. But that's a separate thread.

You and I have been around the block a few times. We have seen hundreds of guys in our lives that everyone thought they could fix. And there's been literally thousands I could name on the national level. How about guys from Minnesota and/or have Minnesota connections.

The Patera brothers. Ron Magers. Bob Stinson. Grant Hart. Tommy Kramer. Kent Hrbek. Mitch Lee. Keith Millard. Randy Moss. Koren Robinson. Spreewell. Cassell. Eddie Griffin. Percy Harvin. Miguel Sano.

The warning signs were there on all those guys, and if you ask anyone connected with them, if they had it to do over, would have sold high when they had the chance. The Wolves have that chance.

Butler going to go somewhere new that some on this board will think is a great deal, some will think is a fair deal, and some will whine about. Shortly after that, one of his coaches and/or teammates is going to do something he doesn't like. Fail to switch a pick. Take a contested shot when he was open. Talk about how Burger King makes better chicken nuggets than McDonalds. Whatever. And then JimmyBricks is going have a pouty-fit. And if that new team hasn't already extended him, they will announce they won't. And then all the guys who thought it was a great deal will be over the moon, all the guys who thought it was a fair deal will be happier, and all the guys who thought it was a bad deal will pretend they never had a problem with it, just like they never wanted Afflalo or Biyambo.

And then he can play on one-year MLE deals for a few years. Then he can tell a Sports Illustrated in the "Where are they now?" issue that he would do it all again, just like Percy Harvin, and everyone else in the NBA is the one with the problem and not him.

And the Wolves will either make those picks/players work, or they won't.

BUT HE HAS TO GO.

I don't see anything I disagree with there.

KG4Ever wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I hear everyone's arguments about how KAT's pouting might be justified, but I'm sorry...I'm just not sympathetic at all. I'm all right with him being angry with Butler (assuming the gossip is true, and only Butler and the GF know for sure), but a true warrior channels that anger and plays harder rather than turning into a snowflake. It really makes me wonder what else in the future might put KAT in pout mode, and that just isn't the definition of a warrior...and I want to build this team around warriors. Jim Peterson is generally a homer, and you can feel the disgust he has for KAT right now. "If KAT's going to play soft like that, you might as well put in Gorgui". Those words are quite telling to me, and you don't hear him criticizing Butler.

But again, no moves until the real problem is taken care of...Thibs. I'm fairly confident that the real character of KAT and Butler will be revealed when Thibs is thankfully replaced. Only then can the Wolves make a move that I will feel comfortable with.

^^

I want a guy who's gonna tell Thibs and Jimmy to go fuck themselves and dominate out there taking this team from them. Rather than pout or sand bag it until they are gone, dominate, show you can be the cornerstone and then flex on them by getting Thibs fired and Jimmy traded. The best players have that power because they earned it on the court. LeBron the GM and coach is very real. AD can tell NO to do whatever he wants and they're gonna do it. KAT could have that power, but instead he's crumbling into pieces when the going gets tough. Building a team around that is very worrisome.

This pouting narrative is nonsense. You are buying into the narrative that Jimmy wants you to believe. KAT should do all he can to get Thibs fired and Jimmy's ass gone. KAT is the man and he's telling them to get fucked. I'm respecting KAT more and more.

KAT's doing a good job of making Jimmy Butler look convincing.


KAT needs to have tunnel vision. Block all that crap out and play ball. KAT is like a really good singer who had a bad day and proceeded to have a shitty concert that happened to be in front of millions of people. All people will remember is that he sucks live. KAT can't keep letting all of this happen and be silent if he's gonna play this way.

https://fastbreakdaily.com/2018/10/27/timberwolves-heat-resume-talks/


Heat have new offer. Looks like its Richardson Bam and a 1st. And trying to get third team to take dieng.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Cam asked earlier in this thread for more out-of-the-box thinking...well, here you go.

After watching KAT in the playoffs last season and in almost every game this year, I'm beginning to think that Butler is not the guy we should be trading...it's KAT. I loved him up until the playoffs last year, but I'm becoming more and more convinced he has no heart, and is not the right guy to have as the cornerstone of this franchise. KAT brings back more in a trade than Butler, and I'm confident Butler signs a long-term deal here if KAT is gone.

But the first step is to fire Thibs...today. If I'm Glen I fire Thibs today, and watch a few games to see how the team responds. Maybe the results are so good he decides to keep both Butler and KAT. Or maybe KAT returns to the pre-playoffs KAT, and Glen continues to look for the best deal for Butler. Or...maybe KAT continues to pout, short-arm shots and ask to be taken out after airballing a three, and Glen changes his focus on who should be traded (if he hasn't already).


Butler was awful last night, but he has been a much better player this season than KAT...much better. If KAT is the reason Butler wants to leave (and I think it is), he needs to be considered for trade. I'm tired of watching him play with less passion than Wiggins.

KAT is my favorite and current Wolf, and possibly all time favorite, but I'll trade anyone for the right price. But that's a separate thread.

You and I have been around the block a few times. We have seen hundreds of guys in our lives that everyone thought they could fix. And there's been literally thousands I could name on the national level. How about guys from Minnesota and/or have Minnesota connections.

The Patera brothers. Ron Magers. Bob Stinson. Grant Hart. Tommy Kramer. Kent Hrbek. Mitch Lee. Keith Millard. Randy Moss. Koren Robinson. Spreewell. Cassell. Eddie Griffin. Percy Harvin. Miguel Sano.

The warning signs were there on all those guys, and if you ask anyone connected with them, if they had it to do over, would have sold high when they had the chance. The Wolves have that chance.

Butler going to go somewhere new that some on this board will think is a great deal, some will think is a fair deal, and some will whine about. Shortly after that, one of his coaches and/or teammates is going to do something he doesn't like. Fail to switch a pick. Take a contested shot when he was open. Talk about how Burger King makes better chicken nuggets than McDonalds. Whatever. And then JimmyBricks is going have a pouty-fit. And if that new team hasn't already extended him, they will announce they won't. And then all the guys who thought it was a great deal will be over the moon, all the guys who thought it was a fair deal will be happier, and all the guys who thought it was a bad deal will pretend they never had a problem with it, just like they never wanted Afflalo or Biyambo.

And then he can play on one-year MLE deals for a few years. Then he can tell a Sports Illustrated in the "Where are they now?" issue that he would do it all again, just like Percy Harvin, and everyone else in the NBA is the one with the problem and not him.

And the Wolves will either make those picks/players work, or they won't.

BUT HE HAS TO GO.

I don't see anything I disagree with there.

Thank you. I hated sullying the good name of Grant Hart, but a point needed to be made.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I hear everyone's arguments about how KAT's pouting might be justified, but I'm sorry...I'm just not sympathetic at all. I'm all right with him being angry with Butler (assuming the gossip is true, and only Butler and the GF know for sure), but a true warrior channels that anger and plays harder rather than turning into a snowflake. It really makes me wonder what else in the future might put KAT in pout mode, and that just isn't the definition of a warrior...and I want to build this team around warriors. Jim Peterson is generally a homer, and you can feel the disgust he has for KAT right now. "If KAT's going to play soft like that, you might as well put in Gorgui". Those words are quite telling to me, and you don't hear him criticizing Butler.

But again, no moves until the real problem is taken care of...Thibs. I'm fairly confident that the real character of KAT and Butler will be revealed when Thibs is thankfully replaced. Only then can the Wolves make a move that I will feel comfortable with.

^^

I want a guy who's gonna tell Thibs and Jimmy to go fuck themselves and dominate out there taking this team from them. Rather than pout or sand bag it until they are gone, dominate, show you can be the cornerstone and then flex on them by getting Thibs fired and Jimmy traded. The best players have that power because they earned it on the court. LeBron the GM and coach is very real. AD can tell NO to do whatever he wants and they're gonna do it. KAT could have that power, but instead he's crumbling into pieces when the going gets tough. Building a team around that is very worrisome.

This pouting narrative is nonsense. You are buying into the narrative that Jimmy wants you to believe. KAT should do all he can to get Thibs fired and Jimmy's ass gone. KAT is the man and he's telling them to get fucked. I'm respecting KAT more and more.

KAT's doing a good job of making Jimmy Butler look convincing.

KAT needs to have tunnel vision. Block all that crap out and play ball. KAT is like a really good singer who had a bad day and proceeded to have a shitty concert that happened to be in front of millions of people. All people will remember is that he sucks live. KAT can't keep letting all of this happen and be silent if he's gonna play this way.

Wild -

I've been trying to take a more sympathic view of KAT and look at this in a broader context before boing ape-shit over a 6 game slump, which is really the first extended slump of his 250-game career of otherwise extremely consistently high-level basketball.

However, I have to agree with you about what KAT absolutely has to do. I think your take should be the last word on KAT for a while. In the meantime, let's see what kind of deal we get for Butler and how long we're stuck with Thibodeau.

crazysauce wrote:https://fastbreakdaily.com/2018/10/27/timberwolves-heat-resume-talks/


Heat have new offer. Looks like its Richardson Bam and a 1st. And trying to get third team to take dieng.

As you know, that's the deal I've always wanted. But that deal wouldn't work under he salary match requirements. The Wolves or a third team would have to take Waiters, Olynyk, James Johnson, Tyler Johnson, Whiteside or Dragic. Obviously, the Heat won't trade Whiteside if they're trading Whiteside. Nor would they trade Dragic, a key piece to the the short-term success they're seeking in trading for Butler. So it would be Waiters, one of the Johnsons or Olynyk.

One deal that would work would be the following:

Wolves Get: Richardson, Adebayo, Waiters & Miami's 2019 first
Miami Gets: Butler & McLemore
Kings Get: Gorgui.

The salaries would work. But the problems is this. What incentive would the Kings have to take Gorgui? I would think he Kings (or any third team) would have to get a pick and I would hope it would not be Miami's 2019 pick. Maybe it would be Miami's 2019 second round pick, which the Wolves own. Or perhaps it would be Miami's 2023 first rounder.

crazysauce wrote:https://fastbreakdaily.com/2018/10/27/timberwolves-heat-resume-talks/


Heat have new offer. Looks like its Richardson Bam and a 1st. And trying to get third team to take dieng.

What do you know about Fastbreak Daily? Any validity at all? I think I would rather have the 4 first round picks and Gordon.