Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

I don't have the full confidence of this group to pick the right guy but honestly I'm not sure if I would feel really good about getting the right guy except for a handful of teams were making the pick. Maybe we can Danny Ainge someone and trade down and get a good player anyway. Lol

Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nJc61D5o1Q

Camden wrote:If the Wolves actually keep the pick, I'm hoping they have the gumption to take James Wiseman and bolster the interior. As I've argued in the past, he makes sense for many reasons -- specifically, his defensive potential and ability to stretch the floor vertically. They don't make guys with his physical tools all that often and in drafting him you're theoretically making Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell's lives easier on both ends of the court.

Cam - Taking Wiseman would definitely be a bold move. If the Wolves are set on keeping the pick, then I wouldn't complain if they picked him. His physical tools are really impressive. He could augment KAT on the offensive end and complement KAT on the defensive end. But I'm concerned about reports questioning both his motor and his basketball IQ. So I see it as more of a dice roll than I'd like, although any pick is sort of a dice roll. What are your thoughts on concerns about his motor and IQ relative to those same concerns many have raised about Ball and Edwards?

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:If the Wolves actually keep the pick, I'm hoping they have the gumption to take James Wiseman and bolster the interior. As I've argued in the past, he makes sense for many reasons -- specifically, his defensive potential and ability to stretch the floor vertically. They don't make guys with his physical tools all that often and in drafting him you're theoretically making Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell's lives easier on both ends of the court.

Cam - Taking Wiseman would definitely be a bold move. If the Wolves are set on keeping the pick, then I wouldn't complain if they picked him. His physical tools are really impressive. He could augment KAT on the offensive end and complement KAT on the defensive end. But I'm concerned about reports questioning both his motor and his basketball IQ. So I see it as more of a dice roll than I'd like, although any pick is sort of a dice roll. What are your thoughts on concerns about his motor and IQ relative to those same concerns many have raised about Ball and Edwards?

Questions concerning his motor certainly are subjective. I can only say that based on what I've seen of him that wasn't an issue, though many young players that come up through AAU are more prone to taking plays off than they used to. I'm seeing those motor concerns are specific to his days in high school where he was on a loaded team. I wouldn't be surprised if those guys checked out every once in a while as they were beating the piss out of the opposition. Anyways, I don't think it's a real concern. He competes.

As far as Wiseman's IQ and ability to learn in general, I would put this as a positive for him and not a weakness. Considering he missed out on valuable experience at Memphis he's likely behind his peers in some aspects given that he didn't get that on-court education that comes from actually playing the game, but he also is lauded for being a defensive playmaker and advanced post scorer (with room to grow) for his age. Natural ability can get you far in basketball, but I think he's more than that. And you don't usually win Gatorade Player of the Year without having some smarts. We're talking about a guy that had a 4.0 GPA and is fluent in Chinese. The light is on upstairs, if you know what I mean. Get David Vanterpool in his ear and let's see what kind of player is there.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.

I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.

I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.

Simmons might make 1st team all defense this year. He is an elite defender, now he might get helped with embiid on defense but he is very good on that end

....yet he has one of the worst defensive ratings among Sixers starters and last season (a full one) his team was much better defensively when he was on the bench. That doesn't sound like a 1st team defender to me.

I get that he looks the part. But at the end of the day, a great defender actually should have a net positive impact on team defense. For whatever reason, he just isn't a difference maker on that end.

And to your point, he was playing with the likes of Embiid and Horford. Imagine him with sieves like KAT and Russell and his decent-ish defense will make even less of a difference to this team.

He certainly won't make us worse defensively, but I don't see him moving the needle much the other way.

We are going to disagree on this one Q. Stan Van Gundy said during the sixers playoff have that Ben Simmons is the best defender in the NBA (I don't believe that but he did say it), Raja Bell former NBA player, Cavs front office member and now ringer podcast member listed Simmons as a top 5 defender in the NBA. According to cleaningtheglass.com the 76ers are 3.1 pts better per 100 possessions defensively when Simmons is on the floor what is in the 79th percentile in the NBA and overall even he plays the 76ers are 108.0 pts/per 100 what is 77th percentile in the NBA. Also 4 of his top 5 lineups he is in are above average defensively which only one of those lineups are with embiid.

All that plus a good chance he will be voted to the all defensive team, its hard for me not to say he isn't an elite defender

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.

I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.

I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.

Simmons might make 1st team all defense this year. He is an elite defender, now he might get helped with embiid on defense but he is very good on that end

....yet he has one of the worst defensive ratings among Sixers starters and last season (a full one) his team was much better defensively when he was on the bench. That doesn't sound like a 1st team defender to me.

I get that he looks the part. But at the end of the day, a great defender actually should have a net positive impact on team defense. For whatever reason, he just isn't a difference maker on that end.

And to your point, he was playing with the likes of Embiid and Horford. Imagine him with sieves like KAT and Russell and his decent-ish defense will make even less of a difference to this team.

He certainly won't make us worse defensively, but I don't see him moving the needle much the other way.

We are going to disagree on this one Q. Stan Van Gundy said during the sixers playoff have that Ben Simmons is the best defender in the NBA (I don't believe that but he did say it), Raja Bell former NBA player, Cavs front office member and now ringer podcast member listed Simmons as a top 5 defender in the NBA. According to cleaningtheglass.com the 76ers are 3.1 pts better per 100 possessions defensively when Simmons is on the floor what is in the 79th percentile in the NBA and overall even he plays the 76ers are 108.0 pts/per 100 what is 77th percentile in the NBA. Also 4 of his top 5 lineups he is in are above average defensively which only one of those lineups are with embiid.

All that plus a good chance he will be voted to the all defensive team, its hard for me not to say he isn't an elite defender

According to the NBA.com stats, he's never had a season where the team has been better defensively with him on the court versus off (not sure why there is a disconnect with cleaningtheglass). The lineup data is shaky because 5-man lineups have very few minutes together so prone to big swings based on a couple of dominant (or horrific) stretches.

I will accept the fact some pretty credible people have lauded his defense, but it's odd to me someone who is allegedly so dominant defensively doesn't seem to matter that much on that end of the floor to his team's success. Perhaps some of the steals he doesn't get result in easy buckets because he gambles. May be his lack of outside shooting affects floor balance and teams can fast-break against his units easier. There are sometimes real subtleties to defense that are hard to see or measure.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.

I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.

I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.

Simmons might make 1st team all defense this year. He is an elite defender, now he might get helped with embiid on defense but he is very good on that end

....yet he has one of the worst defensive ratings among Sixers starters and last season (a full one) his team was much better defensively when he was on the bench. That doesn't sound like a 1st team defender to me.

I get that he looks the part. But at the end of the day, a great defender actually should have a net positive impact on team defense. For whatever reason, he just isn't a difference maker on that end.

And to your point, he was playing with the likes of Embiid and Horford. Imagine him with sieves like KAT and Russell and his decent-ish defense will make even less of a difference to this team.

He certainly won't make us worse defensively, but I don't see him moving the needle much the other way.

We are going to disagree on this one Q. Stan Van Gundy said during the sixers playoff have that Ben Simmons is the best defender in the NBA (I don't believe that but he did say it), Raja Bell former NBA player, Cavs front office member and now ringer podcast member listed Simmons as a top 5 defender in the NBA. According to cleaningtheglass.com the 76ers are 3.1 pts better per 100 possessions defensively when Simmons is on the floor what is in the 79th percentile in the NBA and overall even he plays the 76ers are 108.0 pts/per 100 what is 77th percentile in the NBA. Also 4 of his top 5 lineups he is in are above average defensively which only one of those lineups are with embiid.

All that plus a good chance he will be voted to the all defensive team, its hard for me not to say he isn't an elite defender

According to the NBA.com stats, he's never had a season where the team has been better defensively with him on the court versus off (not sure why there is a disconnect with cleaningtheglass). The lineup data is shaky because 5-man lineups have very few minutes together so prone to big swings based on a couple of dominant (or horrific) stretches.

I will accept the fact some pretty credible people have lauded his defense, but it's odd to me someone who is allegedly so dominant defensively doesn't seem to matter that much on that end of the floor to his team's success. Perhaps some of the steals he doesn't get result in easy buckets because he gambles. May be his lack of outside shooting affects floor balance and teams can fast-break against his units easier. There are sometimes real subtleties to defense that are hard to see or measure.

Yeah I'm not sold on this plan either. Plus we already have a point guard and that's where his highest value is.

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.

I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.

I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.

Simmons might make 1st team all defense this year. He is an elite defender, now he might get helped with embiid on defense but he is very good on that end

....yet he has one of the worst defensive ratings among Sixers starters and last season (a full one) his team was much better defensively when he was on the bench. That doesn't sound like a 1st team defender to me.

I get that he looks the part. But at the end of the day, a great defender actually should have a net positive impact on team defense. For whatever reason, he just isn't a difference maker on that end.

And to your point, he was playing with the likes of Embiid and Horford. Imagine him with sieves like KAT and Russell and his decent-ish defense will make even less of a difference to this team.

He certainly won't make us worse defensively, but I don't see him moving the needle much the other way.

We are going to disagree on this one Q. Stan Van Gundy said during the sixers playoff have that Ben Simmons is the best defender in the NBA (I don't believe that but he did say it), Raja Bell former NBA player, Cavs front office member and now ringer podcast member listed Simmons as a top 5 defender in the NBA. According to cleaningtheglass.com the 76ers are 3.1 pts better per 100 possessions defensively when Simmons is on the floor what is in the 79th percentile in the NBA and overall even he plays the 76ers are 108.0 pts/per 100 what is 77th percentile in the NBA. Also 4 of his top 5 lineups he is in are above average defensively which only one of those lineups are with embiid.

All that plus a good chance he will be voted to the all defensive team, its hard for me not to say he isn't an elite defender

According to the NBA.com stats, he's never had a season where the team has been better defensively with him on the court versus off (not sure why there is a disconnect with cleaningtheglass). The lineup data is shaky because 5-man lineups have very few minutes together so prone to big swings based on a couple of dominant (or horrific) stretches.

I will accept the fact some pretty credible people have lauded his defense, but it's odd to me someone who is allegedly so dominant defensively doesn't seem to matter that much on that end of the floor to his team's success. Perhaps some of the steals he doesn't get result in easy buckets because he gambles. May be his lack of outside shooting affects floor balance and teams can fast-break against his units easier. There are sometimes real subtleties to defense that are hard to see or measure.

Yeah I'm not sold on this plan either. Plus we already have a point guard and that's where his highest value is.

What part of positional versatility is lost upon you? Ben Simmons can and routinely does defend 1-5. D'Angelo Russell is capable of playing either guard position. Our goal should be to accumulate the best players we can and fill in supporting pieces around them. I just don't understand the "we already have a point guard so we don't need another great player that can handle the ball" type thinking.

Camden wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:

Camden wrote:The thing with Anthony Edwards is that he's never won. His play has never led his team to winning. Not in high school. Not at the University of Georgia. I have my doubts that he'll ever win at the NBA level either. He's supremely talented, but he's just not conducive to winning. His shot selection is a big issue and his inconsistent effort on defense is troubling although to be expected for youngsters. You'd wish that a guy with his ability and physical makeup would make his presence felt a lot more on that end of the floor.

I found this comment interesting. Just quick research online says his team won the state championship as Junior, and lost in title game as a senior. So.......

It wasn't Edwards' team that season, as in he wasn't who led them to victory. They successfully defended their title in 2008, Edwards' junior season and first year on the team after transferring. He had a whopping nine points in the championship game. Excuse me if I don't attribute their winning to his play.

But you specifically said "he has never won". And that is clearly a false statement. His HS teams (both Jr/Sr) year won at an elite level.....including a state championship and runner-up. And you state "his play never led to winning". Huh? Again, his Jr/Sr year led to state championship and runner up. So what you are saying is DESPITE his mediocrity, his team still won. Yet in those years he was considered a 4 star and then 5 star recruit (and many already saw him as the future #1 NBA pick). I am not even going to look up his stats, but I would bet money they were extremely good....and the driver to his teams success.

And the other thing being mentioned in many posts is related to his inconsistent effort. This article certainly paints a bit different picture.....at least in terms of his last several years of HS.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/1/15/18139281/anthony-edwards-basketball-recruiting-nba-draft

Look, I have just watched videos like everyone else. But Edwards certainly has many special qualities that are seemingly being overlooked. Great shooter? Nope. But man, from an athletic standpoint, he certainly seems to have a lot of Westbrook to his game.

To be clear, I would not be opposed to Simmons, especially when paired with a guard and Center that can shoot like DLO and KAT. Lots of intrigue offensively. I'm only skeptical about how good he actually is on defense.

Assuming Simmons is even made available, the key question is whether he is better than Wiseman, Edwards, or Ball could ever be minus the other assets we'd have to give up to make salaries work.

Camden0916 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.

I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.

I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.

Simmons might make 1st team all defense this year. He is an elite defender, now he might get helped with embiid on defense but he is very good on that end

....yet he has one of the worst defensive ratings among Sixers starters and last season (a full one) his team was much better defensively when he was on the bench. That doesn't sound like a 1st team defender to me.

I get that he looks the part. But at the end of the day, a great defender actually should have a net positive impact on team defense. For whatever reason, he just isn't a difference maker on that end.

And to your point, he was playing with the likes of Embiid and Horford. Imagine him with sieves like KAT and Russell and his decent-ish defense will make even less of a difference to this team.

He certainly won't make us worse defensively, but I don't see him moving the needle much the other way.

We are going to disagree on this one Q. Stan Van Gundy said during the sixers playoff have that Ben Simmons is the best defender in the NBA (I don't believe that but he did say it), Raja Bell former NBA player, Cavs front office member and now ringer podcast member listed Simmons as a top 5 defender in the NBA. According to cleaningtheglass.com the 76ers are 3.1 pts better per 100 possessions defensively when Simmons is on the floor what is in the 79th percentile in the NBA and overall even he plays the 76ers are 108.0 pts/per 100 what is 77th percentile in the NBA. Also 4 of his top 5 lineups he is in are above average defensively which only one of those lineups are with embiid.

All that plus a good chance he will be voted to the all defensive team, its hard for me not to say he isn't an elite defender

According to the NBA.com stats, he's never had a season where the team has been better defensively with him on the court versus off (not sure why there is a disconnect with cleaningtheglass). The lineup data is shaky because 5-man lineups have very few minutes together so prone to big swings based on a couple of dominant (or horrific) stretches.

I will accept the fact some pretty credible people have lauded his defense, but it's odd to me someone who is allegedly so dominant defensively doesn't seem to matter that much on that end of the floor to his team's success. Perhaps some of the steals he doesn't get result in easy buckets because he gambles. May be his lack of outside shooting affects floor balance and teams can fast-break against his units easier. There are sometimes real subtleties to defense that are hard to see or measure.

Yeah I'm not sold on this plan either. Plus we already have a point guard and that's where his highest value is.

What part of positional versatility is lost upon you? Ben Simmons can and routinely does defend 1-5. D'Angelo Russell is capable of playing either guard position. Our goal should be to accumulate the best players we can and fill in supporting pieces around them. I just don't understand the "we already have a point guard so we don't need another great player that can handle the ball" type thinking.

Having position versatility is important but it's not what we should be looking for in Simmons. If he's gonna be part of a big 3 he needs a clear role and that's point where he's most effective. He is useless as a non shooting forward.