Q12543 wrote:Josh Richardson appears to continue playing really well. Cam, do you still think we over-hyped him?
I'm not disappointed with the Covington/Saric pairing the least bit, but it does appear Richardson is the best player mentioned in the various scenarios discussed.
I mean he's putting up stats on a sub .500 team. Lavine is putting up stats on a really bad Chicago team. Meanwhile it seems Covington and Saric have played big roles in turning our defense around. Sometimes getting winners over stat guys is a better move.
You do realize the other 7-10 guys you're playing with matter too, no? When Richardson is on the floor, Miami is a plus team.
And I'm not even complaining about RoCo/Saric. I'm good with the trade. I'm just saying Richardson is the best player we could have gotten, but it meant taking on a bad contract, etc. I get it.
You're basing your stats on good stats on bad team guys though. Richardson is a good player, but it can be argued Covington's defensive impact on our team is greater than what Richardson could give us on both sides of the ball. A number 1 option on a bad team doesn't equal a top 2-3 option on a good team. I'm just saying take some of those stats with a grain of salt. Everyone sees these numbers and just assumes that's what they'll look like regardless of situation and that's not how it works. He comes here with Teague running the offense as the number 3-4 option and he'd just look a lot different from the number 1 option he is in Miami. Meanwhile Covington continues to thrive as a transformative role player.
Those numbers are amazing, Khans! I always loved Butler's work on defense, but at least in this small sample size, RoCo is just that much better. And when you add Saric into the deal, it becomes close to grand theft larceny.
Jason Richardson plays defense also. Is he as good as Covington? Probably not be he has a pretty good reputation. The arguement is whether or not he is the best player we could have gotten in a trade. I think that's likely. However in a few months we may be looking at Saric as a similar type player to Richardson in terms of value as a starter while having Covington who is a high level starter himself and...those guys will be making a significant amount less than the Miami package that it will alllow the Wolves to sign at least one worthwhile player in FA. Maybe Richardson was worth the hype relatively speaking but Covington and Saric were seemingly well underrated when this deal was done. I'm glad we have both guys. I think it was the best deal we could have done.
Yeah, I'm not disparaging JRich at all, but he's not in the same league defensively with Rob. To pick up two players like Rob and Dario with no bad contracts attached was nothing short of brilliant. Thibs and Butler frustrated me throughout the entire process, but you can't rationally argue with the results.
I'm pleased with Dario and RoCo so far. But there is a rational argument for the Richardson deal that the Wolves reportedly rejected. By the way, my friend's source said the deal Thibodeau rejected was for Richardson, Olynyk and Miami's lottery-protected 2019 1st, not Waiters. The rational argument relates to the Wolves' need for an elite player who can create his own shot to pair with KAT if this team is going to compete for the top few spots in the West. The Butler trade was a rare opportunity to possibly get a player with the potential to be that elite guy. I think Josh Richardson has the potential to be that guy. The best hope for Wiggins is that he becomes a 3-and D guy, which is exactly what Covington already is and what Okogie is likely to become. The odds of getting the elite wing or PG talent we need to fit best with KAT and Wiggins via free agency or the draft are pretty slim. The Butler trade was an additional chance to get that kind of player, but the Wolves instead used the deal to bring in two really nice rotation players.
Right now, I'm thrilled that we got those two given the situation the Wolves were in thanks to Butler's attitude and Thibodeau's mismanagement. I love the way Covington is playing and I love the positive impact he's having on both the team's play AND the team's chemistry. I also like Dario's potential. He hasn't played particularly well since coming here, but you can see his hustle and potential. He needs to knock down his three-point shots far more consistently than he has so far this season both with Philly and the Wolves. But he's smart and he competes. So I'm not going to complain about having those two guys. Whether we're better off with the two guys we got rather than Richardson and Olynyk is an open question in my view. The franchise definitely landed on its feet when it could have fallen flat on its face under the circumstances. I'm excited to see how things develop going forward.
Q12543 wrote:Josh Richardson appears to continue playing really well. Cam, do you still think we over-hyped him?
I'm not disappointed with the Covington/Saric pairing the least bit, but it does appear Richardson is the best player mentioned in the various scenarios discussed.
I mean he's putting up stats on a sub .500 team. Lavine is putting up stats on a really bad Chicago team. Meanwhile it seems Covington and Saric have played big roles in turning our defense around. Sometimes getting winners over stat guys is a better move.
You do realize the other 7-10 guys you're playing with matter too, no? When Richardson is on the floor, Miami is a plus team.
And I'm not even complaining about RoCo/Saric. I'm good with the trade. I'm just saying Richardson is the best player we could have gotten, but it meant taking on a bad contract, etc. I get it.
You're basing your stats on good stats on bad team guys though. Richardson is a good player, but it can be argued Covington's defensive impact on our team is greater than what Richardson could give us on both sides of the ball. A number 1 option on a bad team doesn't equal a top 2-3 option on a good team. I'm just saying take some of those stats with a grain of salt. Everyone sees these numbers and just assumes that's what they'll look like regardless of situation and that's not how it works. He comes here with Teague running the offense as the number 3-4 option and he'd just look a lot different from the number 1 option he is in Miami. Meanwhile Covington continues to thrive as a transformative role player.
Those numbers are amazing, Khans! I always loved Butler's work on defense, but at least in this small sample size, RoCo is just that much better. And when you add Saric into the deal, it becomes close to grand theft larceny.
Jason Richardson plays defense also. Is he as good as Covington? Probably not be he has a pretty good reputation. The arguement is whether or not he is the best player we could have gotten in a trade. I think that's likely. However in a few months we may be looking at Saric as a similar type player to Richardson in terms of value as a starter while having Covington who is a high level starter himself and...those guys will be making a significant amount less than the Miami package that it will alllow the Wolves to sign at least one worthwhile player in FA. Maybe Richardson was worth the hype relatively speaking but Covington and Saric were seemingly well underrated when this deal was done. I'm glad we have both guys. I think it was the best deal we could have done.
Yeah, I'm not disparaging JRich at all, but he's not in the same league defensively with Rob. To pick up two players like Rob and Dario with no bad contracts attached was nothing short of brilliant. Thibs and Butler frustrated me throughout the entire process, but you can't rationally argue with the results.
I'm pleased with Dario and RoCo so far. But there is a rational argument for the Richardson deal that the Wolves reportedly rejected. By the way, my friend's source said the deal Thibodeau rejected was for Richardson, Olynyk and Miami's lottery-protected 2019 1st, not Waiters. The rational argument relates to the Wolves' need for an elite player who can create his own shot to pair with KAT if this team is going to compete for the top few spots in the West. The Butler trade was a rare opportunity to possibly get a player with the potential to be that elite guy. I think Josh Richardson has the potential to be that guy. The best hope for Wiggins is that he becomes a 3-and D guy, which is exactly what Covington already is and what Okogie is likely to become. The odds of getting the elite wing or PG talent we need to fit best with KAT and Wiggins via free agency or the draft are pretty slim. The Butler trade was an additional chance to get that kind of player, but the Wolves instead used the deal to bring in two really nice rotation players.
Right now, I'm thrilled that we got those two given the situation the Wolves were in thanks to Butler's attitude and Thibodeau's mismanagement. I love the way Covington is playing and I love the positive impact he's having on both the team's play AND the team's chemistry. I also like Dario's potential. He hasn't played particularly well since coming here, but you can see his hustle and potential. He needs to knock down his three-point shots far more consistently than he has so far this season both with Philly and the Wolves. But he's smart and he competes. So I'm not going to complain about having those two guys. Whether we're better off with the two guys we got rather than Richardson and Olynyk is an open question in my view. The franchise definitely landed on its feet when it could have fallen flat on its face under the circumstances. I'm excited to see how things develop going forward.
Good post Lip. There is a good argument that Richardson is the best player in the trade. The thing that comes down to is how good does Richardson become. If he becomes a top 40 player or better then argument can be made that the wolves didn't get the best trade. But the bad contract connected with it and who knows right now the Heat aren't in the playoffs and that 1st becomes a 2nd. In the end I didn't think Richardson ends up being top end talent. So I am thrilled on what we got back because we are a team again.
This is also why I love basketball, who knows if Richardson would be better for this team because its another guy who is at his best when he has the ball in his hand. Meaning less of the ball in Towns hand. Who knows though we won't see what of happened.
Even though Thibs mismanaged the situation we were able to Saric in the deal by waiting. It was a by product of Thibs mismanagement but we got another asset out of it.
Im happy what we got and I know I posted it in another post but I would of taken the Butler risk 100% of the time knowing at worst case scenario we ended up with Cov/Saric/Bayless and a 2nd
Q12543 wrote:Josh Richardson appears to continue playing really well. Cam, do you still think we over-hyped him?
I'm not disappointed with the Covington/Saric pairing the least bit, but it does appear Richardson is the best player mentioned in the various scenarios discussed.
I mean he's putting up stats on a sub .500 team. Lavine is putting up stats on a really bad Chicago team. Meanwhile it seems Covington and Saric have played big roles in turning our defense around. Sometimes getting winners over stat guys is a better move.
You do realize the other 7-10 guys you're playing with matter too, no? When Richardson is on the floor, Miami is a plus team.
And I'm not even complaining about RoCo/Saric. I'm good with the trade. I'm just saying Richardson is the best player we could have gotten, but it meant taking on a bad contract, etc. I get it.
You're basing your stats on good stats on bad team guys though. Richardson is a good player, but it can be argued Covington's defensive impact on our team is greater than what Richardson could give us on both sides of the ball. A number 1 option on a bad team doesn't equal a top 2-3 option on a good team. I'm just saying take some of those stats with a grain of salt. Everyone sees these numbers and just assumes that's what they'll look like regardless of situation and that's not how it works. He comes here with Teague running the offense as the number 3-4 option and he'd just look a lot different from the number 1 option he is in Miami. Meanwhile Covington continues to thrive as a transformative role player.
Those numbers are amazing, Khans! I always loved Butler's work on defense, but at least in this small sample size, RoCo is just that much better. And when you add Saric into the deal, it becomes close to grand theft larceny.
Jason Richardson plays defense also. Is he as good as Covington? Probably not be he has a pretty good reputation. The arguement is whether or not he is the best player we could have gotten in a trade. I think that's likely. However in a few months we may be looking at Saric as a similar type player to Richardson in terms of value as a starter while having Covington who is a high level starter himself and...those guys will be making a significant amount less than the Miami package that it will alllow the Wolves to sign at least one worthwhile player in FA. Maybe Richardson was worth the hype relatively speaking but Covington and Saric were seemingly well underrated when this deal was done. I'm glad we have both guys. I think it was the best deal we could have done.
Yeah, I'm not disparaging JRich at all, but he's not in the same league defensively with Rob. To pick up two players like Rob and Dario with no bad contracts attached was nothing short of brilliant. Thibs and Butler frustrated me throughout the entire process, but you can't rationally argue with the results.
I'm pleased with Dario and RoCo so far. But there is a rational argument for the Richardson deal that the Wolves reportedly rejected. By the way, my friend's source said the deal Thibodeau rejected was for Richardson, Olynyk and Miami's lottery-protected 2019 1st, not Waiters. The rational argument relates to the Wolves' need for an elite player who can create his own shot to pair with KAT if this team is going to compete for the top few spots in the West. The Butler trade was a rare opportunity to possibly get a player with the potential to be that elite guy. I think Josh Richardson has the potential to be that guy. The best hope for Wiggins is that he becomes a 3-and D guy, which is exactly what Covington already is and what Okogie is likely to become. The odds of getting the elite wing or PG talent we need to fit best with KAT and Wiggins via free agency or the draft are pretty slim. The Butler trade was an additional chance to get that kind of player, but the Wolves instead used the deal to bring in two really nice rotation players.
Right now, I'm thrilled that we got those two given the situation the Wolves were in thanks to Butler's attitude and Thibodeau's mismanagement. I love the way Covington is playing and I love the positive impact he's having on both the team's play AND the team's chemistry. I also like Dario's potential. He hasn't played particularly well since coming here, but you can see his hustle and potential. He needs to knock down his three-point shots far more consistently than he has so far this season both with Philly and the Wolves. But he's smart and he competes. So I'm not going to complain about having those two guys. Whether we're better off with the two guys we got rather than Richardson and Olynyk is an open question in my view. The franchise definitely landed on its feet when it could have fallen flat on its face under the circumstances. I'm excited to see how things develop going forward.
Good post Lip. There is a good argument that Richardson is the best player in the trade. The thing that comes down to is how good does Richardson become. If he becomes a top 40 player or better then argument can be made that the wolves didn't get the best trade. But the bad contract connected with it and who knows right now the Heat aren't in the playoffs and that 1st becomes a 2nd. In the end I didn't think Richardson ends up being top end talent. So I am thrilled on what we got back because we are a team again.
This is also why I love basketball, who knows if Richardson would be better for this team because its another guy who is at his best when he has the ball in his hand. Meaning less of the ball in Towns hand. Who knows though we won't see what of happened.
Even though Thibs mismanaged the situation we were able to Saric in the deal by waiting. It was a by product of Thibs mismanagement but we got another asset out of it.
Im happy what we got and I know I posted it in another post but I would of taken the Butler risk 100% of the time knowing at worst case scenario we ended up with Cov/Saric/Bayless and a 2nd
It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out but it's worth mentioning Olynyk has not been playing much and the word has been he hasn't been particularly effective especially on the defensive end. I thought considering the various Miami deals he could have been fairly useful but if he would have turned into another Dieng type that's kinda decent but not a huge upgrade over a vet min guy then...we could also have dodged a bullet. It's still early though.
Also I looked up Saric's Per 36 numbers and his 2 point percentage. They were pretty good actually a little surprising actually in a good way. I thought other than the Denver game he had played well but didn't think the traditional stats would show it. If he starts hitting his 3's and do what he has been doing he is going to put up some pretty good numbers and be pretty valuable. The guy is putting up 11/6 in 24mpg. Not too shabby.
If the deal was JRich, Olynyk and a first with no Waiters attached, you could argue that that was at least as good a deal as the Philly deal...JRich/Cov and Saric/Olynyk could be characterized as equal, so the pick would make the Miami deal more attractive. But we don't know for sure that Miami would have done it without including Waiters, and if not, the Philly deal becomes far superior. 2 things I can say with certainty: Thibs got away unloading Butler better than I thought he would, and Saric/Cov are actually performing better than I would have anticipated at the time of the deal. It's nice to have watchable basketball again, at least when we're not playing Memphis, that is.
60WinTim wrote:Suns, Lakers and Grizzlies all lose to East teams. The East is doing their part. Now let's go beat the Cavs!
1 game behind the kings for 8th and 4.5 behind the warriors for first. We are also tied for the second-longest current winning streak in the west. Optimism people.
longstrangetrip wrote:If the deal was JRich, Olynyk and a first with no Waiters attached, you could argue that that was at least as good a deal as the Philly deal...JRich/Cov and Saric/Olynyk could be characterized as equal, so the pick would make the Miami deal more attractive. But we don't know for sure that Miami would have done it without including Waiters, and if not, the Philly deal becomes far superior. 2 things I can say with certainty: Thibs got away unloading Butler better than I thought he would, and Saric/Cov are actually performing better than I would have anticipated at the time of the deal. It's nice to have watchable basketball again, at least when we're not playing Memphis, that is.
My friend's source (a very good source who my friend introduced me to) said it was definitely Richardson, Olynyk and Miami's lottery protected 1st. Thibs insisted on another future 1st and cash, which Miami rejected. You're right that Olynyk isn't doing very well this season. And I love the way Covington is playing so far. But I would have taken the Miami deal for two reasons: (1) I think Richardson can be an allstar caliber player and that he's a better fit as a wing who can create off the dribble; and (2) an extra first round pick likely in the high teens would be very valuable. But I could be wrong about Richardson and Saric is still a wild card for me who, at age 24, still has upside. And no doubt Covington has really lifted the play of this team, especially defensively. It's a fun debate. But bottom line is that I generally like watching our team again.
John Collins had 23 points on 11-16 shooting to go with 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 block yesterday in an Atlanta victory over the Hornets. Did anyone see Justin Patton's stats from yesterday? :)
lipoli390 wrote:John Collins had 23 points on 11-16 shooting to go with 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 block yesterday in an Atlanta victory over the Hornets. Did anyone see Justin Patton's stats from yesterday? :)
Yeah he had like 31 likes from his latest Instagram photo. Just wait till Embiid finishes mentoring him on how to use Twitter. :)
lipoli390 wrote:John Collins had 23 points on 11-16 shooting to go with 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 block yesterday in an Atlanta victory over the Hornets. Did anyone see Justin Patton's stats from yesterday? :)
Yeah he had like 31 likes from his latest Instagram photo. Just wait till Embiid finishes mentoring him on how to use Twitter. :)
Lol. Actually, a source from inside the Wolves organization told me recently that Patton showed little interest in developing his game and a lot more interest in the NBA lifestyle. I was told that his rehab effort was half-hearted and that the entire Wolves organization had soured on Patton. It was his attitude, I'm told, not his foot issues, that caused the organization to decline the option on his rookie deal. That's part of why the Wolves included him in the Philly deal. They just didn't want him around as part of the organization.
