Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:For reference, per 36 rookie seasons:

Turner (19) - 16.3 pts / 8.7 reb / 1.2 apg / 49.8% fg / 21.4% 3fg
McDaniels (20) - 10.2 pts / 7.3 reb / 2.2 apg / 44.7% fg / 36.4% 3fg

A couple of things since... statistically, Turner stagnated in a lot of ways. Turner shoots some threes with mixed results now. As high as 38.8% in 2019 and as low as 33.5% this season. His scoring has actually gone down to 14.6 per 36. And his rebounding has largely leveled off or gone down, too. He blocks a lot more shots though... leading the league 2x in the past 3 seasons.

As for McDaniels, we'll see. First of all, many envision him as a 3-and-D guy... which might add more value for the Wolves long-term than another big next to Towns. And there's a good chance he might improve like most top guys do each year. We definitely saw flashes.

But I just want people to imagine being a Pacers fan back in 2016. If we're all THIS excited over McDaniels... just how excited were the Pacers with Turner?

Or how excited should Chicago be about Patrick Williams? Or ATL with Okongwu? Or Detroit with Hayes? Or Detroit with Bey? Or Memphis with Tillman? Those are just wings/bigs from last year's draft in similar situations.

The league is loaded with promising young talent every season. We're just not used to seeing it here from unexpected sources. I think McDaniels is going to be legit. His footwork was awesome. He seemed so much better than the boxscore showed. But is it a guaranteed thing that he improves significantly? Add him to the list of dozens of other NBA players. Some pan out and some don't.

It's a good post Abe. I'll add that Myles Turner is a 25 year old center sized guy that has had trouble staying healthy. That's a legit red flag.

Of course Rick Carlisle Indiana's coach is now on record saying he loves both guys and is looking forward to coaching both of them getting the best out of 2 good players. Is that real? I'll say this that my guess is if Rick Calrlise got the job in Indiana I'd guess with what he has accomplished he will have some influence on the roster. My guess is he is likely pretty happy coaching the talent there too especially if they can all actually stay healthy. Carlisle isn't a guy that has to play a certain way either he has a variety of different rosters...which made him leaving Dallas...interesting. My guess is if a team wants Turner they are going to have to put together a pretty good package unless Carlisle is just saying stuff and they are basically planning to deal him away.

Just to nit-pick Abe's examples a bit....

- Xavier Tillman and Saddiq Bey both had more college experience and are older than Jaden. Both have also fully matured into their bodies. Hell, Tillman has two kids already. He looks like he's 30! I really like both players and many of us were begging the Wolves to nab Saddiq Bey. But I think comparing them to Jaden isn't quite apples to apples yet.

- Killian Hayes was awful last year.

- Patrick Williams was indeed very promising. He was also the 4th pick in the draft.

I think what gives Jaden a 50/50 shot at being really good is the strides he made from his one year in college to his growth as a rookie. He obviously got control of his temper and never even came close to getting a tech from what I recall. He also was a better shooter for the Wolves than he was in college. That by itself is a miracle for this franchise. And lastly, he still has physical upside based on how skinny he is. While he'll never be a bruiser, it's hard to believe that he won't add some additional level of bulk and strength to his frame.

Bottom line....I think there are valid reasons to be optimistic about his prospects.

Let's say hypothetically Nikola Mirotic decided he wanted to come back to the NBA and was open to being a starter and playing with his little buddy Bolmaro. :) Let's also say the Wolves had some reasonable amount of money because they made some sort of cost cutting move. What sort of contract would you think Mirotic would be worth?

I don't think there is much of any possibility Mirotic is coming over but I think it's interesting to consider because Europe is a spot you can get worthwhile players from as free agents. Daniel Theis who is supposedly going to get a nice payday this offseason and is a really solid player is just one example.

Q12543 wrote:Just to nit-pick Abe's examples a bit....

- Xavier Tillman and Saddiq Bey both had more college experience and are older than Jaden. Both have also fully matured into their bodies. Hell, Tillman has two kids already. He looks like he's 30! I really like both players and many of us were begging the Wolves to nab Saddiq Bey. But I think comparing them to Jaden isn't quite apples to apples yet.

- Killian Hayes was awful last year.

- Patrick Williams was indeed very promising. He was also the 4th pick in the draft.

I think what gives Jaden a 50/50 shot at being really good is the strides he made from his one year in college to his growth as a rookie. He obviously got control of his temper and never even came close to getting a tech from what I recall. He also was a better shooter for the Wolves than he was in college. That by itself is a miracle for this franchise. And lastly, he still has physical upside based on how skinny he is. While he'll never be a bruiser, it's hard to believe that he won't add some additional level of bulk and strength to his frame.

Bottom line....I think there are valid reasons to be optimistic about his prospects.

We're all optimistic about his prospects. The question is just how much is being optimistic and how much is being realistic.

A 50/50 shot at being "really good" would be awesome. But there's value in that 50% of not panning out too if it means he could be used to bring in a player with more proven chops. I'm not suggesting the Wolves should do anything but hold onto McDaniels and develop him... only that he's not as much of an anomaly (compared to other prospects on other teams) as one would think reading this forum.


[Note: No idea why I included Hayes. LOL He was indeed gawd-awful last season... AND... he's a PG. Maybe I got him confused with Vassel... who is a much better comp?]

I get Abe's point. I actually put McDaniels chances of becoming "really good" (not necessarily an all-star) at significantly better than 50-50. I'd say he was already really good last season as a rookie with no Summer League or NBA training camp. If really good means a high-caliber NBA starter on par with Myles Turner, then I'd put his chances at 60-40. Some may consider those odds inflated, but that's my sense. But whether it's 60-40 or 50-50, Abe's right about giving proper weight to the percentage of him not panning out in comparison to what Myles already delivers. At the same time, Monster is right that you have to also give weight to Turner's injury history, including his current toe issue.

My thought about pursuing Turner is that (1) he would be a perfect fit for what the Wolves need most, i.e., a high-quality defensive big/rim-protector. It's a bonus that he's also a two-way player; and (2) it would cost less to get him than it would cost to get John Collins, Rashaun Holmes or especially Ben Simmons. The very things that give some pause about pursuing Turner are the reasons I think he's gettable for a decent price this summer. I tend to think Carlisle was just blowing smoke and that he'd like to reshape the roster and realizes that the Sabonis/Turner pairing isn't working well. At the same time, I just see too much promise in McDaniels to include in a deal for Turner. I would consider including him in a deal for John Collins, but even then I don't think I'd pull the trigger on it. If nothing else, I like the Ant-McDaniels duo as a starting place if the Wolves decide to move on from the KAT-DLO duo in a year or two. I also see McDaniels contributing significantly in the near term because of his high basketball IQ and defensive chops.