Minnesota Sports Forum

The line I draw is not to include KAT, Ant or Jaden or more than two lightly protected draft picks and I absolutely want DLO moved in any trade as I think it would be addition by subtraction. With Ben, DLO becomes a very overpaid outside shooter who I'd rather fill with someone who can shoot without being such a liability on defense. I don't mind trading anyone else including Beasley, Naz or anyone else Philly might value.

The nightmare scenario would be to trade Jaden and three first rounders or any more picks/swap than that for Simmons. We don't know if Ant will become a complete player, we don't know if KAT will get injured or bolt in two years and there is no assurances Ben will work out as well as hoped or he won't become injury prone.

While I'd be fine with first scenario, the second scenario is what scares me with Rosas as he may be hellbent on winning now to try and save his job and willing to pay a steep asking price even if it means trading Jaden and many future picks. For now, no news is good news.

Camden wrote:Lip, I feel confident saying that Ben Simmons has played his last game in Philadelphia. He likely won't even report to training camp -- nor should he -- as he hasn't had any communication with the Sixers organization this off-season. Philadelphia can choose to find a trade for him before the season begins or they can continue to find suitors for Simmons during the season, which would seem to be a distraction that no franchise wants hanging over them. I think they're in a pretty bad position right now and every day that goes by without a trade reduces the possible value they'll be able to extract for him.

Once again, Sacramento might end up being the team that lands Simmons, but the deals suggested have likely already been declined. Not to mention those deals don't get Philadelphia any closer to an All-Star caliber player, which should be the goal for the Sixers considering their win-now state.

Cam - You should be right about Philly not keeping Simmons into the season. But you never know with Morey. I actually think the Kings will eventually make Fox available for Simmons.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, I feel confident saying that Ben Simmons has played his last game in Philadelphia. He likely won't even report to training camp -- nor should he -- as he hasn't had any communication with the Sixers organization this off-season. Philadelphia can choose to find a trade for him before the season begins or they can continue to find suitors for Simmons during the season, which would seem to be a distraction that no franchise wants hanging over them. I think they're in a pretty bad position right now and every day that goes by without a trade reduces the possible value they'll be able to extract for him.

Once again, Sacramento might end up being the team that lands Simmons, but the deals suggested have likely already been declined. Not to mention those deals don't get Philadelphia any closer to an All-Star caliber player, which should be the goal for the Sixers considering their win-now state.

Cam - You should be right about Philly not keeping Simmons into the season. But you never know with Morey. I actually think the Kings will eventually make Fox available for Simmons.

I would be incredibly surprised if Sacramento puts De'Aaron Fox in any offer for Ben Simmons, but if they do then Minnesota will not be able to contend with an offer like that. I'm not sure the Kings even get significantly better doing so.

KG4Ever wrote:The line I draw is not to include KAT, Ant or Jaden or more than two lightly protected draft picks and I absolutely want DLO moved in any trade as I think it would be addition by subtraction. With Ben, DLO becomes a very overpaid outside shooter who I'd rather fill with someone who can shoot without being such a liability on defense. I don't mind trading anyone else including Beasley, Naz or anyone else Philly might value.

The nightmare scenario would be to trade Jaden and three first rounders or any more picks/swap than that for Simmons. We don't know if Ant will become a complete player, we don't know if KAT will get injured or bolt in two years and there is no assurances Ben will work out as well as hoped or he won't become injury prone.

While I'd be fine with first scenario, the second scenario is what scares me with Rosas as he may be hellbent on winning now to try and save his job and willing to pay a steep asking price even if it means trading Jaden and many future picks. For now, no news is good news.

I'm mostly with you on this, KG. While I was pleasantly surprised by much of Dlo's play at the end of the season, I worry that this franchise can't be successful with $30 million tied up in a guy who, while admittedly a big-time scorer and clever distributor, generally gets outscored when he's on the court because of his poor defense. He's a fun player to watch at times and also appears to be a very good teammate, and he has the ability to create his own shot better than anyone else on our team. But when his TS% is consistently below the league average, I don't know that shot volume is necessarily a good thing. I don't know if I would go so far as to say "addition by subtraction", because there was some evidence at the end of the season that Dlo can team well (on offense) with KAT. But Simmons would be a far superior use of our $30 million, and I wouldn't hesitate to include anyone other than the 3 guys you mention in order to get the deal done.

And while this might not be a popular take here, I wouldn't immediately hang up on Philly if they asked for Jaden to be included in the deal. He impressed us a lot as a rookie, but his stats were nothing special. And while he was given a chance to shine in Vegas, I wasn't impressed with his overall offensive performance. I'm still high on the kid, but the more I think about it, if Philly asked for Dlo and Jaden, I'm probably saying yes.

Camden wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, I feel confident saying that Ben Simmons has played his last game in Philadelphia. He likely won't even report to training camp -- nor should he -- as he hasn't had any communication with the Sixers organization this off-season. Philadelphia can choose to find a trade for him before the season begins or they can continue to find suitors for Simmons during the season, which would seem to be a distraction that no franchise wants hanging over them. I think they're in a pretty bad position right now and every day that goes by without a trade reduces the possible value they'll be able to extract for him.

Once again, Sacramento might end up being the team that lands Simmons, but the deals suggested have likely already been declined. Not to mention those deals don't get Philadelphia any closer to an All-Star caliber player, which should be the goal for the Sixers considering their win-now state.

Cam - You should be right about Philly not keeping Simmons into the season. But you never know with Morey. I actually think the Kings will eventually make Fox available for Simmons.

I would be incredibly surprised if Sacramento puts De'Aaron Fox in any offer for Ben Simmons, but if they do then Minnesota will not be able to contend with an offer like that. I'm not sure the Kings even get significantly better doing so.

I think the Kings need to make a major move this off-season more than the Wolves do. The Wolves core is impressive if they can stay healthy and rookies from last season can continue on development trajectory they were on the last half of the season. And we've gone from a guy who shouldn't be coaching in the NBA to what I think is a very good head coach. We'll have a full training camp for this young team to come together under Finch. In contrast, I don't think the Kings have an impressive core. Fox is their only elite player. Hield is very good. Holmes and Barnes are solid. Haliburton has potential. But I'll take KAT, DLO, Beasley, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and Beverley in a heartbeat. The Kings had the second worst defense in the NBA last season - even worse than the Wolves. And I've read that the King's ownership is getting impatient and wants to take a big step forward this upcoming season. I think the pressure on them to make a big move this off-season will eventually compel them agree on a Fox for Simmons swap. Like you, I'm not sure that would make the Kings much better, but I think they're ready to do anything to take the chance on a deal like that.

KG4Ever wrote:The line I draw is not to include KAT, Ant or Jaden or more than two lightly protected draft picks and I absolutely want DLO moved in any trade as I think it would be addition by subtraction. With Ben, DLO becomes a very overpaid outside shooter who I'd rather fill with someone who can shoot without being such a liability on defense. I don't mind trading anyone else including Beasley, Naz or anyone else Philly might value.

The nightmare scenario would be to trade Jaden and three first rounders or any more picks/swap than that for Simmons. We don't know if Ant will become a complete player, we don't know if KAT will get injured or bolt in two years and there is no assurances Ben will work out as well as hoped or he won't become injury prone.

While I'd be fine with first scenario, the second scenario is what scares me with Rosas as he may be hellbent on winning now to try and save his job and willing to pay a steep asking price even if it means trading Jaden and many future picks. For now, no news is good news.

That's also where I'd draw the line, KG4. I'd also draw the line at giving up both DLO and Beasley. We can't afford to lose two of our three good 3-point shooters to get a guy who can't shoot from the perimeter at all. I still think the best deal for all concerned at this point would be DLO, Layman, Reid and one lightly-protected 1st for Simmons. Or maybe two lightly protected 1sts instead of Reid.

FNG wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:The line I draw is not to include KAT, Ant or Jaden or more than two lightly protected draft picks and I absolutely want DLO moved in any trade as I think it would be addition by subtraction. With Ben, DLO becomes a very overpaid outside shooter who I'd rather fill with someone who can shoot without being such a liability on defense. I don't mind trading anyone else including Beasley, Naz or anyone else Philly might value.

The nightmare scenario would be to trade Jaden and three first rounders or any more picks/swap than that for Simmons. We don't know if Ant will become a complete player, we don't know if KAT will get injured or bolt in two years and there is no assurances Ben will work out as well as hoped or he won't become injury prone.

While I'd be fine with first scenario, the second scenario is what scares me with Rosas as he may be hellbent on winning now to try and save his job and willing to pay a steep asking price even if it means trading Jaden and many future picks. For now, no news is good news.

I'm mostly with you on this, KG. While I was pleasantly surprised by much of Dlo's play at the end of the season, I worry that this franchise can't be successful with $30 million tied up in a guy who, while admittedly a big-time scorer and clever distributor, generally gets outscored when he's on the court because of his poor defense. He's a fun player to watch at times and also appears to be a very good teammate, and he has the ability to create his own shot better than anyone else on our team. But when his TS% is consistently below the league average, I don't know that shot volume is necessarily a good thing. I don't know if I would go so far as to say "addition by subtraction", because there was some evidence at the end of the season that Dlo can team well (on offense) with KAT. But Simmons would be a far superior use of our $30 million, and I wouldn't hesitate to include anyone other than the 3 guys you mention in order to get the deal done.

And while this might not be a popular take here, I wouldn't immediately hang up on Philly if they asked for Jaden to be included in the deal. He impressed us a lot as a rookie, but his stats were nothing special. And while he was given a chance to shine in Vegas, I wasn't impressed with his overall offensive performance. I'm still high on the kid, but the more I think about it, if Philly asked for Dlo and Jaden, I'm probably saying yes.

I would say not to DLO and Jaden. If I said yes, I wouldn't include any future 1st-round picks. it would be DLO, Jaden, Layman or Okogie and a couple future 2nd rounders at most.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Lip, I feel confident saying that Ben Simmons has played his last game in Philadelphia. He likely won't even report to training camp -- nor should he -- as he hasn't had any communication with the Sixers organization this off-season. Philadelphia can choose to find a trade for him before the season begins or they can continue to find suitors for Simmons during the season, which would seem to be a distraction that no franchise wants hanging over them. I think they're in a pretty bad position right now and every day that goes by without a trade reduces the possible value they'll be able to extract for him.

Once again, Sacramento might end up being the team that lands Simmons, but the deals suggested have likely already been declined. Not to mention those deals don't get Philadelphia any closer to an All-Star caliber player, which should be the goal for the Sixers considering their win-now state.

Cam - You should be right about Philly not keeping Simmons into the season. But you never know with Morey. I actually think the Kings will eventually make Fox available for Simmons.

I would be incredibly surprised if Sacramento puts De'Aaron Fox in any offer for Ben Simmons, but if they do then Minnesota will not be able to contend with an offer like that. I'm not sure the Kings even get significantly better doing so.

I think the Kings need to make a major move this off-season more than the Wolves do. The Wolves core is impressive if they can stay healthy and rookies from last season can continue on development trajectory they were on the last half of the season. And we've gone from a guy who shouldn't be coaching in the NBA to what I think is a very good head coach. We'll have a full training camp for this young team to come together under Finch. In contrast, I don't think the Kings have an impressive core. Fox is their only elite player. Hield is very good. Holmes and Barnes are solid. Haliburton has potential. But I'll take KAT, DLO, Beasley, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and Beverley in a heartbeat. The Kings had the second worst defense in the NBA last season - even worse than the Wolves. And I've read that the King's ownership is getting impatient and wants to take a big step forward this upcoming season. I think the pressure on them to make a big move this off-season will eventually compel them agree on a Fox for Simmons swap. Like you, I'm not sure that would make the Kings much better, but I think they're ready to do anything to take the chance on a deal like that.

The Kings have a bunch of guards so a Fox Simmons deal makes a lot of sense. I haven't watched Fox the past year so I'm not sure how he has progressed. He has some nice numbers could the Kings actually demand something back for a Simmons Fox swap?

One issue I see with the Kings dealing Fox is then they may not have a guy that is a star type player. They would have a roster that would be built to compliment Simmons though.

Personally I do Jaden for Simmons in a heartbeat. This is coming from a huge Jaden guy.

Simmons is significantly better at everything besides shooting then Jaden (obviously shooting is very important) just think Simmons has proven he can be a 1b on the #1 seed in the East. We would acquire the best perimeter defender in the NBA, an elite playmaker, good rebounder and elite transition player for a guy at the moment like a very solid 3 and D guy. I love Jaden but he has a long ways to go to becoming a borderline All-NBA or even a All Star caliber player. Jaden has a really loose dribble, was a terrible FT shooter, hadn't shown iso ability or playmaker ability, he also just an average rebounder.

At the end of the day I love Jaden. Think he will impact winning. Just think when you can acquire a borderline all nba guy. You do it. Just don't think Jaden ever comes close to that (I hope he does because I do have a lot of his rookie cards)

FNG wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:The line I draw is not to include KAT, Ant or Jaden or more than two lightly protected draft picks and I absolutely want DLO moved in any trade as I think it would be addition by subtraction. With Ben, DLO becomes a very overpaid outside shooter who I'd rather fill with someone who can shoot without being such a liability on defense. I don't mind trading anyone else including Beasley, Naz or anyone else Philly might value.

The nightmare scenario would be to trade Jaden and three first rounders or any more picks/swap than that for Simmons. We don't know if Ant will become a complete player, we don't know if KAT will get injured or bolt in two years and there is no assurances Ben will work out as well as hoped or he won't become injury prone.

While I'd be fine with first scenario, the second scenario is what scares me with Rosas as he may be hellbent on winning now to try and save his job and willing to pay a steep asking price even if it means trading Jaden and many future picks. For now, no news is good news.

I'm mostly with you on this, KG. While I was pleasantly surprised by much of Dlo's play at the end of the season, I worry that this franchise can't be successful with $30 million tied up in a guy who, while admittedly a big-time scorer and clever distributor, generally gets outscored when he's on the court because of his poor defense. He's a fun player to watch at times and also appears to be a very good teammate, and he has the ability to create his own shot better than anyone else on our team. But when his TS% is consistently below the league average, I don't know that shot volume is necessarily a good thing. I don't know if I would go so far as to say "addition by subtraction", because there was some evidence at the end of the season that Dlo can team well (on offense) with KAT. But Simmons would be a far superior use of our $30 million, and I wouldn't hesitate to include anyone other than the 3 guys you mention in order to get the deal done.

And while this might not be a popular take here, I wouldn't immediately hang up on Philly if they asked for Jaden to be included in the deal. He impressed us a lot as a rookie, but his stats were nothing special. And while he was given a chance to shine in Vegas, I wasn't impressed with his overall offensive performance. I'm still high on the kid, but the more I think about it, if Philly asked for Dlo and Jaden, I'm probably saying yes.

I don't know if I am just looking for stuff to make my point. But I just do back to Dlo last year with the Nets. The Nets when Dlo was on the court were an above average defensive team (72nd percentile). In no way do I think Dlo is a good defender but there is at least 1 data point that shows it is possible to have an above average defense with Dlo in the lineup. (It wasn't like the Nets had elite defenders surrounding Dlo either)