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Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:21 am
by thedoper
TeamRicky wrote:thedoper wrote:The real question is where this ranks in all time Twolves days? On par with drafting Garnett? I am still a bit in shock. Thibs had an effect here and we get a guy who loves the way he grinds. So much for Thibs alienating his former players. Go Wolves!!!
Trading for Butler is one thing, but him resigning with us when he has options is quite another. We know Thibs likes Butler, but we have no idea how Butler feels about playing for Thibs again. Didn't he say he wanted to stay in Chicago?
You could look at it that way, or that Jimmy said that because he wanted to come to Minnesota instead of Cleveland. Either way I'm going to enjoy this moment and not get too wrapped up in the hypotheticals 2 years from now.
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:21 am
by worldK
A great deal for the wolves. Hated to see lavine go but as mentioned here numerous times already, butler is the best player and a top 15 player in the league that is in his prime. Cant question the trade.
Butler and wiggins are going to cause problems for opposing wings to defend. Wiggins always gets guarded by the best wing defender, now they will have to pick their poison with wig and butler. Butler is an upgrade to our wing defense, rebounding and playmaking.
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:22 am
by 60WinTim
There were many people that didn't think we could get Butler without giving up Wiggins. But Thibs pulled it off.
82games has KAT, Wiggins and Rubio as our top guys. We kept all three, and added Butler. Nice!
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:23 am
by 60WinTim
The Thibs presser. He has already talked to Jimmy, and Jimmy is thrilled.
http://kstp.com/sports/tom-thibodeau-press-conference-jimmy-butler-timberwolves-trade/4522933/
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:40 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
mrhockey89 wrote:The more I think about this trade the more I actually like it... (naturally)
- 2016-17 Real +/- Butler 7th in NBA, Lavine 388th in NBA
- Lavine 1 year left until he gets big pay bump. Especially coming off ACL tear and being a 1 way player (albeit a very good shooter). Butler multiple years left on a very reasonable deal before getting a big pay bump
- Butler the best player in the deal (which usually ends up what causes a team to win a deal)
- Butler knows Thibs' system, probably better than Lavine or Dunn
- Butler automatically will take the opponents best scorer on defense, which automatically will make Wiggins a better defender and a trickle down effect
- Injects more toughness into the club
- Not worried about Butler extending. Unless the team falls flat, he seems to be as safe of a star as we could have traded for
- Wolves automatically a more attractive FA destination, especially for a 3 and D guy
- We finally can go into a year expecting to make the playoffs, rather than hoping our young guys have all matured enough.
Everyone and their dog at the national and Chicago level are saying the Wolves fleeced the Bulls on this one. With that said, assuming Zach comes back healthy from his ACL, I think most people nationally are discounting his improvements too much.
Definitely looking at a fun year ahead.
Outstanding analysis of some of the peripheral benefits of this deal...I'm as excited as you are. Lip makes some good points, especially about losing our best 3-point shooter, but I think he will come around the first time he watches our new perimeter defense...it's going to be a thing of beauty with Wig guarding the weaker wing. In today's NBA a one-way player who can shoot and jump like Zach gets a max contract. Who do you want to give our third max contract to...Zach or Butler? I think that's a very easy question to answer. Great work, Thibs!!!!!
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:09 am
by kurrdog53 [enjin:7013678]
The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:23 am
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
kurrdog53 wrote:The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!
I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:23 am
by kekgeek
longstrangetrip wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:The more I think about this trade the more I actually like it... (naturally)
- 2016-17 Real +/- Butler 7th in NBA, Lavine 388th in NBA
- Lavine 1 year left until he gets big pay bump. Especially coming off ACL tear and being a 1 way player (albeit a very good shooter). Butler multiple years left on a very reasonable deal before getting a big pay bump
- Butler the best player in the deal (which usually ends up what causes a team to win a deal)
- Butler knows Thibs' system, probably better than Lavine or Dunn
- Butler automatically will take the opponents best scorer on defense, which automatically will make Wiggins a better defender and a trickle down effect
- Injects more toughness into the club
- Not worried about Butler extending. Unless the team falls flat, he seems to be as safe of a star as we could have traded for
- Wolves automatically a more attractive FA destination, especially for a 3 and D guy
- We finally can go into a year expecting to make the playoffs, rather than hoping our young guys have all matured enough.
Everyone and their dog at the national and Chicago level are saying the Wolves fleeced the Bulls on this one. With that said, assuming Zach comes back healthy from his ACL, I think most people nationally are discounting his improvements too much.
Definitely looking at a fun year ahead.
Outstanding analysis of some of the peripheral benefits of this deal...I'm as excited as you are. Lip makes some good points, especially about losing our best 3-point shooter, but I think he will come around the first time he watches our new perimeter defense...it's going to be a thing of beauty with Wig guarding the weaker wing. In today's NBA a one-way player who can shoot and jump like Zach gets a max contract. Who do you want to give our third max contract to...Zach or Butler? I think that's a very easy question to answer. Great work, Thibs!!!!!
I know you are down on Thibs the coach (agree to disagree) but is he getting an A+ for his gm from LST
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:40 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
kekgeek1 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:The more I think about this trade the more I actually like it... (naturally)
- 2016-17 Real +/- Butler 7th in NBA, Lavine 388th in NBA
- Lavine 1 year left until he gets big pay bump. Especially coming off ACL tear and being a 1 way player (albeit a very good shooter). Butler multiple years left on a very reasonable deal before getting a big pay bump
- Butler the best player in the deal (which usually ends up what causes a team to win a deal)
- Butler knows Thibs' system, probably better than Lavine or Dunn
- Butler automatically will take the opponents best scorer on defense, which automatically will make Wiggins a better defender and a trickle down effect
- Injects more toughness into the club
- Not worried about Butler extending. Unless the team falls flat, he seems to be as safe of a star as we could have traded for
- Wolves automatically a more attractive FA destination, especially for a 3 and D guy
- We finally can go into a year expecting to make the playoffs, rather than hoping our young guys have all matured enough.
Everyone and their dog at the national and Chicago level are saying the Wolves fleeced the Bulls on this one. With that said, assuming Zach comes back healthy from his ACL, I think most people nationally are discounting his improvements too much.
Definitely looking at a fun year ahead.
Outstanding analysis of some of the peripheral benefits of this deal...I'm as excited as you are. Lip makes some good points, especially about losing our best 3-point shooter, but I think he will come around the first time he watches our new perimeter defense...it's going to be a thing of beauty with Wig guarding the weaker wing. In today's NBA a one-way player who can shoot and jump like Zach gets a max contract. Who do you want to give our third max contract to...Zach or Butler? I think that's a very easy question to answer. Great work, Thibs!!!!!
I know you are down on Thibs the coach (agree to disagree) but is he getting an A+ for his gm from LST
I really like Thibs as PBO...not crazy about having the coach be the same guy as the PBO, but this deal alone solidifies my opinion that the Thibs/Leydon combo is solid. Yes, I didn't like the job Thibs did coaching last year and really thought he held us back, but who knows...maybe Zach was the main reason Thibs' defense was so poor. I suspect Thibs never thought Zach would be an adequate defender, and is a very happy man this morning.
Re: Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:55 am
by WildWolf2813
Goodbye, farewell, and amen