I will be devastated if we fall to 4 in the lottery

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Also, Myles Turner apparently got with a running coach and his form is much better. We'll see how the physical goes regarding his knees, but if he gets a clean bill of health and his running form is fixed he'd be a guy I seriously take a look at at the 4 spot. 84% from the line, 25% defensive rebounding rate and 4.7 blocks per 40 minutes. He definitely has the potential to develop into a stretch 5 as well and might have the athleticism to play both the 4 and 5 in the pro's, but I don't know for sure. If his health and running form are good he's got some great potential for the 4th pick. He won't be a great offensive threat for a few years, but he rebounds and blocks shots on the defensive end and has the potential like Towns to become a stretch big.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Khans, the issue with your statement is that you're banking on a draft pick who has a much better chance of being a role player or busting than being an all-star. On the other hand, Jordan is an all-star right now. He is elite as a rim protector, a help defender, a rebounder on both ends, and a put back/alley pop nightmare. He makes our team a ton better on defense, and he has plenty of use for this team on offense with rubio. If they offer me Jordan and their pick for #3 or #4 I'd take it for sure. Oh, and Jordan is an iron man when it comes to big men. He never misses games. That's huge in its own right.

I still don't do it. The guy is playing with two MVP candidates at the peak of their games. That's going to make everybody else look better. Their PnR works because CP3 shoots 50% from midrange so you have to focus your attention on CP3 first. We have Ricky Rubio. Teams are just going to let Rubio shoot that midrange shot and not give DJ a path to roll to the basket. I'm never paying the max to a guy who can't score more than 15 a game if I'm a GM. That's too much money for a guy who can't be a go-to option on offense on his own. There are no teams making it to the finals built on 2 of their top 3 pieces not being able to average more than 15 a game.

[mrhockey89]

Q/Cam, I think you guys are stretching my "KG can teach" statement a little further than it was meant. The point was merely a positioning comment, not that he'd make WCS the second coming of Dennis Rodman on the boards.

Coolbreaz, I don't think anyone "wants" to trade LaVine, it's more that he is one of the few somewhat tradeable pieces that hold some value that could even get another team to entertain a trade for a pick that high. Q is probably right that it'd take even more than that. It won't happen anyway, so no need to even feud about him.

[MikkeMan]

I still don't do it. The guy is playing with two MVP candidates at the peak of their games. That's going to make everybody else look better. Their PnR works because CP3 shoots 50% from midrange so you have to focus your attention on CP3 first. We have Ricky Rubio. Teams are just going to let Rubio shoot that midrange shot and not give DJ a path to roll to the basket. I'm never paying the max to a guy who can't score more than 15 a game if I'm a GM. That's too much money for a guy who can't be a go-to option on offense on his own. There are no teams making it to the finals built on 2 of their top 3 pieces not being able to average more than 15 a game.

I agree that CP3's superior mid range jump shot makes pick and roll with Jordan even more lethal. CP3 has however played with similar player earlier. During his New Orleans days, he played with Tyson Chandler and TC played similar role in offense than DeAndre playes currently. It really looked that CP3 created most of Chandler's offensive opportunities during his New Orleans days. But based on TC's scoring per 36 minutes and FG%, he has been even more effective later. And Chandler has played with some lesser PGs lately (Shumbert, Douglas, Lin, Davis 40-year old Kidd, Prigioni, Felton, Udrih, Nelson, Barea, Harris etc.)

So I think that while CP3 is great for creating scoring opportunities for bigs that play above the rim, it seems that when they learn that they can be effective also in other offenses. It has been also already proofed that DeAndre doesn't need Blake Griffin to be effective. He averaged 14.9 pts, 18.5 rbs with .68 FG% during 15 games stretch that Blake Griffin missed.

[bleedspeed]

Also, Myles Turner apparently got with a running coach and his form is much better. We'll see how the physical goes regarding his knees, but if he gets a clean bill of health and his running form is fixed he'd be a guy I seriously take a look at at the 4 spot. 84% from the line, 25% defensive rebounding rate and 4.7 blocks per 40 minutes. He definitely has the potential to develop into a stretch 5 as well and might have the athleticism to play both the 4 and 5 in the pro's, but I don't know for sure. If his health and running form are good he's got some great potential for the 4th pick. He won't be a great offensive threat for a few years, but he rebounds and blocks shots on the defensive end and has the potential like Towns to become a stretch big.

Man, I like Turner, but I would think it is harder to learn a new running form then shooting stroke. I would thinking it is more instinct. Turner shouldn't be a consideration in the top 4, but certainly would be a guy I could see in the top 10.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I still don't do it. The guy is playing with two MVP candidates at the peak of their games. That's going to make everybody else look better. Their PnR works because CP3 shoots 50% from midrange so you have to focus your attention on CP3 first. We have Ricky Rubio. Teams are just going to let Rubio shoot that midrange shot and not give DJ a path to roll to the basket. I'm never paying the max to a guy who can't score more than 15 a game if I'm a GM. That's too much money for a guy who can't be a go-to option on offense on his own. There are no teams making it to the finals built on 2 of their top 3 pieces not being able to average more than 15 a game.

I agree that CP3's superior mid range jump shot makes pick and roll with Jordan even more lethal. CP3 has however played with similar player earlier. During his New Orleans days, he played with Tyson Chandler and TC played similar role in offense than DeAndre playes currently. It really looked that CP3 created most of Chandler's offensive opportunities during his New Orleans days. But based on TC's scoring per 36 minutes and FG%, he has been even more effective later. And Chandler has played with some lesser PGs lately (Shumbert, Douglas, Lin, Davis 40-year old Kidd, Prigioni, Felton, Udrih, Nelson, Barea, Harris etc.)

So I think that while CP3 is great for creating scoring opportunities for bigs that play above the rim, it seems that when they learn that they can be effective also in other offenses. It has been also already proofed that DeAndre doesn't need Blake Griffin to be effective. He averaged 14.9 pts, 18.5 rbs with .68 FG% during 15 games stretch that Blake Griffin missed.

Has DJ ever been given the ball and been able to get a bucket on his own with no help? I don't think I've ever seen it and that's why he's not a max guy. 90-100% of his offense comes from foul shooting which he sucks at and being setup by other teammates. 92% of his shot attempts come from within 3 feet of the basket. That's why 71% FG% is not that impressive. His FG% drops to 37% from 3-10 feet. He has a usage rate of 14. Real stars are in the mid to high 20's. His best average was less than 15 PPG when Griffin was out when if he is as good as you make him out to be, they should have used him a lot more offensively to try to make up for missing Blake. There's a reason they didn't. The guy needs to be setup for almost everything he gets and you can't be a max player if you have to rely on others to be effective. Chandler isn't a max player. He is paid well, but he's not a max guy. DJ's not good enough. He's good, but he's not good enough to pay him 15+ million to keep him on his next contract. You have to at least have a semblance of your own offensive game at that point and he has nothing.

[TheFuture]

Why do you think he has to score 20 to be worth a damn. Is 20 points the threshold of a great player? Would you rather have Carmelo or DJ? JR Smith can create his offense and get you 20.. to me DJ is worth more than rubio money. He's a threat to get 20 boards every night. He can score 15 a night. He will block multiple shots a game and alter plenty more. He keeps opposing players out of the lane, plays great pnr d, help d, and one on one d. He's a top center in this league, something we don't have. LaVine, Wiggins, shabazz, martin, dieng etc. Can score points. He's something we severely lack. Oh, did I mention he doesn't miss games?

[TheFuture]

We have a piece in Wiggins right now... possibly 2 with LaVine. If we have a chance to surround a good player we have then we need to do it. Haven't we learned in the past that if we don't surround our great young player with quality talent that they will eventually leave because they get sick of the losing and lack of help? Eventually we have o stop banking in the draft!

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Why do you think he has to score 20 to be worth a damn. Is 20 points the threshold of a great player? Would you rather have Carmelo or DJ? JR Smith can create his offense and get you 20.. to me DJ is worth more than rubio money. He's a threat to get 20 boards every night. He can score 15 a night. He will block multiple shots a game and alter plenty more. He keeps opposing players out of the lane, plays great pnr d, help d, and one on one d. He's a top center in this league, something we don't have. LaVine, Wiggins, shabazz, martin, dieng etc. Can score points. He's something we severely lack. Oh, did I mention he doesn't miss games?

It's not just about scoring 20. It's about the fact that he can't give you any of his own accord. You have to sit him for all but the last two minutes of the 4th quarter until they fix intentional fouls and even then you still can't give him the ball because they'll just foul him right away. He can't play in the most important quarter of close games. He can't score in any volume capacity and has no ability to score without being setup by teammates. He allows teams back into games as early as the 3rd quarter with the hack a shaq strategy. His basketball skill is not setup to age well at all. His game is based on athleticism so once that goes he has nothing. By the time Wiggins is setup to possibly leave, DJ will be in his mid 30's and won't be an all-star anymore so he won't have a positive affect on that decision from Wiggins.

Or we could take a big this year who will also be entering in their prime at the same time as Wiggins and maximize our window rather than need to win in the first 4 years of Wiggin's career before your 2nd and 3rd best players start declining. DJ dunks, rebounds and plays defense. He's a rich man's Ben Wallace. Making moves now because of what could happen in 3 years but most likely 8 in today's NBA climate of restricted free agency is short sighted. Why go all in when Wiggins is 20? Keep stockpiling assets and go all in when he's 23-25 and you might hit on some pieces along the way that will be right in line to play their best basketball when Wiggins is playing his best basketball.

If we by some miracle can pull off getting DJ on a new 5 year max deal which would be tough to match in a sign and trade and would involve giving up some pieces you mention like a Dieng and/or Bazz, etc., you now have a guy who can leave after 5 years versus a draft pick who you can hold onto for 9 and could be better than DJ. And finally, why does DJ accept a sign and trade to MN right now after we were just the worst team in the league and he's on a contender in LA? It's the wrong player at the wrong time for the move to be made.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Q/Cam, I think you guys are stretching my "KG can teach" statement a little further than it was meant. The point was merely a positioning comment, not that he'd make WCS the second coming of Dennis Rodman on the boards.

Coolbreaz, I don't think anyone "wants" to trade LaVine, it's more that he is one of the few somewhat tradeable pieces that hold some value that could even get another team to entertain a trade for a pick that high. Q is probably right that it'd take even more than that. It won't happen anyway, so no need to even feud about him.

I hear you Hockey. It's more of a reaction to the accumulated effect of people talking about KG's much-anticipated impact on the team. Other than the few stints he actually played, his "mentoring" appeared to have no impact whatsoever on our Cs and PFs. Yet people keep using him as a crutch for our young players ("KG can help with that!"). There is only so much he can do with 20+ year old grown men. I'm not buying it....