Wolves/Lakers GDT...LST a game-time decision

[Monster]

You can complain about Thibs all you want (and there is plenty to complain about) BUT guys he brings in keep looking like smart acquisitions. Rose is looking terrific and even hitting 3's. Taj has looked very good most of his time here and now jacking up 3's and making them. Butler even as an ass is a good player. The defense is and has been a problem but I like some of the things I see out there. Honestly I think figuring out how to defend in this new NBA is going to be a challenge. Towns defense has looked more legit so that's encouraging. It would have been nice to get this one, but we didn't. It was mostly an entertaining game. The bench wasn't as good and its mostly been a positive this year. Jason Hart...Dude can play.

Monster, I think you are skewing things quite a bit. Were Cole, Jamal, Deng, Teague... smart acquisitions? Rose has played 3 above average games this season offensively speaking. Clearly a nice pickup for the minimum, but who knows how long he lasts playing the minutes he is. How about G's contract, or the offer made to Shabazz.

Thibs should have been shown the door when the info on the Butler debacle came out.

The $22M has to be the most compelling reason he's still here...

Realistically if you plan to replace him at the end of the year, the actual cost is only what you pay the interim guy for the remainder of the season. Unless of course Taylor is still contemplating keeping him beyond this year. I would assume a business tycoon would realize that.

To be more clear I meant to say the Bulls guys he has brought in have looked like good acquisitions. Thibs has been absolutely skewered for the Timberbulls stuff and those former Bulls players have all looked like very good players (Deng hasn't gotten his opportunity yet). The "3 good Rose games" are games he played well enough they could have been wins because of him. That's pretty good. I think we are not far away from The point where Rose isn't some fluke...assuming he can stay healthy which is still a question.

[Monster]

Jimmy continuing his hard work.

https://streamable.com/czwyq

Far be it from me to defend Jimmy, but he had blood on that hand and was probably trying to hide it.

I never really get why coaches leave guys in for multiple possessions when they are clearly hurting. I get it timeouts are valuable and you don't take out a guy every time he winces and you have to know your players etc but it seems like sometimes it would make sense to stop the game instead of playing 4.5 on 5 or whatever. It seems like taking a timeout and avoiding some poor possessions is bette than having one more timeout later in the game. I see this both at the NBA and college level.

[Monster]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

[AbeVigodaLive]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

Good point. Who among the Wolves coaches has shown any sign of legit (non-provincial/nepotism) potential? I remember I went through the coaches a couple years back... but there's still nobody there that jumps out.

- Malik Allen was with Detroit for four years with Van Gundy. That regime was fired after uneven results... in part because of no real team identity.
- Andy Greer is easily the most established asst. coach, now on his 7th team. He was with both J. Van Gundy and Thibodeau earlier in his career. But he's also never been considered head coach material... for good or bad. And with his two best stops coaching underneath two defensive guys... was he orchestrating things or just taking orders?
- Larry Greer is Andy's brother and in his first year. Is there anything to suggest there's more here than familiarity or nepotism?
- Ed Pinckney has bounced around a bit, but was lower than Greer on Thibs's staff in Chicago.
- Saunders gets mentioned the most as a potential coach. I assume only because of his age and his obvious coaching ties. We are a provincial lot after all...

[Monster]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

Good point. Who among the Wolves coaches has shown any sign of legit (non-provincial/nepotism) potential? I remember I went through the coaches a couple years back... but there's still nobody there that jumps out.

- Malik Allen was with Detroit for four years with Van Gundy. That regime was fired after uneven results... in part because of no real team identity.
- Andy Greer is easily the most established asst. coach, now on his 7th team. He was with both J. Van Gundy and Thibodeau earlier in his career. But he's also never been considered head coach material... for good or bad. And with his two best stops coaching underneath two defensive guys... was he orchestrating things or just taking orders?
- Larry Greer is Andy's brother and in his first year. Is there anything to suggest there's more here than familiarity or nepotism?
- Ed Pinckney has bounced around a bit, but was lower than Greer on Thibs's staff in Chicago.
- Saunders gets mentioned the most as a potential coach. I assume only because of his age and his obvious coaching ties. We are a provincial lot after all...

Good points and breakdown.

It's kinda interesting though how a few months ago Jon K did a piece about RJ Adelman who was killed around a year ago crossing the street in houston. There was a bunch of Adelmans that came along when he became coach and...well it was easy to wonder how much they deserved to be in their jobs. With RJ Inwandt even sure what he did. It turns out RJ wasn't just some guy that didn't know anything. Spoelstra met with him after the Finals and gives him credit for helping him with the offense they ran after losing their first finals with Lebron Wade and Bosh.

These assistants might have connections to Thibs...and might be good at their jobs. I'd say SVG is a pretty good coach. He might need the right roster but I do think he is a good coach. It might not be such a bad thing to be connected to any of those guys but I agree with your point.

Here are some more guys to mull over if you want to. Some of the video guys even have some possible provincial ties. A couple video guys don't but are young in the game. Also you didn't mention him but Jon Lucas III clearly has Thibs ties. He has put in his time though at least in other endeavors before retiring and becoming a coach.

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-coaching-staff-additions-and-promotions

[AbeVigodaLive]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

Good point. Who among the Wolves coaches has shown any sign of legit (non-provincial/nepotism) potential? I remember I went through the coaches a couple years back... but there's still nobody there that jumps out.

- Malik Allen was with Detroit for four years with Van Gundy. That regime was fired after uneven results... in part because of no real team identity.
- Andy Greer is easily the most established asst. coach, now on his 7th team. He was with both J. Van Gundy and Thibodeau earlier in his career. But he's also never been considered head coach material... for good or bad. And with his two best stops coaching underneath two defensive guys... was he orchestrating things or just taking orders?
- Larry Greer is Andy's brother and in his first year. Is there anything to suggest there's more here than familiarity or nepotism?
- Ed Pinckney has bounced around a bit, but was lower than Greer on Thibs's staff in Chicago.
- Saunders gets mentioned the most as a potential coach. I assume only because of his age and his obvious coaching ties. We are a provincial lot after all...

Good points and breakdown.

It's kinda interesting though how a few months ago Jon K did a piece about RJ Adelman who was killed around a year ago crossing the street in houston. There was a bunch of Adelmans that came along when he became coach and...well it was easy to wonder how much they deserved to be in their jobs. With RJ Inwandt even sure what he did. It turns out RJ wasn't just some guy that didn't know anything. Spoelstra met with him after the Finals and gives him credit for helping him with the offense they ran after losing their first finals with Lebron Wade and Bosh.

These assistants might have connections to Thibs...and might be good at their jobs. I'd say SVG is a pretty good coach. He might need the right roster but I do think he is a good coach. It might not be such a bad thing to be connected to any of those guys but I agree with your point.

Here are some more guys to mull over if you want to. Some of the video guys even have some possible provincial ties. A couple video guys don't but are young in the game. Also you didn't mention him but Jon Lucas III clearly has Thibs ties. He has put in his time though at least in other endeavors before retiring and becoming a coach.

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-coaching-staff-additions-and-promotions

Yes. Being the son of a great coach isn't necessarily a bad thing. You grow up around the game if nothing else. And everybody needs a foot in the door, whether it's through family, family friendships, weird collegial ties, et al.

That being said, is there anything we can point to from any of those assistants that suggests there's something special in play? In the case of Saunders, he's made it through multiple staffs... but the team continues to disappoint. How much of that ends up at his level? And if he was so good, would we have one breakout star or even stories surfacing about his impact?

[thedoper]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

Good point. Who among the Wolves coaches has shown any sign of legit (non-provincial/nepotism) potential? I remember I went through the coaches a couple years back... but there's still nobody there that jumps out.

- Malik Allen was with Detroit for four years with Van Gundy. That regime was fired after uneven results... in part because of no real team identity.
- Andy Greer is easily the most established asst. coach, now on his 7th team. He was with both J. Van Gundy and Thibodeau earlier in his career. But he's also never been considered head coach material... for good or bad. And with his two best stops coaching underneath two defensive guys... was he orchestrating things or just taking orders?
- Larry Greer is Andy's brother and in his first year. Is there anything to suggest there's more here than familiarity or nepotism?
- Ed Pinckney has bounced around a bit, but was lower than Greer on Thibs's staff in Chicago.
- Saunders gets mentioned the most as a potential coach. I assume only because of his age and his obvious coaching ties. We are a provincial lot after all...

Boy Abe you're just kicking us all when we're down. One way another there's no escape from Thibs. We may as well just accept it. That is why the best thing that could happen is if he moved upstairs and Saunders could be the good cop to his insanely evil overlord.

[Monster]

One more point on Thibs. Watching the Clippers broadcast the game was over half over and they mentioned how quiet Thibs had been. Oh they said he still was giving the refs and earful and stuff but they said usually the guy is so loud it comes through our headsets.

In last night's game it was the 4th quarter and it was a pretty intense part of the game. The camera panned to Thibs. He was standing there...looking about as cool as a cucumber. Ok that's going too far but really for Thibs he was. He was intent but not scowling and looked pretty relaxed. I was taken back a little bit by that. I still don't think Thibs is the guy for this team long term BUT I do think there should be some credit given to him for some changes he has made in how the team has played a more modern game and his demeanor on the floor. It seems like Thibs can change some. I'm curious to see how this plays out. In the past Thibs has eventually gone back to more of his old ways (4th quarter offense is part of that) but I'm curious of some of these new things stick.

I think what I wonder (most people don't believe is Thibs in general whichbis a fair position) is whether even if Thibs does see the evolution he needs to make whether he can teach and communicate that vision and even have a true understanding of how it would work and therefore impart it to his players. To me he doesn't actually have to do all of that himself either. Bringing in or empowering an assistant coach could be significant. Look at the Rockets they just begged their defensive coordinator Jeff B. to come help them out on that end.

Good point. Who among the Wolves coaches has shown any sign of legit (non-provincial/nepotism) potential? I remember I went through the coaches a couple years back... but there's still nobody there that jumps out.

- Malik Allen was with Detroit for four years with Van Gundy. That regime was fired after uneven results... in part because of no real team identity.
- Andy Greer is easily the most established asst. coach, now on his 7th team. He was with both J. Van Gundy and Thibodeau earlier in his career. But he's also never been considered head coach material... for good or bad. And with his two best stops coaching underneath two defensive guys... was he orchestrating things or just taking orders?
- Larry Greer is Andy's brother and in his first year. Is there anything to suggest there's more here than familiarity or nepotism?
- Ed Pinckney has bounced around a bit, but was lower than Greer on Thibs's staff in Chicago.
- Saunders gets mentioned the most as a potential coach. I assume only because of his age and his obvious coaching ties. We are a provincial lot after all...

Good points and breakdown.

It's kinda interesting though how a few months ago Jon K did a piece about RJ Adelman who was killed around a year ago crossing the street in houston. There was a bunch of Adelmans that came along when he became coach and...well it was easy to wonder how much they deserved to be in their jobs. With RJ Inwandt even sure what he did. It turns out RJ wasn't just some guy that didn't know anything. Spoelstra met with him after the Finals and gives him credit for helping him with the offense they ran after losing their first finals with Lebron Wade and Bosh.

These assistants might have connections to Thibs...and might be good at their jobs. I'd say SVG is a pretty good coach. He might need the right roster but I do think he is a good coach. It might not be such a bad thing to be connected to any of those guys but I agree with your point.

Here are some more guys to mull over if you want to. Some of the video guys even have some possible provincial ties. A couple video guys don't but are young in the game. Also you didn't mention him but Jon Lucas III clearly has Thibs ties. He has put in his time though at least in other endeavors before retiring and becoming a coach.

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-coaching-staff-additions-and-promotions

Yes. Being the son of a great coach isn't necessarily a bad thing. You grow up around the game if nothing else. And everybody needs a foot in the door, whether it's through family, family friendships, weird collegial ties, et al.

That being said, is there anything we can point to from any of those assistants that suggests there's something special in play? In the case of Saunders, he's made it through multiple staffs... but the team continues to disappoint. How much of that ends up at his level? And if he was so good, would we have one breakout star or even stories surfacing about his impact?

Its a good question. What Ryan has been praised for in the past was his work with guards improving theer ball handling and ability to do more with the ball. The lat person to give him credit was Rubio. Whether the results were there or not one way or another Rubio clearly looked/s more comfortable competent doing scoring things. Now...is that real? Is it enough? idk Its NBA assistants its not like the NFL or even baseball where guys are specifically working with one position group or side of the ball.

To me there are a numberof questiosn about the coaching staff now and previously but lets focus on the Thibs era.

1. Player development. Tyus Jones has steadily improved over his time as a Wolf. Towns has improved to some extent but it also feels like its not really...I mean he si a #1 overall pick we assume its gonna happen right? So...thats about it. Wait, Rubio did have a career year under Thibs. Lots of other guys havent seemed to get alot better and thats why we are here where we are. I felt for a while this player development can take time. This is Thibs 3rd year on the job. Was he going to get through to everyone in the first couple years and develop whatever to turn out guys? YOu would like to see more but I felt liek another year was maybe fair to give him. Okogie might be the best test of this.

2. Offense. Who on thisstaff is was an offensive guru? Ok Thibs or whoever didn't do a terrible job getting this talented group to be a good offense last year in terms of the offensive efficiency metric. It seems liek even Thibs realized that wasn't going to hold up with his team jacking up 3's and getting out and running this year. is there someone else that can help these guys move the ball more take advantage of players strengths? so far...no

3. Defense...yikes back to the drawing board...actually that might be a great idea and I honestly wonder if Thibs is doing that to a certain extent. every year it seems the game changes another level.

Bonus: just getting guys to play together and as a team and all that good stuff. I find this to be a tough one. NBA has roster turnover and all that but...new coach new players Jimmy Butler etc...you can come up with reasons (including injuries at key times) why its not always smooth rolling. For this team to show something...their needs to be more of the cohesion. I think there is one move they could make that would help that out some... =)

[AbeVigodaLive]

Hey Monster... just because it's a pretty crazy stat... and/or sorta relevant:

Tyus Jones is shooting 31.1% right now.
Ricky Rubio is shooting 31.5% right now.

Small sample size or not... both guys will always struggle with that... with and probably without Saunders.

[Monster]

Hey Monster... just because it's a pretty crazy stat... and/or sorta relevant:

Tyus Jones is shooting 31.1% right now.
Ricky Rubio is shooting 31.5% right now.

Small sample size or not... both guys will always struggle with that... with and probably without Saunders.

Well...um...that's something. One thing I will say about Tyus...I know some people don't like Tyus getting up shots but I do. He is taking about 12 shots per 36 instead of 8. The results of him putting the ball in the basket aren't good (as the stats here show but despite trying to do more...his turnover rate has dropped to an absurd 1 per 36 while also dishing out about 6 assists a game.

These poor shooting stats about PGs kinda reminds me of how a friend of mine (who is a Bucks fan) and I used to needle each other about the shooting percentages of Rubio and Jennings. Neither of us really liked Jennings game but I also recognized that even with his flaws he was an NBA player. I even have defended him a bit over the years. I know you liked Jennings game even less and...isn't kinda something than he is simply out of the league right now. Why? A big reason is he can't hit a 3 which used to be somewhat of his redeeming quality. He turned 29 in September. Maybe he will work his way back after playing in Europe or just make a nice paycheck playing elsewhere. I suppose there are a bunch of previously seeming worthwhile players like that now out of the league. Some kinda make sense because their games don't fit the new NBA as much. Some seem like they might have. Of course there is always lots of new talent good or bad or otherwise.