Minnesota Sports Forum

PorkChop wrote:My problem is that so many fans have shown way more patience for him and made more excuses for his failings than any player in the recent history of Minnesota sports. Why is that? How has he shown himself to be a franchise player? 2 of 4 years he's dealing with injuries and no one would dare call him injury prone . 3 years he's been a terrible shooter but fans just say give him time he'll figure that out. He's played with a top 5 player in the league and still couldn't lead this team to a .500 record. Why does he get so much rope?

I agree with your point that Rubio gets much more slack from the fan base than most Minnesota players. but your question of why he gets so much rope is easily answered...because he deserves it. Most fans recognize attitude and effort on the court, and are willing to overlook flaws for a longer time if they see that a guy is giving 100% and is a good teammate. That's why guys like Rubio, Brewer and Young are universally loved by the fans and get more rope, while guys like Love and Derrick Williams are lightening rods for controversy.

And your take that Ricky has had four years to perform as the face of the franchise is faulty. Love has been "the man" here throughout Ricky's career, and Ricky always deferred to him. Ricky has only had four games, not years, as the franchise guy, and his stats in those four games have been extraordinary.

And I don't think he deserves the injury prone label. That label should only be used for players that miss a lot of games for a variety of reasons, like Pek (feet, calf, now wrist). Rubio blew out a knee and severely rolled an ankle, two common events in basketball that would have benched any player for a long time. He's had two bad things happen to him, but I don't consider him injury-prone like Pek, who seems to miss time for a variety of unusual reasons.

PorkChop wrote:Ricky has had 4 years to establish himself. How many franchise players needed that much time to prove themselves? And he still hasnt completely.

There has been plenty of franchise (or at least all star level) players especially in point guard position that were not any better in their 4th year than Ricky:

Jason Kidd's stats in 4th year:
38.0 MIN .416 FG% .313 3P% .799 FT% 6.2 RBS 9.1 AST 2.0 STL 3.2 TO 11.6 PTS

Steve Nash's stats in 4th year:
27.4 MIN .477 FG% .403 3P% .882 FT% 2.2 RBS 4.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.8 TO 8.6 PTS

Chauncey Billup's stats in 4th year:
23.2 MIN .422 FG% .376 3P% .842 FT% 2.1 RBS 3.4 AST 0.7 STL 1.4 TO 9.3 PTS

Terrell Brandon's stats in 4th year:
29.3 MIN .448 FG% .397 3P% .855 FT% 2.8 RBS 5.4 AST 1.6 STL 2.1 TO 13.3 PTS

Jalen Rose's stats in 4th year:
20.8 MIN .478 FG% .342 3P% .728 FT% 2.4 RBS 1.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.6 TO 9.4 PTS

Rasheed Wallace's stats in 4th year:
28.9 MIN .508 FG% .419 3P% .732 FT% 4.9 RBS 1.2 AST 1.1 BLK 1.6 TO 12.8 PTS

Jermaine O'Neil's stats in 4th year:
12.3 MIN .486 FG% 0.0 3P% .582 FT% 3.3 RBS 0.3 AST 0.8 BLK 0.7 TO 3.9 PTS

All above players except Jalen Rose were selected later in their career multiple times for all stars and many of those were also all NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team selections.

In addition Gary Payton and John Stockton didn't have their breakthrough until in their 4th season and they were older than Ricky now.

Mikkeman wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Ricky has had 4 years to establish himself. How many franchise players needed that much time to prove themselves? And he still hasnt completely.

There has been plenty of franchise (or at least all star level) players especially in point guard position that were not any better in their 4th year than Ricky:

Jason Kidd's stats in 4th year:
38.0 MIN .416 FG% .313 3P% .799 FT% 6.2 RBS 9.1 AST 2.0 STL 3.2 TO 11.6 PTS

Steve Nash's stats in 4th year:
27.4 MIN .477 FG% .403 3P% .882 FT% 2.2 RBS 4.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.8 TO 8.6 PTS

Chauncey Billup's stats in 4th year:
23.2 MIN .422 FG% .376 3P% .842 FT% 2.1 RBS 3.4 AST 0.7 STL 1.4 TO 9.3 PTS

Terrell Brandon's stats in 4th year:
29.3 MIN .448 FG% .397 3P% .855 FT% 2.8 RBS 5.4 AST 1.6 STL 2.1 TO 13.3 PTS

Jalen Rose's stats in 4th year:
20.8 MIN .478 FG% .342 3P% .728 FT% 2.4 RBS 1.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.6 TO 9.4 PTS

Rasheed Wallace's stats in 4th year:
28.9 MIN .508 FG% .419 3P% .732 FT% 4.9 RBS 1.2 AST 1.1 BLK 1.6 TO 12.8 PTS

Jermaine O'Neil's stats in 4th year:
12.3 MIN .486 FG% 0.0 3P% .582 FT% 3.3 RBS 0.3 AST 0.8 BLK 0.7 TO 3.9 PTS

All above players except Jalen Rose were selected later in their career multiple times for all stars and many of those were also all NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team selections.

In addition Gary Payton and John Stockton didn't have their breakthrough until in their 4th season and they were older than Ricky now.

Wow, surprising numbers, Mikkeman! I'm predicting Ricky's stats this year will be better than all of those.

Mikkeman wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Ricky has had 4 years to establish himself. How many franchise players needed that much time to prove themselves? And he still hasnt completely.

There has been plenty of franchise (or at least all star level) players especially in point guard position that were not any better in their 4th year than Ricky:

Jason Kidd's stats in 4th year:
38.0 MIN .416 FG% .313 3P% .799 FT% 6.2 RBS 9.1 AST 2.0 STL 3.2 TO 11.6 PTS

Steve Nash's stats in 4th year:
27.4 MIN .477 FG% .403 3P% .882 FT% 2.2 RBS 4.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.8 TO 8.6 PTS

Chauncey Billup's stats in 4th year:
23.2 MIN .422 FG% .376 3P% .842 FT% 2.1 RBS 3.4 AST 0.7 STL 1.4 TO 9.3 PTS

Terrell Brandon's stats in 4th year:
29.3 MIN .448 FG% .397 3P% .855 FT% 2.8 RBS 5.4 AST 1.6 STL 2.1 TO 13.3 PTS

Jalen Rose's stats in 4th year:
20.8 MIN .478 FG% .342 3P% .728 FT% 2.4 RBS 1.9 AST 0.7 STL 1.6 TO 9.4 PTS

Rasheed Wallace's stats in 4th year:
28.9 MIN .508 FG% .419 3P% .732 FT% 4.9 RBS 1.2 AST 1.1 BLK 1.6 TO 12.8 PTS

Jermaine O'Neil's stats in 4th year:
12.3 MIN .486 FG% 0.0 3P% .582 FT% 3.3 RBS 0.3 AST 0.8 BLK 0.7 TO 3.9 PTS

All above players except Jalen Rose were selected later in their career multiple times for all stars and many of those were also all NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team selections.

In addition Gary Payton and John Stockton didn't have their breakthrough until in their 4th season and they were older than Ricky now.

Wow, surprising numbers, Mikkeman! I'm predicting Ricky's stats this year will be better than all of those.

Lakers are looking to trade Nash's contract.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2014/11/11/7199311/steve-nash-trade-la-lakers-rumor

I would hate to give up Bud, but I wonder if they would have any interest in Budinger or Maybe Martin in a salary dump.

FYI

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/21/flip-saunders-corey-brewer-too-valuable-to-trade/

TheFuture wrote:

PorkChop wrote:My problem is that so many fans have shown way more patience for him and made more excuses for his failings than any player in the recent history of Minnesota sports. Why is that? How has he shown himself to be a franchise player? 2 of 4 years he's dealing with injuries and no one would dare call him injury prone . 3 years he's been a terrible shooter but fans just say give him time he'll figure that out. He's played with a top 5 player in the league and still couldn't lead this team to a .500 record. Why does he get so much rope?

See Joe Mauer, please...

Also, he never played in 4th quarters with that top 5 player, who really isn't a top 5 player in this league.... Lebron, Durant, Davis, Curry, Paul...

I think the blames on missing .500 has everything to do with Love. Ricky wasn't the focal point in any year but this year.

Well it's not like Ricky was carrying his teammates in the 4th quarter and was let down by other players. Ricky himself was one of the biggest reasons for the Wolves 4th quarter woes last year, maybe the biggest

bleedspeed177 wrote:FYI

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/21/flip-saunders-corey-brewer-too-valuable-to-trade/

And that was before Martin's wrist injury. Maybe we can get an injury excemption to sign a PG.

Oh man. I didn't see that.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11914347/kevin-martin-minnesota-timberwolves-indefinitely-fractured-right-wrist

Edit...Put a comment here that I thought was in another thread!