Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:46 am I'm having a tougher time compartmentalizing this one, Lip, and it may take a little time. Here's my problem. I understand that NBA players are not like us, and are regularly going to engage in behavior that most of us find questionable...I'm long past worrying about that. My issue here though is with the cavalier way in which Ant is handling this. His "here's $100K so just take care of it and go away" attitude is revolting...especially when directed toward a woman who tells him a prior abortion had been difficult for her.

Ant is a complex guy. I've long thought he might be one of the dumbest guys in the Association, and frankly that has been part of his charm...he acts like a child, and it's often endearing. But in this case I think it's incumbent upon him to act like a man, not a spoiled child. And as a Wolves fan, I worry about whether Ant has some Ja-like self-destruction potential. Last year he had the homophobic instagram post (which fortunately his agent/attorney guided him toward a positive statement, and he didn't lose too much from a PR standpoint). Now only a year later, we get this ugly incident. What are we going to get next with Ant...how close is he to brandishing a gun in a strip club? I suspect he's not too far away from escalating bad behavior. His handlers are again going to direct him toward a proper PR statement, but I suspect this one is not going to be as easy for him. He has already lost his position of most popular T-Wolf to Naz Reid, and I think he is going to lose some fans from this one...maybe even me.

And if we boo Josh Giddey every time he touches the ball, how should we respond to Ant?

All good points, FNG.

Regarding Josh Giddey, I’ll just note that the girl - GIRL - he had sex with was 16 years old. The woman — stress WOMAN - Ant apparently impregnated was nearly 30 years old and sells her sexuality on Instagram, building a net worth of around $30 million. None of that excuses Ant’s immature callous treatment of the situation, but it provides some important perspective in a world that isn’t black and white. There’s a broad spectrum of moral culpability that profoundly distinguishes what Ant did from what Giddey, Miles Bridges or even Ja Morant did.

Sadly, I’ll bet Ant’s texts are similar to hundreds of messages from professional athletes in all sports, and from rock stars and other celebrities, to women they impregnated. Magic Johnson alone might have sent a hundred such messages. I don’t think Ant’s conduct in this instance is a harbinger of future Ja Morant behavior - i.e., brandishing guns, hanging with thugs and punching teenage boys. It certainly doesn’t suggest a future of physically assaulting women a la Miles Bridges. We need to be honest with ourselves and admit that Ant’s conduct in this instance isn’t different from the conduct of many of our favorite athletes, rock stars, actors, and political leaders throughout history.

I hope that someone he trusts will pull Ant aside and get through to him on sexual responsibility and humility. If I were TC, I’d ask Magic Johnson to come to town and meet with Ant. At some point, I can see Ant growing out of this childish, self-centered phase he’s in as he actually experiences fatherhood and other events in life. Let’s not forget he’s barely 22 years old and hasn’t exactly had a solid childhood. I hope Ant’s life’s lessons won’t include HIV - which is something Magic Johnson could stress with Ant. The birth of Ant’s first child could dramatically change his outlook as it often does.

So I’m disappointed in Ant, but I’m not ready yet to dismiss him as a “piece of shit” even though I understand and respect Cool’s reaction. At some point, I might lose my enthusiasm for Ant down the road if we get more news of behavior reflective of a selfish brat rather than a respectable adult. But even respectable adults have serious flaws that don’t make them bad people. Fortunately, we’re typically unaware of the most serious flaws in those we know and interact with in our private lives - unless we’re interacting with celebrities whose lives are typically on display. Meanwhile, I’ll root for Ant not only as a player but as a person and hope that he matures into a better person as most of us do when we move out of our early 20s.

Lip, I'm certainly never going to condone Giddey's behavior...I agree there's a big difference between consensual sex with a 16-year-old and a 30-year-old. But there's one specific part of Ant's communication that aligns me more with Cool's "piece of shit" description of Ant...it's the "get a abortion, lol" that reveals Ant's true character. Anyone who would put an "lol" into a serious communication like this is someone who has no respect for women, and perhaps has no ability to think of anyone except himself. I'm finally going to get to a game on the 30th...taking my Little Brother to the Lakers game. He's a huge LeBron fan, and I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion in the car about the difference between the Lakers' best player and ours...and I'll have to agree with him that there is a big difference in character between the two (and I'm far from a big fan of LeBron's character, but he has seemed to avoid situations like this over his 20 years). I'm not going to boo Ant, but I'm going to have a difficult time openly cheering for him also.

But ultimately I'm a Wolves rube, so inwardly I'll be cheering for Ant to help us beat the Lakers. I guess this incident is going to tell me something about myself as well as about Ant...I suppose I can become somewhat of a phony when it comes to teams I cheer for.

THIS is why I've distanced myself from professional athletes for a very long time.

We have no idea what kind of people they really are. So I try to judge them solely by their on-court actions. It's easier, there's less baggage and less emotional.

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:29 pm Lip, I'm certainly never going to condone Giddey's behavior...I agree there's a big difference between consensual sex with a 16-year-old and a 30-year-old. But there's one specific part of Ant's communication that aligns me more with Cool's "piece of shit" description of Ant...it's the "get a abortion, lol" that reveals Ant's true character. Anyone who would put an "lol" into a serious communication like this is someone who has no respect for women, and perhaps has no ability to think of anyone except himself. I'm finally going to get to a game on the 30th...taking my Little Brother to the Lakers game. He's a huge LeBron fan, and I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion in the car about the difference between the Lakers' best player and ours...and I'll have to agree with him that there is a big difference in character between the two (and I'm far from a big fan of LeBron's character, but he has seemed to avoid situations like this over his 20 years). I'm not going to boo Ant, but I'm going to have a difficult time openly cheering for him also.

But ultimately I'm a Wolves rube, so inwardly I'll be cheering for Ant to help us beat the Lakers. I guess this incident is going to tell me something about myself as well as about Ant...I suppose I can become somewhat of a phony when it comes to teams I cheer for.

Yep. You hit on the one part of Ant’s text that hit me in the gut. The LOL was disgusting. I think of it more as a lack of respect for the gravity of the situation - a pregnancy with an unborn life and his personal responsibility for the situation. In any event, it’s a hugely unflattering view into Ant’s attitude, but I’m not yet prepared to say it defines his character. I’d feel differently if he were 32 years old, but he’s barely 22 with time to grow up. He comes off as a selfish child but I hold out hope he can grow from this and emerge a better person. I’m actually glad his texts became public. Public shaming has a way of getting through to people and maybe it will force Ant to look himself in the mirror and adopt some humility. In my view, the test of his character will be how he responds and conducts himself going forward.

You mentioned the distinction between this episode and what we know about LeBron. I was thinking about the same distinction between Ant and our own Karl Anthony Towns. This Ant revelation makes me appreciate KAT even more. It puts KAT’s whining and silly interview comments in perspective. I’ll admit it’s harder to root for Ant after this revelation. But it makes it even easier to root for KAT.

I cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. Sure I have my favorite players, but I always view the franchise as ours whereas the players are just renting the name Wolve for a period of time.

It's easy for me to root for the Wolves while not necessarily having a ton of respect for some of the players. And let me be clear, I've lost some respect for AE through learning this. I'm a man of faith and as a Catholic Christian it bothers me to see any child lose their chance at life. However, it's not my job nor my intent to condemn anyone who has gone through it. The phrase piece of shit doesn't align with my desired character, and my use of it was a reflex to learning the disappointing news. But the loss of respect is real. One of the worst moments of my life was the day I discovered one of my adult daughters had had an abortion. I don't love her any less, but the sting of that event will never go away. Ant hopefully has a long time to make good on any and all mistakes he's made. I've gotten 2nd chances at things in life, no reason he shouldn't be afforded the same. But the sad part to me is the aborted baby won't get any 2nd chances.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:02 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:29 pm Lip, I'm certainly never going to condone Giddey's behavior...I agree there's a big difference between consensual sex with a 16-year-old and a 30-year-old. But there's one specific part of Ant's communication that aligns me more with Cool's "piece of shit" description of Ant...it's the "get a abortion, lol" that reveals Ant's true character. Anyone who would put an "lol" into a serious communication like this is someone who has no respect for women, and perhaps has no ability to think of anyone except himself. I'm finally going to get to a game on the 30th...taking my Little Brother to the Lakers game. He's a huge LeBron fan, and I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion in the car about the difference between the Lakers' best player and ours...and I'll have to agree with him that there is a big difference in character between the two (and I'm far from a big fan of LeBron's character, but he has seemed to avoid situations like this over his 20 years). I'm not going to boo Ant, but I'm going to have a difficult time openly cheering for him also.

But ultimately I'm a Wolves rube, so inwardly I'll be cheering for Ant to help us beat the Lakers. I guess this incident is going to tell me something about myself as well as about Ant...I suppose I can become somewhat of a phony when it comes to teams I cheer for.

Yep. You hit on the one part of Ant’s text that hit me in the gut. The LOL was disgusting. I think of it more as a lack of respect for the gravity of the situation - a pregnancy with an unborn life and his personal responsibility for the situation. In any event, it’s a hugely unflattering view into Ant’s attitude, but I’m not yet prepared to say it defines his character. I’d feel differently if he were 32 years old, but he’s barely 22 with time to grow up. He comes off as a selfish child but I hold out hope he can grow from this and emerge a better person. I’m actually glad his texts became public. Public shaming has a way of getting through to people and maybe it will force Ant to look himself in the mirror and adopt some humility. In my view, the test of his character will be how he responds and conducts himself going forward.

You mentioned the distinction between this episode and what we know about LeBron. I was thinking about the same distinction between Ant and our own Karl Anthony Towns. This Ant revelation makes me appreciate KAT even more. It puts KAT’s whining and silly interview comments in perspective. I’ll admit it’s harder to root for Ant after this revelation. But it makes it even easier to root for KAT.

Lip, I like the distinction you make between Ant and KAT. Though we don't know everything KAT has done in his life, at least today I find him more likeable. That's easy for me to grasp on to. I'm also reminded of the terrible ordeal Andrew Wiggins had to endure last year. For those that don't know, he had become a father but later found out that the child his girlfriend gave birth to had actually been fathered by his best friend. For months, maybe years he had been under the misconception the child was his. He was crushed by the revelation due to his love for the child and the mother. I don't think to this day he has recovered fully. It's pretty easy for me to like him too.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:50 pm THIS is why I've distanced myself from professional athletes for a very long time.

We have no idea what kind of people they really are. So I try to judge them solely by their on-court actions. It's easier, there's less baggage and less emotional.

This goes in my Kirby Puckett debate Abe

Best Twins player of all time for me

Also a terrible wife beating person.

Both things can be true and everyone needs to remember that.

So glad that everyone here is perfect and can throw as many stones as they want. Text messages that get leaked are stream of consciousness outputs for most people. Let's keep that pulpit out of the muck.

Wait. Wiggins... what?

DNatagal wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:00 pm So glad that everyone here is perfect and can throw as many stones as they want. Text messages that get leaked are stream of consciousness outputs for most people. Let's keep that pulpit out of the muck.

Yeah, it does seem like we're piling on Ant here, DN. Some of it is because we are all Wolves fan, and this just wasn't the distraction we needed as we were all basking in the glory of a 19-5 start. I sense this is almost as much about our anger at Ant for creating this distraction as it is about judging him. I was really looking forward to a Wolves/Heat game tonight, but now my head is in a different place...and I fully admit I'm pissed off about that. I certainly will admit there are things I've done in my life that I'm not proud of. And to Lip's point above, we all hope that this is something Ant can learn from and grow. But as we collectively review our own transgressions, I would guess most (if not all) of them would fall far short of the heartless "get a abortion...lol" Ant texted. I understand that texts are generally stream of consciousness outputs, but what kind of consciousness produces an unkind, thoughtless text like that? I'm far from perfect, but that's an action I can't even get close to understanding.

I'm mostly in the camp that Cool is in...cheering for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. But I'm also enough of a rube that I am prone to developing man crushes on athletes I particularly like, and Ant was one of them. So was Puckett...to Jester's point above. I want to get more to where Cool, Jester and Abe are...respecting the performance on the court/field and not getting too attached to the player himself. It's not how I'm wired, but more instances like this help me get there.