Minnesota Sports Forum

ItsJustSoSab wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:03 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:41 pm

ItsJustSoSab wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:32 pm Man, this is the first time I can remember disagreeing with a Q take so much. I guess you can point to his time on the Jazz, but there is really no evidence that the wolves can't make a deep playoff run when Gobert has multiple great players around him. I don't see why he can't play most of the game in the playoffs and then they take him out for the last 6 minutes if necessary. Is that ideal? Hell no, but if it leads to wins, who cares!

Ha, healthy disagreements are welcomed here!

I can see the scenario you posit on Rudy's next contract when he's older and starts slowing down a bit. But given his contract size, ego, and Finch's determination to make the 2-big system work, I just don't see Rudy getting benched in crunch time minutes while he's on his current deal.

And look, we haven't even needed to take Gobert out the last 6 minutes! Deep playoff run baby!

FNG wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:11 am Lucky? Come on Q, that's my "go to" shot in "HORSE"!

Yeah the free throw makes have been huge and kind of a surprise. But we actually shouldn't be too surprised because Rudy claims he makes 90% of them in practice!

SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:54 am

FNG wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:11 am Lucky? Come on Q, that's my "go to" shot in "HORSE"!

Yeah the free throw makes have been huge and kind of a surprise. But we actually shouldn't be too surprised because Rudy claims he makes 90% of them in practice!

He was about 90% in the Phoenix series, right?

Monster wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:20 am A couple of the valid concerns of the trade beyond the idea that the Wolves simply gave up too much in the deal was that the Wolves had other areas to improve specifically the PG position/guard next to Edwards and in general being able to add to the roster without the draft assets. I always said that while I wouldn't have done the deal Connelly had a track record of being able to make small moves to build up a team so I was banking on him being able to do that to offset all that was given up in the Gobert trade.

Connelly hasn't nailed all his moves whether it's draft picks or free agent signings but the Wolves currently have some real depth at PG and options for how they want to move forward at that position. He moved Russell for Conley and NAW plus 2nd rounders and that's been a heck of a deal. Conley is signed cheap for 2 more seasons and NAW is signed for another season and the Wolves could keep him if they are willing to pay up. He whiffed on the Shake Milton signing but signing him and Brown to basically 1 year deals gave him the salary match to be able to trade for guys in season and he gave up just a 2nd to get Monte Morris who now they could also resign this off-season. In short he has been able to shore up much of the roster and created a deep team.

This off-season it will be interesting to see what all they do and how much money ownership is willing to pay in terms of luxury tax. One thing that will likely have changed is that players are more likely going to take less to come to the Wolves. That's going to mean we might get a player or 2 for the vet min that can be a legit rotation player. It's also worth considering that maybe a young guy that didn't play this year might actually be ready to help. The Wolves had times when they simply didn't have enough minutes for everyone and so to some extent it made sense they didn't play those young guys. I do agree that's a bit of an optimistic take but I think it's worth mentioning. What will they do with the first round pick this year? Will they be able to resign Garza? It feels to me like the Wolves are in a pretty good spot right now and Connelly has done some nice things to get them here. I'll add that they have Memphis 2nd round pick this season and Utah's 2nd in 2025. Connelly has given up quite a few 2nd's but has at times added some and in the case of this year and possibly next he has improved the 2nd they would have had although some of that is a bit of luck. If the Wolves continue to be good nobody is gonna care about 2nd rounders he gave up that are in the 50's and probably less concerned with late round picks given up in the Gobert trade as well. It feels like Connelly is due to hit on a draft pick that helps the Wolves sooner rather than later.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:47 am

ItsJustSoSab wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:03 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:41 pm

Ha, healthy disagreements are welcomed here!

I can see the scenario you posit on Rudy's next contract when he's older and starts slowing down a bit. But given his contract size, ego, and Finch's determination to make the 2-big system work, I just don't see Rudy getting benched in crunch time minutes while he's on his current deal.

And look, we haven't even needed to take Gobert out the last 6 minutes! Deep playoff run baby!

That's right. You have to tip your cap to Rudy though. He has dialed in on his free throw shooting in the playoffs and that has been absolutely huge, hitting them at a 70% clip, which is equivalent to 1.4 points per trip to the line. Anything above 1.1 points per possession is considered a good offensive possession, so he is punishing teams for fouling him.

(let's face it though - he also had a couple of lucky shots he made in the 2nd half last night. One was an "and one" that he clanked off the backboard while being fouled and the other was that epic fadeaway 18-footer that went in. And in the first half his hands and timing were a mess..we survived though!)

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 12:02 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:20 am A couple of the valid concerns of the trade beyond the idea that the Wolves simply gave up too much in the deal was that the Wolves had other areas to improve specifically the PG position/guard next to Edwards and in general being able to add to the roster without the draft assets. I always said that while I wouldn't have done the deal Connelly had a track record of being able to make small moves to build up a team so I was banking on him being able to do that to offset all that was given up in the Gobert trade.

Connelly hasn't nailed all his moves whether it's draft picks or free agent signings but the Wolves currently have some real depth at PG and options for how they want to move forward at that position. He moved Russell for Conley and NAW plus 2nd rounders and that's been a heck of a deal. Conley is signed cheap for 2 more seasons and NAW is signed for another season and the Wolves could keep him if they are willing to pay up. He whiffed on the Shake Milton signing but signing him and Brown to basically 1 year deals gave him the salary match to be able to trade for guys in season and he gave up just a 2nd to get Monte Morris who now they could also resign this off-season. In short he has been able to shore up much of the roster and created a deep team.

This off-season it will be interesting to see what all they do and how much money ownership is willing to pay in terms of luxury tax. One thing that will likely have changed is that players are more likely going to take less to come to the Wolves. That's going to mean we might get a player or 2 for the vet min that can be a legit rotation player. It's also worth considering that maybe a young guy that didn't play this year might actually be ready to help. The Wolves had times when they simply didn't have enough minutes for everyone and so to some extent it made sense they didn't play those young guys. I do agree that's a bit of an optimistic take but I think it's worth mentioning. What will they do with the first round pick this year? Will they be able to resign Garza? It feels to me like the Wolves are in a pretty good spot right now and Connelly has done some nice things to get them here. I'll add that they have Memphis 2nd round pick this season and Utah's 2nd in 2025. Connelly has given up quite a few 2nd's but has at times added some and in the case of this year and possibly next he has improved the 2nd they would have had although some of that is a bit of luck. If the Wolves continue to be good nobody is gonna care about 2nd rounders he gave up that are in the 50's and probably less concerned with late round picks given up in the Gobert trade as well. It feels like Connelly is due to hit on a draft pick that helps the Wolves sooner rather than later.

TC’s DLO trade for Conley, NAW and several 2nd-round picks was an absolutely fantastic trade - one of the best if not THE best in Wolves history. That deal plus Ant’s development, KAT’s adjustments/adaptation and Finchie’s coaching have unlocked the full value of the Gobert acquisition. Also credit Rudy for getting himself physically and mentally ready for this season after his underwhelming performance last season. And let’s not forget TC’s acquisition of Slo Mo before the Rudy deal. TC inherited a lot of tremendous assets and a franchise on the rise. He optimized the assets he inherited to make the Wolves the championship contender they are right now. They may not win this year’s NBA championship or even make the NBA finals, but they’re obviously in the running as one of four finalists.

So what does all this mean beyond this season? I think it means, win or lose, the franchise brings this same team back next season for one more run. I don’t think it’s a question of how luxury tax money ownership is willing to pay. Glen Taylor’s net worth is estimated at $2.8 billion while Lore’s net worth is estimated at $4.2 billion. They have enough money to pay a huge tax bill for one season. The issue for next season isn’t money; it’s transactional constrains that come with being over the 2nd apron. Make no mistake about it - if the Wolves bring the same core team back next season they WILL BE over the 2nd apron. That means they can’t use any salary cap exception other than the vet minimum and draft exceptions as well as the Larry Bird exception to re-sign their current players. It’s hard to make trades when over the 2nd apron because you can’t (1) take in more salary than you send out; (2) aggregate outgoing salaries; or (3) acquire a player via sign-and-trade.

The good news is that the Wolves don’t need to add or change much. The whole point of running it back next season in spite of the second apron implications is that this team is really good as is and doesn’t need any significant changes. Running it back with the players we have under contract next season and using Bird rights to re-sign the players whose contracts are expiring this summer would mean the following roster next season:

1. Conley
2. Ant
3. Jaden
4. KAT
5. Rudy
6. Naz
7. NAW
8. Slo Mo (Bird Re-sign)
9. Monte Morris (Bird Re-sign)
10. JMac (Bird Re-sign)
11. Luka Garza (Bird Re-sign)
11. Josh Minott
12. Leonard Miller
13. Wendell Moore
14. 2024 1st-round draft pick

(I’m assuming Jaylen Clark returns on another 2-way contract). Maybe use one of our other two-way contracts to sign our 2024 second-round pick from Memphis.

That leaves us with one roster spot to fill using the vet minimum. I don’t think we can count on the vet minimum to land us a significant contributor, but your point about the Wolves possibly being an attractive destination for consequently vet minimum players is a good one.

The Wolves could trade this year’s 1st-round pick for a future 1st. We could so the same with our 2nd rounder from Memphis. That would open up another roster spot to sign a seasoned vet for next season. We could use a three-point marksman off the bench.

We’re in a somewhat precarious spot long term given our lack of picks and the impending 2nd apron cliff. But I think we can survive the 2nd apron for one season before making any major moves to remove the second apron shackles from the franchise. After next season, we can re-sign Rudy to a longer-term deal at a much lower annual salary. That move alone, plus an escalating salary cap should be enough to get us below the 2nd apron and possibly even below the 1st apron. The more I’ve read and heard about Ant’s deep affection for KAT, the more I realize that trading KAT is not in the cards for this franchise. Keeping Ant, which means making sure he’s happy, is obviously key to this franchise long term and that likely means keeping KAT. It helps that KAT has substantially improved defensively and has really steadied his game overall. It’s equally clear that Jaden and Naz won’t be going anywhere either. Jaden is an elite defender who seems on the verge of unlocking a potent offensive game. He’s also close to Ant. Naz is already the best 6th man in NBA with all-star potential. He’s also a fan favorite and Ant loves him. As I see it, those are your core four long term for this franchise - Ant, KAT, Jaden, Naz. Who else ends up as their teammates on the Wolves after next season is anybody’s guess. In the meantime, I’d love to see this same team come back next season for one more shot.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 12:56 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 12:02 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:20 am A couple of the valid concerns of the trade beyond the idea that the Wolves simply gave up too much in the deal was that the Wolves had other areas to improve specifically the PG position/guard next to Edwards and in general being able to add to the roster without the draft assets. I always said that while I wouldn't have done the deal Connelly had a track record of being able to make small moves to build up a team so I was banking on him being able to do that to offset all that was given up in the Gobert trade.

Connelly hasn't nailed all his moves whether it's draft picks or free agent signings but the Wolves currently have some real depth at PG and options for how they want to move forward at that position. He moved Russell for Conley and NAW plus 2nd rounders and that's been a heck of a deal. Conley is signed cheap for 2 more seasons and NAW is signed for another season and the Wolves could keep him if they are willing to pay up. He whiffed on the Shake Milton signing but signing him and Brown to basically 1 year deals gave him the salary match to be able to trade for guys in season and he gave up just a 2nd to get Monte Morris who now they could also resign this off-season. In short he has been able to shore up much of the roster and created a deep team.

This off-season it will be interesting to see what all they do and how much money ownership is willing to pay in terms of luxury tax. One thing that will likely have changed is that players are more likely going to take less to come to the Wolves. That's going to mean we might get a player or 2 for the vet min that can be a legit rotation player. It's also worth considering that maybe a young guy that didn't play this year might actually be ready to help. The Wolves had times when they simply didn't have enough minutes for everyone and so to some extent it made sense they didn't play those young guys. I do agree that's a bit of an optimistic take but I think it's worth mentioning. What will they do with the first round pick this year? Will they be able to resign Garza? It feels to me like the Wolves are in a pretty good spot right now and Connelly has done some nice things to get them here. I'll add that they have Memphis 2nd round pick this season and Utah's 2nd in 2025. Connelly has given up quite a few 2nd's but has at times added some and in the case of this year and possibly next he has improved the 2nd they would have had although some of that is a bit of luck. If the Wolves continue to be good nobody is gonna care about 2nd rounders he gave up that are in the 50's and probably less concerned with late round picks given up in the Gobert trade as well. It feels like Connelly is due to hit on a draft pick that helps the Wolves sooner rather than later.

TC’s DLO trade for Conley, NAW and several 2nd-round picks was an absolutely fantastic trade - one of the best if not THE best in Wolves history. That deal plus Ant’s development, KAT’s adjustments/adaptation and Finchie’s coaching have unlocked the full value of the Gobert acquisition. Also credit Rudy for getting himself physically and mentally ready for this season after his underwhelming performance last season. And let’s not forget TC’s acquisition of Slo Mo before the Rudy deal. TC inherited a lot of tremendous assets and a franchise on the rise. He optimized the assets he inherited to make the Wolves the championship contender they are right now. They may not win this year’s NBA championship or even make the NBA finals, but they’re obviously in the running as one of four finalists.

So what does all this mean beyond this season? I think it means, win or lose, the franchise brings this same team back next season for one more run. I don’t think it’s a question of how luxury tax money ownership is willing to pay. Glen Taylor’s net worth is estimated at $2.8 billion while Lore’s net worth is estimated at $4.2 billion. They have enough money to pay a huge tax bill for one season. The issue for next season isn’t money; it’s transactional constrains that come with being over the 2nd apron. Make no mistake about it - if the Wolves bring the same core team back next season they WILL BE over the 2nd apron. That means they can’t use any salary cap exception other than the vet minimum and draft exceptions as well as the Larry Bird exception to re-sign their current players. It’s hard to make trades when over the 2nd apron because you can’t (1) take in more salary than you send out; (2) aggregate outgoing salaries; or (3) acquire a player via sign-and-trade.

The good news is that the Wolves don’t need to add or change much. The whole point of running it back next season in spite of the second apron implications is that this team is really good as is and doesn’t need any significant changes. Running it back with the players we have under contract next season and using Bird rights to re-sign the players whose contracts are expiring this summer would mean the following roster next season:

1. Conley
2. Ant
3. Jaden
4. KAT
5. Rudy
6. Naz
7. NAW
8. Slo Mo (Bird Re-sign)
9. Monte Morris (Bird Re-sign)
10. JMac (Bird Re-sign)
11. Luka Garza (Bird Re-sign)
11. Josh Minott
12. Leonard Miller
13. Wendell Moore
14. 2024 1st-round draft pick

(I’m assuming Jaylen Clark returns on another 2-way contract). Maybe use one of our other two-way contracts to sign our 2024 second-round pick from Memphis.

That leaves us with one roster spot to fill using the vet minimum. I don’t think we can count on the vet minimum to land us a significant contributor, but your point about the Wolves possibly being an attractive destination for consequently vet minimum players is a good one.

The Wolves could trade this year’s 1st-round pick for a future 1st. We could so the same with our 2nd rounder from Memphis. That would open up another roster spot to sign a seasoned vet for next season. We could use a three-point marksman off the bench.

We’re in a somewhat precarious spot long term given our lack of picks and the impending 2nd apron cliff. But I think we can survive the 2nd apron for one season before making any major moves to remove the second apron shackles from the franchise. After next season, we can re-sign Rudy to a longer-term deal at a much lower annual salary. That move alone, plus an escalating salary cap should be enough to get us below the 2nd apron and possibly even below the 1st apron. The more I’ve read and heard about Ant’s deep affection for KAT, the more I realize that trading KAT is not in the cards for this franchise. Keeping Ant, which means making sure he’s happy, is obviously key to this franchise long term and that likely means keeping KAT. It helps that KAT has substantially improved defensively and has really steadied his game overall. It’s equally clear that Jaden and Naz won’t be going anywhere either. Jaden is an elite defender who seems on the verge of unlocking a potent offensive game. He’s also close to Ant. Naz is already the best 6th man in NBA with all-star potential. He’s also a fan favorite and Ant loves him. As I see it, those are your core four long term for this franchise - Ant, KAT, Jaden, Naz. Who else ends up as their teammates on the Wolves after next season is anybody’s guess. In the meantime, I’d love to see this same team come back next season for one more shot.

KAT has vastly improved his defense this year and postseason. Less fouls (still can be improved but it's better). Also less complaining which I think negatively effected him getting back on defense but then entire team then going forward. If you are a teammate and your dude is crying on the other end to officials while you defend 4 on 5. That is just no bueno. So props to him for simply buckling down and improving.

Also credit Ant some for sure as well for becoming a good leader. I think his confidence, resilience and charisma is a reflection on everyone else. Naz too has been great on defense at times this year and postseason. Which was his biggest weakness before also. Seeing him guard Jokic and Murray and having success was really amazing last series.

I love this team.