Bring Them All Back?

[Wolvesfan21]

KD's defensive fire will be relit by playing beside his favorite player to watch Ant man. He would be punishing OKC's scheme right now, I'm clearly in the minority here but I strongly want us to trade for him.

Im with you Bloop. This team can do so little to shake it up at this point. Lets go for the fun squad with KD. At least its interesting.

Anybody that watched KD play this year would have a difficult time thinking he would make this a fun squad. He's going to be 37 years old when the season starts, and he has appeared joyless on the court for some time now. Giving up assets to bring in a player well past his prime with the assumption that his attitude is going to change overnight merely because he gets to play next to a rising 23 year old doesn't sound like a very good strategy to me. It also doesn't sound like something TC would be inclined to do.

I might consider but still maybe pass, but if KD said I would love to play with Ant and do whatever it takes to win again, Even then I wonder if he will put in the effort defensively we would need from him. His lack of effort these last 5-6 whatever years is too concerning. He's a too common denominator on losing clubs.

[Q-is-here]

We’ve advanced to the 2nd round and have a team that seems to have the talent and coaching to make it to the NBA finals and possibly win a championship. I didn’t think this group would work but TC and Finch had a vision and once again it looks like they were right. There were some flaws in this roster that caused us to lose games we should have won, causing us to have a lower playoff and less home court. But the Laker series has me close to wanting to keep this team together over the long haul. If we advance past the 2nd round, I’ll be all-in on bringing almost everyone back for another run next season assuming we can squeeze under the 2nd apron, which I think we can do if Randle and Naz are willing to take a bit less than they can get elsewhere.

I just ran the numbers and it looks like we can bring back all our current guys except NAW and Ingles and come in just a few hundred thousand dollars below the projected $207.9 million second apron threshold IF Naz and Randle are willing to take a bit less than they can probably command in free agent market. I don’t see Naz exercising his $15 million option since it’s substantially below his market value. But even if Randle exercises his $30 million option, we could give Naz a new contract starting at around $25 million and end up barely below the 2nd apron threshold. Another alternative would be both Randle and Naz agreeing to a new multi-year deal starting at around $27 million.

I’m assuming we exercise our team options on both Minott and Garza’s and also sign both our two draft picks (##17 and 31). Our payroll by my calculations would be $207.3 million with a 15-man roster the same as this season but without Joe and NAW and with two new rookies. I would envision Clark and TSJ competing for NAW’s minutes. We could get a little more cap room to maneuver by releasing Minott and Garza and replacing them with one minimum level vet for a 14-man roster. Bottom line is that we can probably keep the band together for another run next season if we want to, assuming Randle and Naz want to stay here and are comfortable giving up some money.

Re-upping this thread and highlighting Lip's key point, which is really a question that can only now be answered since we have closure on the playoffs. Anyone want to revisit their original thoughts? Anyone have new thoughts?

[WildWolf2813]

We’ve advanced to the 2nd round and have a team that seems to have the talent and coaching to make it to the NBA finals and possibly win a championship. I didn’t think this group would work but TC and Finch had a vision and once again it looks like they were right. There were some flaws in this roster that caused us to lose games we should have won, causing us to have a lower playoff and less home court. But the Laker series has me close to wanting to keep this team together over the long haul. If we advance past the 2nd round, I’ll be all-in on bringing almost everyone back for another run next season assuming we can squeeze under the 2nd apron, which I think we can do if Randle and Naz are willing to take a bit less than they can get elsewhere.

I just ran the numbers and it looks like we can bring back all our current guys except NAW and Ingles and come in just a few hundred thousand dollars below the projected $207.9 million second apron threshold IF Naz and Randle are willing to take a bit less than they can probably command in free agent market. I don’t see Naz exercising his $15 million option since it’s substantially below his market value. But even if Randle exercises his $30 million option, we could give Naz a new contract starting at around $25 million and end up barely below the 2nd apron threshold. Another alternative would be both Randle and Naz agreeing to a new multi-year deal starting at around $27 million.

I’m assuming we exercise our team options on both Minott and Garza’s and also sign both our two draft picks (##17 and 31). Our payroll by my calculations would be $207.3 million with a 15-man roster the same as this season but without Joe and NAW and with two new rookies. I would envision Clark and TSJ competing for NAW’s minutes. We could get a little more cap room to maneuver by releasing Minott and Garza and replacing them with one minimum level vet for a 14-man roster. Bottom line is that we can probably keep the band together for another run next season if we want to, assuming Randle and Naz want to stay here and are comfortable giving up some money.

Re-upping this thread and highlighting Lip's key point, which is really a question that can only now be answered since we have closure on the playoffs. Anyone want to revisit their original thoughts? Anyone have new thoughts?

Mine hasn't changed since training camp. Everybody can't go.

[60WinTim]

We’ve advanced to the 2nd round and have a team that seems to have the talent and coaching to make it to the NBA finals and possibly win a championship. I didn’t think this group would work but TC and Finch had a vision and once again it looks like they were right. There were some flaws in this roster that caused us to lose games we should have won, causing us to have a lower playoff and less home court. But the Laker series has me close to wanting to keep this team together over the long haul. If we advance past the 2nd round, I’ll be all-in on bringing almost everyone back for another run next season assuming we can squeeze under the 2nd apron, which I think we can do if Randle and Naz are willing to take a bit less than they can get elsewhere.

I just ran the numbers and it looks like we can bring back all our current guys except NAW and Ingles and come in just a few hundred thousand dollars below the projected $207.9 million second apron threshold IF Naz and Randle are willing to take a bit less than they can probably command in free agent market. I don’t see Naz exercising his $15 million option since it’s substantially below his market value. But even if Randle exercises his $30 million option, we could give Naz a new contract starting at around $25 million and end up barely below the 2nd apron threshold. Another alternative would be both Randle and Naz agreeing to a new multi-year deal starting at around $27 million.

I’m assuming we exercise our team options on both Minott and Garza’s and also sign both our two draft picks (##17 and 31). Our payroll by my calculations would be $207.3 million with a 15-man roster the same as this season but without Joe and NAW and with two new rookies. I would envision Clark and TSJ competing for NAW’s minutes. We could get a little more cap room to maneuver by releasing Minott and Garza and replacing them with one minimum level vet for a 14-man roster. Bottom line is that we can probably keep the band together for another run next season if we want to, assuming Randle and Naz want to stay here and are comfortable giving up some money.

Re-upping this thread and highlighting Lip's key point, which is really a question that can only now be answered since we have closure on the playoffs. Anyone want to revisit their original thoughts? Anyone have new thoughts?

Mine hasn't changed since training camp. Everybody can't go.

Wait! What?!? Who's "Everybody"? And can they or can't they go?

[WildWolf2813]

Re-upping this thread and highlighting Lip's key point, which is really a question that can only now be answered since we have closure on the playoffs. Anyone want to revisit their original thoughts? Anyone have new thoughts?

Mine hasn't changed since training camp. Everybody can't go.

Wait! What?!? Who's "Everybody"? And can they or can't they go?

We can't bring everyone on the roster back. Not everyone can stay here just because we love them so much and wanna keep this together. It's not practical or realistic.

[60WinTim]

Mine hasn't changed since training camp. Everybody can't go.

Wait! What?!? Who's "Everybody"? And can they or can't they go?

We can't bring everyone on the roster back. Not everyone can stay here just because we love them so much and wanna keep this together. It's not practical or realistic.

Ahh.. So you really meant "Everybody can't stay"...

[Lipoli390]

I think I was overly exuberant with our series win over a Lakers team that wasn’t very good. And then we beat the 7 seed playing most of the series without their best player, Curry. We then went on to lose the OKC series in 5 games, getting beat by over 20 points in three of our four losses.

I still like our young core of Ant, Jaden and Naz. I know there are some who would disagree with me on Naz but I think he’d be much better and more consistent as a starter. I also like our recent draft picks - TSJ, Clark, Dilly and Miller. I still like Donte when factoring in his team-friendly contract. So those are the eight guys I’d definitely bring back. I’m still inclined to keep Rudy as well.

Regarding our recent picks, I see no reason why TSJ can’t be our own version of Jalen Williams next season. Clark is already an elite defender and I think he’s a reliable jump shot away from being really really good. I’m higher on Dilly than others on this board. I was watching some video of him the other day from both NBA and college highlights. He’s a really gifted ball handler and terrific passer. Remember also that he hit over 40% of his three attempts in college. He’s very young but I’m willing to be patient and good organizations are typically patient with their young talent.

I’m not worried about Dilly’s size. There’s a pretty long list of prior NBA all-star PGs around his size, many of them in or destined to be in the hall of fame. Dilly’s actual size as a barely 19 year old rookie in the combine was 6’1 without shoes and 164.2 pounds. Consider the following list and their rookie heights/weights (combine metrics unless indicated otherwise):

Allen Iverson: Listed at 6’0, 165 but his actual metrics were probably 5’10.5, 155-160.
John Stockton: Listed at 6’1, 170 but actual metrics were probably 5’11, 160-165
Mark Price: Listed at 6’0, 170 but actual metrics were probably 5’10.5, 160-165
Darren Collison: 6’0.25, 166.2
Mike Conley: 5’11, 175
Chris Paul: 5’11.75, 178
Step Curry: 6’2, 172 (this is Curry’s combine height w/out shoes. It’s the weight that Curry says he played at his rookie season).
Trae Young: 6’0.5, 164
Ja Morant: Listed at 6’2, 174 but actual metrics are probably around 6’0.5, 164-169.
De’Aaron Fox: 6’2, 169.5
Darius Garland: Listed at 6’2, 175 but actual metrics are probably around 6’0.5, 165-170.
Isaiah Joe: 6’3, 170.4

Note that a number of these guys were older than Dilly when their combine measurements were taken so they would naturally be at least a little more physically developed. I’ll add that Dilly had a 42” max vertical in the combine, which is much better than Chris Paul’s 27”, Steph Curry’s 35.5” or Trae Young’s 35”. It’s even better than Iverson’s 41” and Mike Conley’s 40.5”. It’s only 2 inches less than Morant’s 44.” Rob’s three point shooting numbers as a college freshman were better than most on this list.

The above list consists mainly of players were or are all successful NBA rotation players - all but two starting PGs, most with all-star credentials, and many current or future hall of farmers. So it’s not reasonable to conclude that Rob can’t even be a decent starter because of his size. Looking at his elite athleticism and quickness along with his elite ballhandling and college scoring, passing and rebounding stats, I’d can see Rob eventually becoming an allstar caliber PG like many of the comparably sized PGs in the list above. Time will tell but it would be folly to give up on him now. We traded up to draft him at #8. TC knows what he’s doing and Rob was a near consensus top 8 pick among all the experts. I’m excited to see what he can do next season as a 20 year old with a year of NBA practices and some NBA game experience under his belt and with the benefit of watching and learning from Mike Conley.

[60WinTim]

Bobby Marks put up his Wolves offseason guide on youtube. Given the landscape of cap money available this season, he believes both NAZ and Randle will opt in on their player options. They both can still negotiate an extension beyond next season. We'll see what happens...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTv2ujqxRs

[FNG]

Bobby Marks put up his Wolves offseason guide on youtube. Given the landscape of cap money available this season, he believes both NAZ and Randle will opt in on their player options. They both can still negotiate an extension beyond next season. We'll see what happens...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTv2ujqxRs

Welcome to the offseason, boys...it promises to be an interesting one.

Still have a sour feeling in my stomach after last night's disaster, but my overall take hasn't changed, and my opinion will be based more on how well we played in the final quarter of the season, and not how we failed in the final 5 games against a great team. And I'm replying to Tim's post because I agree with Bobby Marks' take. Recency bias has a major impact on a player's reputation, and most who paid attention to the finals aren't feeling very positive about Naz and Ju right now. That combined with the lack of cap space out there and (what I believe) is their desire to stay with this team, I see them both opting in and negotiating longer deals at a team-friendly amount. It won't be enough to keep NAW, but as others have said, we have NAW replacements on our roster who need minutes.

It couldn't be any clearer that Naz is a reserve and we need Rudy on the court to solidify our defense. Last night Rudy took one shot and scored 2 points, and Naz made 5 of his 6 shots. But like we saw the entire series, their respective impact on the scoreboard was strikingly different...Rudy was only a -7 in a 30-point loss, while Naz was a -21. Naz will continue to win games for us on nights where he is productive and he will continue to be a fan favorite (and Rudy's contributions will continue to be undervalued by most fans), but his defense and lack of contribution on the offensive end other than shooting will always label him a bench asset on a good team.

So, my plan would be to bring everyone back except NAW, and trade our draft picks for future draft capital. But we have all seen how TC operates, and my expectation is he will do something nobody is anticipating right now. And I'm confident it will make us better. Probably not better enough to challenge OkC, but better enough to again make the conference finals...and I'm not in the small subsection of posters here who diminish that achievement.

[Q-is-here]

I think I was overly exuberant with our series win over a Lakers team that wasn’t very good. And then we beat the 7 seed playing most of the series without their best player, Curry. We then went on to lose the OKC series in 5 games, getting beat by over 20 points in three of our four losses.

I still like our young core of Ant, Jaden and Naz. I know there are some who would disagree with me on Naz but I think he’d be much better and more consistent as a starter. I also like our recent draft picks - TSJ, Clark, Dilly and Miller. I still like Donte when factoring in his team-friendly contract. So those are the eight guys I’d definitely bring back. I’m still inclined to keep Rudy as well.

Regarding our recent picks, I see no reason why TSJ can’t be our own version of Jalen Williams next season. Clark is already an elite defender and I think he’s a reliable jump shot away from being really really good. I’m higher on Dilly than others on this board. I was watching some video of him the other day from both NBA and college highlights. He’s a really gifted ball handler and terrific passer. Remember also that he hit over 40% of his three attempts in college. He’s very young but I’m willing to be patient and good organizations are typically patient with their young talent.

I’m not worried about Dilly’s size. There’s a pretty long list of prior NBA all-star PGs around his size, many of them in or destined to be in the hall of fame. Dilly’s actual size as a barely 19 year old rookie in the combine was 6’1 without shoes and 164.2 pounds. Consider the following list and their rookie heights/weights (combine metrics unless indicated otherwise):

Allen Iverson: Listed at 6’0, 165 but his actual metrics were probably 5’10.5, 155-160.
John Stockton: Listed at 6’1, 170 but actual metrics were probably 5’11, 160-165
Mark Price: Listed at 6’0, 170 but actual metrics were probably 5’10.5, 160-165
Darren Collison: 6’0.25, 166.2
Mike Conley: 5’11, 175
Chris Paul: 5’11.75, 178
Step Curry: 6’2, 172 (this is Curry’s combine height w/out shoes. It’s the weight that Curry says he played at his rookie season).
Trae Young: 6’0.5, 164
Ja Morant: Listed at 6’2, 174 but actual metrics are probably around 6’0.5, 164-169.
De’Aaron Fox: 6’2, 169.5
Darius Garland: Listed at 6’2, 175 but actual metrics are probably around 6’0.5, 165-170.
Isaiah Joe: 6’3, 170.4

Note that a number of these guys were older than Dilly when their combine measurements were taken so they would naturally be at least a little more physically developed. I’ll add that Dilly had a 42” max vertical in the combine, which is much better than Chris Paul’s 27”, Steph Curry’s 35.5” or Trae Young’s 35”. It’s even better than Iverson’s 41” and Mike Conley’s 40.5”. It’s only 2 inches less than Morant’s 44.” Rob’s three point shooting numbers as a college freshman were better than most on this list.

The above list consists mainly of players were or are all successful NBA rotation players - all but two starting PGs, most with all-star credentials, and many current or future hall of farmers. So it’s not reasonable to conclude that Rob can’t even be a decent starter because of his size. Looking at his elite athleticism and quickness along with his elite ballhandling and college scoring, passing and rebounding stats, I’d can see Rob eventually becoming an allstar caliber PG like many of the comparably sized PGs in the list above. Time will tell but it would be folly to give up on him now. We traded up to draft him at #8. TC knows what he’s doing and Rob was a near consensus top 8 pick among all the experts. I’m excited to see what he can do next season as a 20 year old with a year of NBA practices and some NBA game experience under his belt and with the benefit of watching and learning from Mike Conley.

Great list Lip, thanks for putting this together.

There is also Kyle Lowry and Fred VanVleet, the PG duo that won a title with Toronto, which you probably didn't include because they are certainly a lot more stout than Dilly. But both are also shorter than Rob, so while they have a lot more strength, they are disadvantaged length-wise, so kind of a wash.