Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:38 am

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:09 pm Obviously I have bias here because I’m probably lower on Naz than anyone on this board. With that said doesn’t it worry you that Naz has played in the playoffs for 3 seasons and he has had a negative net rating in all 3 seasons, it’s not like he has been non successful playoff teams, does it not worry you that every postseason his Pts per game, rebounds per game, asts per game go down and his, turnovers per game and fouls per game go up in the playoffs.

There is currently 1 bench player in the nba that makes over 30 million next season and that is Immanuel Quickly. (A terrible contract). And 3 bench players make over 20 million a year in Rozier, Smart and Powell (smart and Powell barely over 20).

For the love of God do not pay starting money for a bench player. Naz has been great, all time great wolves developmental story. If he gets a penny over 20 million a year it’s an overpay, 25 million a year it’s a terrible contract.

Don’t become the 5th team to pay a bench player legit money, because 3 of the other 4 have been massive buyer’s remorse.

Yeah, you've been all over this for a couple years now.

There is a scenario where Randle leaves for free agency or is traded and Naz is promoted to our starting PF where he gets to start next to none other than Rudy and Jaden. That three-man lineup had a +12.1 net rating in this year's playoffs and +7.5 in last year's playoffs. They were a +8.6 in this year's regular season and +4.8 in last year's regular season.

And don't forget that at least a portion of those regular season minutes had Naz starting in both years in place of KAT and Randle. And in other cases he was closing games with Randle on the bench.

The bottom line is that I think there is a viable path to keep Reid, but ironically it's almost better if he's starting. Then we can go out and find a free agent defensive Center (like my guy Looney!) so that Reid is NEVER out there as a Center and plays exclusively PF.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:38 am

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:09 pm Obviously I have bias here because I’m probably lower on Naz than anyone on this board. With that said doesn’t it worry you that Naz has played in the playoffs for 3 seasons and he has had a negative net rating in all 3 seasons, it’s not like he has been non successful playoff teams, does it not worry you that every postseason his Pts per game, rebounds per game, asts per game go down and his, turnovers per game and fouls per game go up in the playoffs.

There is currently 1 bench player in the nba that makes over 30 million next season and that is Immanuel Quickly. (A terrible contract). And 3 bench players make over 20 million a year in Rozier, Smart and Powell (smart and Powell barely over 20).

For the love of God do not pay starting money for a bench player. Naz has been great, all time great wolves developmental story. If he gets a penny over 20 million a year it’s an overpay, 25 million a year it’s a terrible contract.

Don’t become the 5th team to pay a bench player legit money, because 3 of the other 4 have been massive buyer’s remorse.

Yeah, you've been all over this for a couple years now.

There is a scenario where Randle leaves for free agency or is traded and Naz is promoted to our starting PF where he gets to start next to none other than Rudy and Jaden. That three-man lineup had a +12.1 net rating in this year's playoffs and +7.5 in last year's playoffs. They were a +8.6 in this year's regular season and +4.8 in last year's regular season.

And don't forget that at least a portion of those regular season minutes had Naz starting in both years in place of KAT and Randle. And in other cases he was closing games with Randle on the bench.

The bottom line is that I think there is a viable path to keep Reid, but ironically it's almost better if he's starting. Then we can go out and find a free agent defensive Center (like my guy Looney!) so that Reid is NEVER out there as a Center and plays exclusively PF.

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:38 am

Yeah, you've been all over this for a couple years now.

There is a scenario where Randle leaves for free agency or is traded and Naz is promoted to our starting PF where he gets to start next to none other than Rudy and Jaden. That three-man lineup had a +12.1 net rating in this year's playoffs and +7.5 in last year's playoffs. They were a +8.6 in this year's regular season and +4.8 in last year's regular season.

And don't forget that at least a portion of those regular season minutes had Naz starting in both years in place of KAT and Randle. And in other cases he was closing games with Randle on the bench.

The bottom line is that I think there is a viable path to keep Reid, but ironically it's almost better if he's starting. Then we can go out and find a free agent defensive Center (like my guy Looney!) so that Reid is NEVER out there as a Center and plays exclusively PF.

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:38 am

Yeah, you've been all over this for a couple years now.

There is a scenario where Randle leaves for free agency or is traded and Naz is promoted to our starting PF where he gets to start next to none other than Rudy and Jaden. That three-man lineup had a +12.1 net rating in this year's playoffs and +7.5 in last year's playoffs. They were a +8.6 in this year's regular season and +4.8 in last year's regular season.

And don't forget that at least a portion of those regular season minutes had Naz starting in both years in place of KAT and Randle. And in other cases he was closing games with Randle on the bench.

The bottom line is that I think there is a viable path to keep Reid, but ironically it's almost better if he's starting. Then we can go out and find a free agent defensive Center (like my guy Looney!) so that Reid is NEVER out there as a Center and plays exclusively PF.

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:25 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

It's interesting how narratives take shape. Dave Jacoby, Kevin O'Connor's replacement on The Mismatch podcast, has discussed how shocked he was with Randle through the first two rounds of the playoffs. The guy is a NY Knicks fan... and repeatedly said he NEVER (with emphasis) had (m)any assists in NY.

Ummm... he has sticky hands, but the guy did average at least 5 assists in 3 of his final 4 seasons there... even averaging 6 assists once.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:30 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

I agree, the team was really rolling the back 1/3 of the year, until they met the buzzsaw that is OKC. It obviously can work, but I absolutely hated how Randle acted in that game 5. He literally quit on the floor because it wasn't going his way. I don't want that around the young guys, so I'd love to see him opt-out or get traded so we can keep both Naz and Naw (if the contracts are reasonable). If the Wolves and Randle enter negotiations on an extension I would probably offer something like 3/75, with little wiggle room. He isn't a good enough rebounder, defender, and can get out of control on offense, and then of course the quitting aspect. If he opts-in, of those teams you listed, who would you want in return for Randle in a trade that is reasonable?

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:36 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:30 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

I agree, the team was really rolling the back 1/3 of the year, until they met the buzzsaw that is OKC. It obviously can work, but I absolutely hated how Randle acted in that game 5. He literally quit on the floor because it wasn't going his way. I don't want that around the young guys, so I'd love to see him opt-out or get traded so we can keep both Naz and Naw (if the contracts are reasonable). If the Wolves and Randle enter negotiations on an extension I would probably offer something like 3/75, with little wiggle room. He isn't a good enough rebounder, defender, and can get out of control on offense, and then of course the quitting aspect. If he opts-in, of those teams you listed, who would you want in return for Randle in a trade that is reasonable?

Yes. And no.

He stood there dejected when the ball was stolen in the first half. Bad look.

But how much of it was that he was just caught on camera compared to other guys. He had 0% chance to stop the breakaway(s). And... he came back out in the 2nd half to score 13 points in the 3rd quarter.

Meanwhile, I thought Jaden McDaniels was completely out of the game after the first 4 minutes... both offensively and defensively. The only difference was that his face is obviously less demonstrative than Randle. But I thought it was clear that McDaniels mailed in most of his Game 5 performance.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:30 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:15 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:26 am

That would be ideal, but what is the likelihood that Randle does not opt-in? Only Brooklyn has the money to offer 30+, and they're in a full rebuild. Likely not looking to spend that on a 31 year old. Of course there is the trade option, but who wants/needs him?

I think Finch did an outstanding job taking a somewhat distressed asset and turning it into the 2nd option on a WCF team. Obviously Randle gets credit too. He contributed to high-level winning and I'll bet plenty of GMs took notice at how he was utilized.

There are a number of teams out East that could use a guy like Randle, including Miami, Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago.

I agree, the team was really rolling the back 1/3 of the year, until they met the buzzsaw that is OKC. It obviously can work, but I absolutely hated how Randle acted in that game 5. He literally quit on the floor because it wasn't going his way. I don't want that around the young guys, so I'd love to see him opt-out or get traded so we can keep both Naz and Naw (if the contracts are reasonable). If the Wolves and Randle enter negotiations on an extension I would probably offer something like 3/75, with little wiggle room. He isn't a good enough rebounder, defender, and can get out of control on offense, and then of course the quitting aspect. If he opts-in, of those teams you listed, who would you want in return for Randle in a trade that is reasonable?

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:24 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:10 pm

D-Loser25 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 10:00 pm

Exactly. I said 20, but that would be reluctantly. The dude completely forgot how to dribble in the playoffs and the passing was dreadful too. I mean the guy doesn’t rebound or play defense either.

I think there’s room to debate Naz Reid’s monetary and basketball value to the Wolves. But some things are just silly. The claim that he doesn’t play defense is contradicted by the facts. Naz had a defensive rating of 110.4 this season, which was 3rd best on the Wolves behind Rudy at 108.8 and Jaden at 110.3. Naz’s defensive rating was 18th in the entire League. To say Naz doesn’t rebound is hyperbolic to say the least. He’s not as good as he should be but he wasn’t terrible. In fact, he averaged 9.0 rebounds as a starter, which was better than Julius and in line with what you’d expect from a good starting PF in the NBA. And keep in mind that Jaden took a huge leap forward from being a poor rebounder to being a good one just this past season. He got sloppy with the ball in the playoffs but of course so did Ant and Randle. Bottom line is that over the course of the entire season, Naz averaged only 1.4 turnovers per game overall and 1.5 as a starter averaging over 35 minutes per game. So he’s excellent at protecting the ball. The ball doesn’t stick to his fingers and he keeps the offensive flowing.

I look at his stats as a starter for 17 games this past season and wonder what team would not want a starting PF who averages 18.3 points, 9 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.5 blocks and only 1.5 turnovers. As a 25 year old late bloomer, it’s highly likely Naz has more untapped upside that he’ll start to show with consistent minutes as a starter.

Again, I don’t know his dollar value. The market will eventually give us the answer to that question. But if the choice is between Naz and Randle as our starting PF next season that seems like a pretty easy call to me. And if the Wolves have to pay Naz $30 million per year because the market tells us that’s his value and we can sign him without losing any core players or bumping up above the 2nd apron, then it would seem to make sense to sign him. My sense is that he won’t get an offer that starts at $30 million per year. I see his top offers starting at around $25 million and I think it would be a big mistake not to sign him at that price.

Naz defensive rating without Rudy in the playoffs 117.1. 6.6 points per 100 worse when Naz gets to play with Rudy.

Same thing happened in the regular season Naz w/o Rudy 115.4 and with Rudy 103.6 (99th percentile).


Rudy is the Naz defensive savior. With Rudy on the floor the wolves are an elite defense when Rudy comes off and Naz is still in the regular season the defense was slightly below average and in the playoffs it cratered. Rudy skews Naz defensive numbers dramatically.