Minnesota Sports Forum

TeamRicky wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm getting the feeling we're eventually going to wind up with Jamal Murray falling in our laps somehow. I can't and wouldn't complain about that. Top-three in all likelihood will be Ingram, Simmons, and Bender in some order based on upside. Then there's the very real possibility of Dunn or Brown sneaking up after them with great combine/workout showings and impressive athletic ability.

I'm starting to go back and re-watch Kentucky games in their entirety to see more of Murray (first time around it's natural to watch him as well as Skal and Ulis, while enjoying the game). Offensively, he could really be something special in the NBA despite his limited physical profile. I really believe that.

That's pretty much the worst case scenario for us. I don't think Murray is a top 5 player and he's a bad fit for this team. He's the worst defender slated to go in the top ten picks and we need someone who can defend. The Big 2 and Hield, Dunn and Bender/Brown are all better options if we get a top 5 pick. I'd rather trade down for multiple first rounders over selecting Murray. After the Big 2 and next 3, the talent evens out so that a guy you draft at 7 may not be much more likely to succeed than a guy taken at 21.

We don't need 2 more rookies on the team.

TeamRicky wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm getting the feeling we're eventually going to wind up with Jamal Murray falling in our laps somehow. I can't and wouldn't complain about that. Top-three in all likelihood will be Ingram, Simmons, and Bender in some order based on upside. Then there's the very real possibility of Dunn or Brown sneaking up after them with great combine/workout showings and impressive athletic ability.

I'm starting to go back and re-watch Kentucky games in their entirety to see more of Murray (first time around it's natural to watch him as well as Skal and Ulis, while enjoying the game). Offensively, he could really be something special in the NBA despite his limited physical profile. I really believe that.

That's pretty much the worst case scenario for us. I don't think Murray is a top 5 player and he's a bad fit for this team. He's the worst defender slated to go in the top ten picks and we need someone who can defend. The Big 2 and Hield, Dunn and Bender/Brown are all better options if we get a top 5 pick. I'd rather trade down for multiple first rounders over selecting Murray. After the Big 2 and next 3, the talent evens out so that a guy you draft at 7 may not be much more likely to succeed than a guy taken at 21.

I thoroughly know your position on Murray, TeamRicky, as we've already been back and forth over him in depth more than enough times. I respect your opinion as I hope you do mine even though we're on completely different sides. I also hope you'll appreciate that I will do my very best not to engage in or retort towards your anti-Murray posts for two reasons. First, we both know how we feel about the prospect in question and there isn't much need to rehash that. Secondly, it will be the same exact argument we've already had and that's neither productive nor entertaining for the forum.

This is my way of saying we've argued as much as we're going to over one player and I'd like to specifically put this one behind us, for now. That's not to say that we can't or won't talk about Murray with other posters, but if it's a direct reply to you that revolves around him, I will leave it alone. I'm sure you agree going around and around with no real way to alter each other's perspective is very tiresome.

lipoli390 wrote:Cam - I'd be interested in your thoughts about Murray after you've had the chance to re-watch the Kentucky games. I saw him play only twice this season and both times I was underwhelmed. But his stats are really impressive for a freshman.

I'll do my best to record my thoughts as I'm watching and move them into this thread at some point. And to keep it relatively fair, I won't just be watching the games he was successful in, but also games that it's obvious he struggled and will look for why that was the case.

PS: Off topic, but how was your Hawaiian experience? I never did get around to asking you about that. Hope it was a blast.

I think after Ingram, Simmons and Bender I'd go Dunn. At 6-4 220 he's big enough to play the 2 off the bench next to Tyus. He defends well and his shot is improving. He's insurance that we have 2 PG's on the team if Ricky goes down. If we need to shorten our rotation you can play Ricky/Dunn/Lavine in the backcourt together. Yes he's old for a prospect, but frankly I don't care about missing out on 2-3 years of NBA play when his career is said and done. I think he has a role now and protects us from injuries which are important moving forward to being a deep team that can win games even through a couple injuries. He has position flexibility offensively and defensively which is a benefit and keeps the trend of adding two way players to the roster. He's not as good a shooter as Murray or Hield, but I think he brings more to the table overall and he showed his shot can improve to a reliable enough level.

khans2k5 wrote:I think after Ingram, Simmons and Bender I'd go Dunn. At 6-4 220 he's big enough to play the 2 off the bench next to Tyus. He defends well and his shot is improving. He's insurance that we have 2 PG's on the team if Ricky goes down. If we need to shorten our rotation you can play Ricky/Dunn/Lavine in the backcourt together. Yes he's old for a prospect, but frankly I don't care about missing out on 2-3 years of NBA play when his career is said and done. I think he has a role now and protects us from injuries which are important moving forward to being a deep team that can win games even through a couple injuries. He has position flexibility offensively and defensively which is a benefit and keeps the trend of adding two way players to the roster. He's not as good a shooter as Murray or Hield, but I think he brings more to the table overall and he showed his shot can improve to a reliable enough level.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here about Kris Dunn, but I'm still hesitant to draft him over guys like Jamal Murray, Buddy Hield, and Jakob Poeltl. I think adding our third point guard via free agency is the way that I'd go. As I've noted previously, Ronnie Price is an option that I really like. Ricky Rubio's the present and future as far as I'm concerned as our starting point guard, and Tyus Jones has really shown some good (and bad) things since being given regular playing time. I'll put it this way, I'm intrigued enough to see him play another year in that role and reevaluate after the 2016-17 season. Not to mention we did give up some valuable 2nd-rounders to add Jones so I think we owe it to ourselves to see this investment through at least one more 82-game season.

Dunn would be a great replacement for Rubio. Size, skill and athleticism are through the roof. He loves to share the ball. Not only does he fill a need but has the skill to match. Good call Kahns.

I wouldn't take Dunn as a replacement to Rubio or to play over Tyus as Ricky's backup. He would start out as Zach's backup and play next to Tyus. Then a combination of Ricky's continuing health, Tyus' development and just how good Dunn actually is would decide how much and where he plays. He's insurance for multiple guys to start out with and then he's got to beat them out to make them his insurance. Ideally down the road we'd have a combo guard behind Ricky and Lavine who can play both spots. Tyus isn't big enough, but Dunn is and played off the ball a lot this year in addition to being on the ball. Also, Dunn turned the ball over too much for me to just hand him the keys to the second unit. That's something he's got to work on before he becomes a better option to backup Ricky than Tyus. That's why I like him playing next to Tyus in the beginning. A double PG lineup with one who's big enough and long enough to guard two's. I like Dunn's long-term prospects as a PG, but for now I think you reverse Lavine him and play him at the 2 so he gets to improve his shooting and decision making in a secondary ball handler role and doesn't kill us with turnovers.

Camden wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm getting the feeling we're eventually going to wind up with Jamal Murray falling in our laps somehow. I can't and wouldn't complain about that. Top-three in all likelihood will be Ingram, Simmons, and Bender in some order based on upside. Then there's the very real possibility of Dunn or Brown sneaking up after them with great combine/workout showings and impressive athletic ability.

I'm starting to go back and re-watch Kentucky games in their entirety to see more of Murray (first time around it's natural to watch him as well as Skal and Ulis, while enjoying the game). Offensively, he could really be something special in the NBA despite his limited physical profile. I really believe that.

That's pretty much the worst case scenario for us. I don't think Murray is a top 5 player and he's a bad fit for this team. He's the worst defender slated to go in the top ten picks and we need someone who can defend. The Big 2 and Hield, Dunn and Bender/Brown are all better options if we get a top 5 pick. I'd rather trade down for multiple first rounders over selecting Murray. After the Big 2 and next 3, the talent evens out so that a guy you draft at 7 may not be much more likely to succeed than a guy taken at 21.

I thoroughly know your position on Murray, TeamRicky, as we've already been back and forth over him in depth more than enough times. I respect your opinion as I hope you do mine even though we're on completely different sides. I also hope you'll appreciate that I will do my very best not to engage in or retort towards your anti-Murray posts for two reasons. First, we both know how we feel about the prospect in question and there isn't much need to rehash that. Secondly, it will be the same exact argument we've already had and that's neither productive nor entertaining for the forum.

This is my way of saying we've argued as much as we're going to over one player and I'd like to specifically put this one behind us, for now. That's not to say that we can't or won't talk about Murray with other posters, but if it's a direct reply to you that revolves around him, I will leave it alone. I'm sure you agree going around and around with no real way to alter each other's perspective is very tiresome.

Well, I don't get why you have such great love for Murray and you post ad nauseum about him. I thought you liked defensive minded players, so its a bit puzzling why you want the worst defending top ten guy for us. Plus Murray is not a great passer (he has more turnovers than assists) and is undersized at the 2. So, when you tout Murray as a great pick in the top 5, I can't stay silent. Yeah I know we disagree about Murray and I have no desire to keep going back and forth.

khans2k5 wrote:I wouldn't take Dunn as a replacement to Rubio or to play over Tyus as Ricky's backup. He would start out as Zach's backup and play next to Tyus. Then a combination of Ricky's continuing health, Tyus' development and just how good Dunn actually is would decide how much and where he plays. He's insurance for multiple guys to start out with and then he's got to beat them out to make them his insurance. Ideally down the road we'd have a combo guard behind Ricky and Lavine who can play both spots. Tyus isn't big enough, but Dunn is and played off the ball a lot this year in addition to being on the ball. Also, Dunn turned the ball over too much for me to just hand him the keys to the second unit. That's something he's got to work on before he becomes a better option to backup Ricky than Tyus. That's why I like him playing next to Tyus in the beginning. A double PG lineup with one who's big enough and long enough to guard two's. I like Dunn's long-term prospects as a PG, but for now I think you reverse Lavine him and play him at the 2 so he gets to improve his shooting and decision making in a secondary ball handler role and doesn't kill us with turnovers.

That's a different take on Dunn it gives me something to think about and I am not really a fan of taking Dunn.

I believe our odds of getting Houston's second rounder are close to 1% now. Here's what has to happen:
Houston has to win its last two games over us and Sacramento. Dallas has to lose its last two games to San Antonio and Utah. Utah has to lose to the Lakers. Also, Houston has to win coin toss against both Dallas and Utah. If every event has an equal probability of happening, the odds are 1 in 96.