Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

That's a long, highly uncertain road to cap space. The only teams that could take Teague in a trade without giving us matching salary in return would be the few way under the cap and not interested in saving that space for anyone else. I think that is super highly unlikely. I think it's just as unlikely he opts out and gives up a sure $19 million for some longer term deal that might get him that amount over a period of years. And even if we can shed his salary completely, we'd still be $7 million over the cap with cap holds. So to get meaningful cap room, we'd have to renounce all of our cap holds on Tyus, Gibson, Tolliver, Rose, etc. That would leave us something close to the space you're contemplating, but we'd have at least 9 roster spots to fill. I'll add that this is MN and we'd be a very uncertain bet for top free agents next summer even if we were in an ideal climate/market given our personnel, management and ownership situations. Free agency simply isn't an answer for a mid-market franchise like ours, especially one that doesn't have the success and reputation of an organization like the Spurs. I find letting Butler walk as a FA a totally unacceptable result.

I'm not suggesting we are going after the top names. The funny thing is right now...the cap hold for Rose is something I didn't think about...but it doesn't matter. Its basically the same amount as the vet minimum. Thibs is a genius. =) If Rose was still on the team or planned to resign...that might be enough for Teague to look elsewhere.

the reality is...The Wolves should be looking for more than what people think they should be settling for. Look what the Clippers got for Blake Griffin. They got 3 useful players and draft compensation. Blake had injury history some other problems and locked into a massive contract similar to what you would be giving Butler if he came here. Griffin isn't much younger than Butler and Butler is a better 2 way player and likely better all around player PLUS he is a wing which adds even more to his value. Will the Wolves get that kind of haul? No but they should be getting more than a young promising player plus a draft pick while taking on bad salary. I'm back to thinking Thibs isn't as opposed to trading Butler as its being made out to be he is asking for a high price which isn't as insane as people want to make it out to be. NOBODY thought the Rockets were gonna offer 4 first round picks. Like Jon K said on the miami podcast...Thibs isn't going to be the first guy to blink in this situation. Thibs stubbornness and adherence to principals is maddening but there could end up being some benefits eventually.

sjm34 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

That's a long, highly uncertain road to cap space. The only teams that could take Teague in a trade without giving us matching salary in return would be the few way under the cap and not interested in saving that space for anyone else. I think that is super highly unlikely. I think it's just as unlikely he opts out and gives up a sure $19 million for some longer term deal that might get him that amount over a period of years. And even if we can shed his salary completely, we'd still be $7 million over the cap with cap holds. So to get meaningful cap room, we'd have to renounce all of our cap holds on Tyus, Gibson, Tolliver, Rose, etc. That would leave us something close to the space you're contemplating, but we'd have at least 9 roster spots to fill. I'll add that this is MN and we'd be a very uncertain bet for top free agents next summer even if we were in an ideal climate/market given our personnel, management and ownership situations. Free agency simply isn't an answer for a mid-market franchise like ours, especially one that doesn't have the success and reputation of an organization like the Spurs. I find letting Butler walk as a FA a totally unacceptable result.

I'm not suggesting we are going after the top names. The funny thing is right now...the cap hold for Rose is something I didn't think about...but it doesn't matter. Its basically the same amount as the vet minimum. Thibs is a genius. =) If Rose was still on the team or planned to resign...that might be enough for Teague to look elsewhere.

the reality is...The Wolves should be looking for more than what people think they should be settling for. Look what the Clippers got for Blake Griffin. They got 3 useful players and draft compensation. Blake had injury history some other problems and locked into a massive contract similar to what you would be giving Butler if he came here. Griffin isn't much younger than Butler and Butler is a better 2 way player and likely better all around player PLUS he is a wing which adds even more to his value. Will the Wolves get that kind of haul? No but they should be getting more than a young promising player plus a draft pick while taking on bad salary. I'm back to thinking Thibs isn't as opposed to trading Butler as its being made out to be he is asking for a high price which isn't as insane as people want to make it out to be. NOBODY thought the Rockets were gonna offer 4 first round picks. Like Jon K said on the miami podcast...Thibs isn't going to be the first guy to blink in this situation. Thibs stubbornness and adherence to principals is maddening but there could end up being some benefits eventually.

I agree with Monster on this one. We can't get caught up in the media wanting to see Bulter moved. He has a certain value that we should expect. Remember that Miami has no other way to acquire a guy like Butler due to their poor cap management. We shouldn't pay the price for that. I don't know that I agree that Thibs doesn't want to move Butler, but expecting a fair return isn't unreasonable.

I have no problem letting him walk if the return deal is Jrich a low first and a bad contract. As others have stated, you have to add that money to JRich.

As always though, Jerry and I would be happy to give Jimmy a big FU and cost him 50mil on his next signing.

monsterpile wrote:I saw some tweets and polls on Twitter asking if the Celtics should trade Terry Rozier in a package to get Butler. I was surprised it was split 50/50. The trade as I remember it in the poll was Rozier, Morris and a first round pick for Butler. One problem was not enough salary to make it work but I was still a bit surprised at the 50/50 split...when I looked at it anyway. I like Rozier. I think he is in some way shape or form a good NBA player. How good? Idk How much would I want to pay him as he is a RFA next summer? Idk that either. IF he is something near what we saw later last year he would be a really nice get for this team. He plays hard too which we could also use. I think he and Tyus could even play together SOME.

I HATE looking at trading for these guys that weren't top 10 picks that in theory we should be able to draft and develop ourselves either with our own picks or with one's we acquire moving vets. Okogie looks like he has a legit chance and being one of those guys. Tyus might be one also and part of the picks used to move up to draft him were trading away vets. We need more good players however we can get them AND develop them. Sigh...it's sad when it feels like that's expecting too much from this franchise. The positive is that it looks like we may have finally gotten something in the reclamation project option with Rose.

lipoli390 wrote:The rumor on twitter is that the Wolves and Celtics are talking about trading Butler and Rose for Rozier, the Sacramento top 1 protected pick and "filler." The only reason for the Wolves to consider that deal is the Sacramento pick, but the way the Kings are playing now, the pick is looking more like a 7-12 pick than a 2-5. I wouldn't even trade Rose straight up for Rozier. It's such a bad deal that I don't think the rumor is credible. To make salaries work, the "filler" would probably have to be Kyrie or Horford. Of course that's not going out happen. I've thought before about the possibility of dealing Butler and Gorgui for Hayward and a couple 1st round picks, including the Sacramento 2019 pick. I could see a deal like that making some sense for both teams.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The rumor on twitter is that the Wolves and Celtics are talking about trading Butler and Rose for Rozier, the Sacramento top 1 protected pick and "filler." The only reason for the Wolves to consider that deal is the Sacramento pick, but the way the Kings are playing now, the pick is looking more like a 7-12 pick than a 2-5. I wouldn't even trade Rose straight up for Rozier. It's such a bad deal that I don't think the rumor is credible. To make salaries work, the "filler" would probably have to be Kyrie or Horford. Of course that's not going out happen. I've thought before about the possibility of dealing Butler and Gorgui for Hayward and a couple 1st round picks, including the Sacramento 2019 pick. I could see a deal like that making some sense for both teams.

Lip what I saw I don't even think it was a rumor. It was just people saying...Oh the Celtics and Rozier aren't on the same page...Jimmy Butler is available let's figure out a trade!!! It didn't sound like anything was there but I was curious what people thought about Rozier.