Minnesota Sports Forum

Any interest in the local kid if he becomes available? Lets say for a 3rd round pick.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Any interest in the local kid if he becomes available? Lets say for a 3rd round pick.

Nah Rick Spielman had it half right accumulate all those late round picks but use em on QBs!!!

Ha - Sounds like 49ers will be moving on from Lance.

PA is pushing for a DT in the draft. I agree with that sentiment. It is one of those positions were they rarely are picked up later in the draft.

IDK about Lance. San Fran might get too much for him, and it's not like he has proven anything yet. For sure I would give up a 3rd for him. I can't see that happening though.

I really think we just need to start taking shots though. Bring in two QB's every year, even if they are 4th round or later picks. You could get the next San Fran guy or Brady, you never know. Keep whoever shows the highest potential in practice and preseason. If none of them show much like Mond didn't, then keep taking swings. Just every year take a couple swings till you hit.

WolvesFan21 wrote:IDK about Lance. San Fran might get too much for him, and it's not like he has proven anything yet. For sure I would give up a 3rd for him. I can't see that happening though.

I really think we just need to start taking shots though. Bring in two QB's every year, even if they are 4th round or later picks. You could get the next San Fran guy or Brady, you never know. Keep whoever shows the highest potential in practice and preseason. If none of them show much like Mond didn't, then keep taking swings. Just every year take a couple swings till you hit.

I hope they resign Mullins for cheap or someone more capable like him to be the backup.

The Vikings did actually do half of what you suggest for a number of years. They signed QBs as priority undrafted FAs etc. It turns out they actually got a worthwhile QB in Heinickie. Sloter is still a legend among Vikings fans. Lol At best they hit on a guy that became a fringe starter that's obviously not good enough.

Meanwhile the guy that made the team instead of Heinickie Case Keemun is at least a pretty good backup. I think there is something to be said for signing cheap guys that maybe haven't made it or figured it out yet. You might find something there. I think something that COULD be sort of a big deal is if O'Connell is actually a good offensive mind and coach that gets more out of QBs than average would help a lot with the QB situation. I feel like Cousins was overall a better QB this year maybe he takes another small step forward next year under O'Connell. The Vikings had a new OC every year and had a defensive coach plus at times an offense that catered to AP. Of course for a chunk of the Zimmer Era it should have been kinda easy to play QB. Don't suck hand of the ball to a good RB and let the D win games. Of course another problem for a chunk of time was the oline was terrible. It's not fixed yet but I feel like we are finally getting to the place where they have some above average players and something to build around there. There were years where Riley Reiff at LT that was their best olineman. Yikes.

Anyways obviously some really good QBs would probably be really good regardless but I think the Vikings COULD have some aspects of their organization that would produce better results regardless of their talent selecting skills which could be better than before as well.

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:IDK about Lance. San Fran might get too much for him, and it's not like he has proven anything yet. For sure I would give up a 3rd for him. I can't see that happening though.

I really think we just need to start taking shots though. Bring in two QB's every year, even if they are 4th round or later picks. You could get the next San Fran guy or Brady, you never know. Keep whoever shows the highest potential in practice and preseason. If none of them show much like Mond didn't, then keep taking swings. Just every year take a couple swings till you hit.

I hope they resign Mullins for cheap or someone more capable like him to be the backup.

The Vikings did actually do half of what you suggest for a number of years. They signed QBs as priority undrafted FAs etc. It turns out they actually got a worthwhile QB in Heinickie. Sloter is still a legend among Vikings fans. Lol At best they hit on a guy that became a fringe starter that's obviously not good enough.

Meanwhile the guy that made the team instead of Heinickie Case Keemun is at least a pretty good backup. I think there is something to be said for signing cheap guys that maybe haven't made it or figured it out yet. You might find something there. I think something that COULD be sort of a big deal is if O'Connell is actually a good offensive mind and coach that gets more out of QBs than average would help a lot with the QB situation. I feel like Cousins was overall a better QB this year maybe he takes another small step forward next year under O'Connell. The Vikings had a new OC every year and had a defensive coach plus at times an offense that catered to AP. Of course for a chunk of the Zimmer Era it should have been kinda easy to play QB. Don't suck hand of the ball to a good RB and let the D win games. Of course another problem for a chunk of time was the oline was terrible. It's not fixed yet but I feel like we are finally getting to the place where they have some above average players and something to build around there. There were years where Riley Reiff at LT that was their best olineman. Yikes.

Anyways obviously some really good QBs would probably be really good regardless but I think the Vikings COULD have some aspects of their organization that would produce better results regardless of their talent selecting skills which could be better than before as well.

Kirk is old and expensive and is poor at scrambling. The defense sucks and is old. I just don't see a path in the near term to a SB contending team. They are not one now. They got smoked when facing most good to great teams, even losing at home to a mediocre Giants squad. The one score wins were great and all, but I see it as a little bit of a false confidence. They had some luck and plays go their way. Sure give them credit but now what?

I really think it's time to blow it up. If the player is over 30 either cut or trade them. Yeah it sucks that the team has no chance to compete, but I don't think they can if they even bring back all their aging former star players. They just don't have much left in the tank (Thielen, Harrison, Kendricks, etc....). They got a few studs but way too many duds. Darrisaw, JJ, Hock and Hunter.

Honestly 10 guys on defense could be replaced or upgraded. That is how bad they are. I just do not see a near term path contention, it's going to take a couple of great drafts to get a possible contender. They simply have drafted way too poorly for too long. Way too many busts from the Kellen Monds to the half dozen of DB's who pretty much have shown nothing, the 2nd round guard who sucked ass, the 1st round center who finally played decent. You can't keep drafting bad and not have it come home to roost eventually. Xavier Rhodes was a long time ago. You got to start right now hitting on multiple picks, 3-5 starters in each draft. That is going to be tough to do.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:IDK about Lance. San Fran might get too much for him, and it's not like he has proven anything yet. For sure I would give up a 3rd for him. I can't see that happening though.

I really think we just need to start taking shots though. Bring in two QB's every year, even if they are 4th round or later picks. You could get the next San Fran guy or Brady, you never know. Keep whoever shows the highest potential in practice and preseason. If none of them show much like Mond didn't, then keep taking swings. Just every year take a couple swings till you hit.

I hope they resign Mullins for cheap or someone more capable like him to be the backup.

The Vikings did actually do half of what you suggest for a number of years. They signed QBs as priority undrafted FAs etc. It turns out they actually got a worthwhile QB in Heinickie. Sloter is still a legend among Vikings fans. Lol At best they hit on a guy that became a fringe starter that's obviously not good enough.

Meanwhile the guy that made the team instead of Heinickie Case Keemun is at least a pretty good backup. I think there is something to be said for signing cheap guys that maybe haven't made it or figured it out yet. You might find something there. I think something that COULD be sort of a big deal is if O'Connell is actually a good offensive mind and coach that gets more out of QBs than average would help a lot with the QB situation. I feel like Cousins was overall a better QB this year maybe he takes another small step forward next year under O'Connell. The Vikings had a new OC every year and had a defensive coach plus at times an offense that catered to AP. Of course for a chunk of the Zimmer Era it should have been kinda easy to play QB. Don't suck hand of the ball to a good RB and let the D win games. Of course another problem for a chunk of time was the oline was terrible. It's not fixed yet but I feel like we are finally getting to the place where they have some above average players and something to build around there. There were years where Riley Reiff at LT that was their best olineman. Yikes.

Anyways obviously some really good QBs would probably be really good regardless but I think the Vikings COULD have some aspects of their organization that would produce better results regardless of their talent selecting skills which could be better than before as well.

Kirk is old and expensive and is poor at scrambling. The defense sucks and is old. I just don't see a path in the near term to a SB contending team. They are not one now. They got smoked when facing most good to great teams, even losing at home to a mediocre Giants squad. The one score wins were great and all, but I see it as a little bit of a false confidence. They had some luck and plays go their way. Sure give them credit but now what?

I really think it's time to blow it up. If the player is over 30 either cut or trade them. Yeah it sucks that the team has no chance to compete, but I don't think they can if they even bring back all their aging former star players. They just don't have much left in the tank (Thielen, Harrison, Kendricks, etc....). They got a few studs but way too many duds. Darrisaw, JJ, Hock and Hunter.

Honestly 10 guys on defense could be replaced or upgraded. That is how bad they are. I just do not see a near term path contention, it's going to take a couple of great drafts to get a possible contender. They simply have drafted way too poorly for too long. Way too many busts from the Kellen Monds to the half dozen of DB's who pretty much have shown nothing, the 2nd round guard who sucked ass, the 1st round center who finally played decent. You can't keep drafting bad and not have it come home to roost eventually. Xavier Rhodes was a long time ago. You got to start right now hitting on multiple picks, 3-5 starters in each draft. That is going to be tough to do.

it would certainly be interesting to know what a team would be willing to give up for Cousins now honestly I think his value is higher than last season when he was pretty good.

Maybe all those older defensive players really dropped off. It's quite possible. It's also possible Ed Donatell was a really bad DC and getting someone in here with a better scheme could improve the D significantly. Can you imagine of the Vikings had even like the 19th ranked defense his year instead of one of the absolute worst defensives? It's kinda hard to believe how they were worse with arguably more healthy talent than they had last season where they weren't very good under Zimmer.

Regardless they have a number of vet players they have to make decisions on. Personally one guy I would actually be considering moving on from if they were going to rebuild in some way is Dalvin Cook. If they let him go this year it would be just over 6 million in dead money and my guess is they could sign Mattison for significantly less. In the past I was not onboard with this kind of swap because I thought there was a significant gap between those 2 players. This season I didn't think Cook looked as dynamic overall as he had in the past. Cook is still the better player but is he worth 2-3 times more money while Mattison is 3 years younger? I don't think the Vikings will let Cook go but it's something I would actually consider. I don't think they will move on from Cousins either.

Some of those other older players? Yeah especially if the players don't want to make something work to stay. We will find out soon enough what direction they go with a couple of them.

Want more bad news? Vikings currently only have 4 draft picks. Maybe they will get a comp pick or 2. One sorta positive of maybe not having any late round picks is undrafted players might be more willing to sign knowing they aren't fighting a 6th rounder or whatever for the roster spot.

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:IDK about Lance. San Fran might get too much for him, and it's not like he has proven anything yet. For sure I would give up a 3rd for him. I can't see that happening though.

I really think we just need to start taking shots though. Bring in two QB's every year, even if they are 4th round or later picks. You could get the next San Fran guy or Brady, you never know. Keep whoever shows the highest potential in practice and preseason. If none of them show much like Mond didn't, then keep taking swings. Just every year take a couple swings till you hit.

I hope they resign Mullins for cheap or someone more capable like him to be the backup.

The Vikings did actually do half of what you suggest for a number of years. They signed QBs as priority undrafted FAs etc. It turns out they actually got a worthwhile QB in Heinickie. Sloter is still a legend among Vikings fans. Lol At best they hit on a guy that became a fringe starter that's obviously not good enough.

Meanwhile the guy that made the team instead of Heinickie Case Keemun is at least a pretty good backup. I think there is something to be said for signing cheap guys that maybe haven't made it or figured it out yet. You might find something there. I think something that COULD be sort of a big deal is if O'Connell is actually a good offensive mind and coach that gets more out of QBs than average would help a lot with the QB situation. I feel like Cousins was overall a better QB this year maybe he takes another small step forward next year under O'Connell. The Vikings had a new OC every year and had a defensive coach plus at times an offense that catered to AP. Of course for a chunk of the Zimmer Era it should have been kinda easy to play QB. Don't suck hand of the ball to a good RB and let the D win games. Of course another problem for a chunk of time was the oline was terrible. It's not fixed yet but I feel like we are finally getting to the place where they have some above average players and something to build around there. There were years where Riley Reiff at LT that was their best olineman. Yikes.

Anyways obviously some really good QBs would probably be really good regardless but I think the Vikings COULD have some aspects of their organization that would produce better results regardless of their talent selecting skills which could be better than before as well.

Kirk is old and expensive and is poor at scrambling. The defense sucks and is old. I just don't see a path in the near term to a SB contending team. They are not one now. They got smoked when facing most good to great teams, even losing at home to a mediocre Giants squad. The one score wins were great and all, but I see it as a little bit of a false confidence. They had some luck and plays go their way. Sure give them credit but now what?

I really think it's time to blow it up. If the player is over 30 either cut or trade them. Yeah it sucks that the team has no chance to compete, but I don't think they can if they even bring back all their aging former star players. They just don't have much left in the tank (Thielen, Harrison, Kendricks, etc....). They got a few studs but way too many duds. Darrisaw, JJ, Hock and Hunter.

Honestly 10 guys on defense could be replaced or upgraded. That is how bad they are. I just do not see a near term path contention, it's going to take a couple of great drafts to get a possible contender. They simply have drafted way too poorly for too long. Way too many busts from the Kellen Monds to the half dozen of DB's who pretty much have shown nothing, the 2nd round guard who sucked ass, the 1st round center who finally played decent. You can't keep drafting bad and not have it come home to roost eventually. Xavier Rhodes was a long time ago. You got to start right now hitting on multiple picks, 3-5 starters in each draft. That is going to be tough to do.

it would certainly be interesting to know what a team would be willing to give up for Cousins now honestly I think his value is higher than last season when he was pretty good.

Maybe all those older defensive players really dropped off. It's quite possible. It's also possible Ed Donatell was a really bad DC and getting someone in here with a better scheme could improve the D significantly. Can you imagine of the Vikings had even like the 19th ranked defense his year instead of one of the absolute worst defensives? It's kinda hard to believe how they were worse with arguably more healthy talent than they had last season where they weren't very good under Zimmer.

Regardless they have a number of vet players they have to make decisions on. Personally one guy I would actually be considering moving on from if they were going to rebuild in some way is Dalvin Cook. If they let him go this year it would be just over 6 million in dead money and my guess is they could sign Mattison for significantly less. In the past I was not onboard with this kind of swap because I thought there was a significant gap between those 2 players. This season I didn't think Cook looked as dynamic overall as he had in the past. Cook is still the better player but is he worth 2-3 times more money while Mattison is 3 years younger? I don't think the Vikings will let Cook go but it's something I would actually consider. I don't think they will move on from Cousins either.

Some of those other older players? Yeah especially if the players don't want to make something work to stay. We will find out soon enough what direction they go with a couple of them.

Want more bad news? Vikings currently only have 4 draft picks. Maybe they will get a comp pick or 2. One sorta positive of maybe not having any late round picks is undrafted players might be more willing to sign knowing they aren't fighting a 6th rounder or whatever for the roster spot.

I can't put too much blame on Ed because the defense was poor for two years, not just last season. It just got slightly worse last year. I don't think Ed helped at all but at the same time the players got to make plays, beat their man one on one. That is on the players in the end. I just don't think they are good enough, in fact they were piss poor. It makes no sense to me to hang onto aging former stars on a bottom 5 defense.

You're right about the picks too, that is the issue. The defense is very likely to suck next year because it's basically impossible to either bring in FA's because of the over the cap situation and they lack of picks and the old players with bloated contracts. It's a bunch of bad players who make a ton and you can't replace them either. Worst case scenario.

I would say the defense was more a talent issue then Ed being a bad DC. Ed's 2021 Bronco teams was certainly not stacked and he had it ranked 5th for least TD's given up. (22nd Vikings) and 3rd in yards given up (Vikngs 24th). After he left it the Bronco's D dropped to 9th and 14th.

I think it is a little of both, but this defense needs to go young. Next year is not going to end any better then this year no matter what you do so I would basically look at going with guys 28 or younger on defense next year.

bleedspeed177 wrote:I would say the defense was more a talent issue then Ed being a bad DC. Ed's 2021 Bronco teams was certainly not stacked and he had it ranked 5th for least TD's given up. (22nd Vikings) and 3rd in yards given up (Vikngs 24th). After he left it the Bronco's D dropped to 9th and 14th.

I think it is a little of both, but this defense needs to go young. Next year is not going to end any better then this year no matter what you do so I would basically look at going with guys 28 or younger on defense next year.

Agreed, You got to start finding out what you have in your young guys, maybe even a FA or two has a chance to get playing time. I would give Cine and Booth chances to play, Mattelus and Assamoua and anyone you draft this year as well. (bad SP I'm sure).