Minnesota Sports Forum

What are the weaklinks going into next season?

PICK 3!!!

I voted QB, RG, and LG. We have our long-term RT now, and our long-term center. Hopefully Ezra Cleveland turns into the answer at LT next offseason. Our guards need a big upgrade. Lock those up and we'll be able to run Cook all day, similar to how the 49ers do.

For QB, Kirk can make all the throws, but doesn't have the intangibles to lead a consistent winner. We need a QB who can bring the rest of the team up (ala Favre, Wilson, Rodgers, etc.) as opposed to playing to the level of team he has around him (Cousins, Stafford, and I'll even throw Matt Ryan into this category to an extent). It looks like there may be some QBs in this upcoming draft to look at.

It's simply too early for me to vote as I don't know who will be here next season and I don't know if maybe some young guys prove themselves the next 10 games. It seems likely at least 1 DB spot will be a pretty high priority but I want to see what happens the rest of the season.

mrhockey89 wrote:I voted QB, RG, and LG. We have our long-term RT now, and our long-term center. Hopefully Ezra Cleveland turns into the answer at LT next offseason. Our guards need a big upgrade. Lock those up and we'll be able to run Cook all day, similar to how the 49ers do.

For QB, Kirk can make all the throws, but doesn't have the intangibles to lead a consistent winner. We need a QB who can bring the rest of the team up (ala Favre, Wilson, Rodgers, etc.) as opposed to playing to the level of team he has around him (Cousins, Stafford, and I'll even throw Matt Ryan into this category to an extent). It looks like there may be some QBs in this upcoming draft to look at.

I went, QB, DE and RG. We need more pressure on the QB and even when Hunter comes back the loss of Ngakoue leaves a fairly big hole which I doubt will see improvement. Though Monster makes a good point it is early to talk draft, but with this season over I can't help but talk about something positive.

Whoever has been plugged into RG has been terrible so I think that spot on the Oline is in dire need, while I think the LG spot is maybe not as bad as the DE spot I suppose. But I can certainly understand the want to upgrade both spot for sure.

Cousins is a mediocre QB. He struggles under pressure more then most QB's with his subpar athleticism. Give him a clean pocket and time then he's fine, it's a spot that of course if we are picking high and a possible better option is out there then you have to do it. It's somewhat unreasonable to have a great pass blocking OLine most of the time, even if ours is piss poor. lol

WolvesFan21 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:I voted QB, RG, and LG. We have our long-term RT now, and our long-term center. Hopefully Ezra Cleveland turns into the answer at LT next offseason. Our guards need a big upgrade. Lock those up and we'll be able to run Cook all day, similar to how the 49ers do.

For QB, Kirk can make all the throws, but doesn't have the intangibles to lead a consistent winner. We need a QB who can bring the rest of the team up (ala Favre, Wilson, Rodgers, etc.) as opposed to playing to the level of team he has around him (Cousins, Stafford, and I'll even throw Matt Ryan into this category to an extent). It looks like there may be some QBs in this upcoming draft to look at.

I went, QB, DE and RG. We need more pressure on the QB and even when Hunter comes back the loss of Ngakoue leaves a fairly big hole which I doubt will see improvement. Though Monster makes a good point it is early to talk draft, but with this season over I can't help but talk about something positive.

Whoever has been plugged into RG has been terrible so I think that spot on the Oline is in dire need, while I think the LG spot is maybe not as bad as the DE spot I suppose. But I can certainly understand the want to upgrade both spot for sure.

Cousins is a mediocre QB. He struggles under pressure more then most QB's with his subpar athleticism. Give him a clean pocket and time then he's fine, it's a spot that of course if we are picking high and a possible better option is out there then you have to do it. It's somewhat unreasonable to have a great pass blocking OLine most of the time, even if ours is piss poor. lol

Cousins problem is not his athleticism. Sure he isn't a world class athlete but he isn't a statue. The problem with Cousins is his feel in the pocket and not making decisions quickly enough. Brady is one of the least athletic QBs in terms of mobility but he has excellent awareness makes those little side steps can make decisions quickly etc etc. Ponder was a better athlete than Cousins and he also had poor awareness but it was even worse with him because he simply wouldn't just let the ball go even more than Cousins. Cousins has more arm talent. Comparing someone to Pomder isn't good and Cousins isn't that bad but again IMO it's not that he isn't athletic it's something else. Cousins being a little shorter probably doesn't help the situation either.

Cousins probably isn't the answer at QB and I think we should absolutely invest in a young QB but Cousins isn't as bad as he has been this season. It's a bit of a catch 22 because if he plays better the rest of the season that could convince the Vikings to stick with him to some extent. On the other hand if he plays better some team may be convinced he is an upgrade over what they currently have. It's also possible that Cousins takes a pay cut realizing the way to help the team is to give up salary to help build the roster. He isn't likely to take this kind of pay cut but if Cousins was making something more like 17 million people would probably give him more of a break and say he is a decent starter getting paid like one and we could build up the roster around him. Cousins taking a pay cut is up to him basically. Taking a meaningful pay cut could also be a strategic move for him as this team's QB. If he took a meaningful pay cut his teammates might give him some additional respect for that. It will be interesting what they do at that spot. The last QB they picked they actually picked a good player. Teddy would be a pretty good fit for this team although he might be somewhat mediocre too but in a different way.

Which brings us to the guard spot. Like I said there is 10 games left so we have a lot more assessment to do but at guard right now we have nobody any of us feel confident in going forward. In addition the Vikings haven't exactly does well in terms of oline so it's hard to assume they are going to get it right especially on the interior. DE and the DBs well I have some faith in them to fill those spots because they have a track record of doing it before. Wonnum might even be the DE of the future. If he isn't they can probably bring back Odenigbo for cheap for a year and draft another mid round guy like the have for over 10 years. Guard is a big hole and nobody seems able to fill it. The good thing is that guard doesn't seem like it's THAT hard to be filled around the league over the years. It's usually harder to find high level guys at some other positions. I wouldn't be upset about a 1st round pick being used on a guard though. Lol I really hope that some team decides they need Reiff and trades for him before the deadline just to save money.

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:I voted QB, RG, and LG. We have our long-term RT now, and our long-term center. Hopefully Ezra Cleveland turns into the answer at LT next offseason. Our guards need a big upgrade. Lock those up and we'll be able to run Cook all day, similar to how the 49ers do.

For QB, Kirk can make all the throws, but doesn't have the intangibles to lead a consistent winner. We need a QB who can bring the rest of the team up (ala Favre, Wilson, Rodgers, etc.) as opposed to playing to the level of team he has around him (Cousins, Stafford, and I'll even throw Matt Ryan into this category to an extent). It looks like there may be some QBs in this upcoming draft to look at.

I went, QB, DE and RG. We need more pressure on the QB and even when Hunter comes back the loss of Ngakoue leaves a fairly big hole which I doubt will see improvement. Though Monster makes a good point it is early to talk draft, but with this season over I can't help but talk about something positive.

Whoever has been plugged into RG has been terrible so I think that spot on the Oline is in dire need, while I think the LG spot is maybe not as bad as the DE spot I suppose. But I can certainly understand the want to upgrade both spot for sure.

Cousins is a mediocre QB. He struggles under pressure more then most QB's with his subpar athleticism. Give him a clean pocket and time then he's fine, it's a spot that of course if we are picking high and a possible better option is out there then you have to do it. It's somewhat unreasonable to have a great pass blocking OLine most of the time, even if ours is piss poor. lol

Cousins problem is not his athleticism. Sure he isn't a world class athlete but he isn't a statue. The problem with Cousins is his feel in the pocket and not making decisions quickly enough. Brady is one of the least athletic QBs in terms of mobility but he has excellent awareness makes those little side steps can make decisions quickly etc etc. Ponder was a better athlete than Cousins and he also had poor awareness but it was even worse with him because he simply wouldn't just let the ball go even more than Cousins. Cousins has more arm talent. Comparing someone to Pomder isn't good and Cousins isn't that bad but again IMO it's not that he isn't athletic it's something else. Cousins being a little shorter probably doesn't help the situation either.

Cousins probably isn't the answer at QB and I think we should absolutely invest in a young QB but Cousins isn't as bad as he has been this season. It's a bit of a catch 22 because if he plays better the rest of the season that could convince the Vikings to stick with him to some extent. On the other hand if he plays better some team may be convinced he is an upgrade over what they currently have. It's also possible that Cousins takes a pay cut realizing the way to help the team is to give up salary to help build the roster. He isn't likely to take this kind of pay cut but if Cousins was making something more like 17 million people would probably give him more of a break and say he is a decent starter getting paid like one and we could build up the roster around him. Cousins taking a pay cut is up to him basically. Taking a meaningful pay cut could also be a strategic move for him as this team's QB. If he took a meaningful pay cut his teammates might give him some additional respect for that. It will be interesting what they do at that spot. The last QB they picked they actually picked a good player. Teddy would be a pretty good fit for this team although he might be somewhat mediocre too but in a different way.

Which brings us to the guard spot. Like I said there is 10 games left so we have a lot more assessment to do but at guard right now we have nobody any of us feel confident in going forward. In addition the Vikings haven't exactly does well in terms of oline so it's hard to assume they are going to get it right especially on the interior. DE and the DBs well I have some faith in them to fill those spots because they have a track record of doing it before. Wonnum might even be the DE of the future. If he isn't they can probably bring back Odenigbo for cheap for a year and draft another mid round guy like the have for over 10 years. Guard is a big hole and nobody seems able to fill it. The good thing is that guard doesn't seem like it's THAT hard to be filled around the league over the years. It's usually harder to find high level guys at some other positions. I wouldn't be upset about a 1st round pick being used on a guard though. Lol I really hope that some team decides they need Reiff and trades for him before the deadline just to save money.

I agree 100% on Cousins. You don't have to be athletic but it helps. Guys like Manning, Brady and Brees have done pretty well being less athletic but being able to feel the pressure before it comes, move in the pocket and still make throws. Cousins is less athletic and has subpar pocket awareness as well.

With a good pass blocking oline I think he could be a winner, but at the same time like you said. He is taking up a ton of cap. Imagine we had a stud in at RG and we won a couple more games? Like you said that savings could come if Cousins wasn't making so much. Brady did it year after year taking way less in order to make sure the team was complete and he had good oline to work with. Sort of an investment into his future.

I doubt we can count on Cousins taking a paycut though. Not at this point. If we could somehow get a trade that would be ideal. I don't think that is happening either. I think we have to look into the draft. I've been watching all the college prospects closely this season to get good idea. Obviously Lawrence. Then we have Fields, that MN kid that went to NDSU (I didn't see enough of him last season, he only played one this year).

I think if you build a top 3 or 4 defense around Cousins, he could be a contending QB. History has shown plenty of middle-ling QBs win Superbowls because they had elite defenses. He's got some big play guys in Cook and Jefferson, so it's not all on him.

The question is does the cost of Cousins hold the team back in building the very thing he needs - a top shelf O-Line and defense?

Q12543 wrote:I think if you build a top 3 or 4 defense around Cousins, he could be a contending QB. History has shown plenty of middle-ling QBs win Superbowls because they had elite defenses. He's got some big play guys in Cook and Jefferson, so it's not all on him.

The question is does the cost of Cousins hold the team back in building the very thing he needs - a top shelf O-Line and defense?

I'm not totally anti Cousins but he is overpaid. He is currently the 7th highest paid QB in the league. Yes that is going to hamstring the rest of the roster to some extent.

I'm willing to place Cousins in that 10-12 range. Overpaid yes. Is he good? I suppose above avg. But I do think the running game and pass blocking would be better if we could use another 5-8 million from him somewhere else.

Ideally you get a rookie wage on a QB then in a few years you are ready to contend or even better he ends up being Wilson or Mahomes great and you can contend for a decade+.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think if you build a top 3 or 4 defense around Cousins, he could be a contending QB. History has shown plenty of middle-ling QBs win Superbowls because they had elite defenses. He's got some big play guys in Cook and Jefferson, so it's not all on him.

The question is does the cost of Cousins hold the team back in building the very thing he needs - a top shelf O-Line and defense?

I'm not totally anti Cousins but he is overpaid. He is currently the 7th highest paid QB in the league. Yes that is going to hamstring the rest of the roster to some extent.

I'm willing to place Cousins in that 10-12 range. Overpaid yes. Is he good? I suppose above avg. But I do think the running game and pass blocking would be better if we could use another 5-8 million from him somewhere else.

Ideally you get a rookie wage on a QB then in a few years you are ready to contend or even better he ends up being Wilson or Mahomes great and you can contend for a decade+.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

The problem is even if the Vikings trade Cousins he is still gonna cost them a bunch of money the next season or 2 depending on how the spread out that cap hit. The cap hits the next 2 years would absolutely keep the Vikings from building the roster it's like 35 and 45 million right? Keep in mind some of that is because the Vikings have payed him lower salary from the first year they signed him so it's not like Cousins is gonna he like pay me 17 million the next 2 years or something. I'm certainly not holding my breath on Cousins taking a worthwhile pay cut but he did take less money to come here over the Jets. Honestly that probably wasn't a hard decision. Still think about the teams that might pick him up if the Vikings let him go. Will that be a good franchise? Maybe.

Meanwhile Cousins could Take a pay cut stay here and throw the ball to Jefferson Thielen Irv Smith And have Cook a top RB taking pressure off him. Cousins is part of the problem but if the oline was average this could easily be a big time offense. Is Kubiak awesome as the offensive coordinator? Idk he could be part of the problem too but it's also possible that next year will be the 2nd year in his total offense and system plus the year with Stefanski and things could go very well. Cousins 45 million cap hit in 2022...that just begs for something to happen there whether a further extension or Cousins taking a lower salary and then looking like a good guy. I think Cousins is smart and he has clearly leveraged himself into plenty of money. He might be willing to give up some of that in the near future especially if he is truest a guy that believes in accountability because part of the reason the season is already over is because he played poorly.

Cleveland is playing better so thats a good sign anyways.