Minnesota Sports Forum

I'll keep this short. The Wolves were terrible today. And don't be deceived by the score. The Warriors clearly let up and essentially toyed with the Wolves in the second half. To paraphrase Q, if you don't believe there is something fundamentally wrong with this team beyond simply missing shots, then I don't know what to tell you.

Some key lowlights from tonight's game that were fairly typical for the Wolves so far this season:

1. Overall lack of intensity, energy and effort
2. Getting out-rebounded
3. Repeated failure to get loose balls or secure the ball the few times they got there first
4. Too much iso and not enough ball-movement or off-the-ball player movement offensively
5. Rudy's poor hands and inability to contribute offensively in any way other than screening

Speaking of Rudy - I took a co-worker to his first Wolves game today. He's from Toronto - a good basketball guy and Raptors fan. He noted that Rudy wasn't much of a force defensively inside. His words, "I'm surprised he doesn't dominate defensively." I counted at least three times when a Warriors player scored in the paint with Rudy right in front of him while Rudy didn't even extend his arms in the air. One of the worst moments was when Wiggins pulled down a rebound with Gobert and two other Wolves right next to him in the paint.

Today's game simply further confirmed the impression I've had from day one. There is something fundamentally wrong with this team. It's a lottery team with playoff talent - a team that is clearly less than the sum of its parts. Having said that, I'm not as impressed as some by the parts either. In any event, the Wolves have completed 25% of their season and it's not looking good. I'll emphasize that my view rests less on the team's record and far more on how the team is put together and how they've been playing through the first quarter of the season.

I should mention that there was big crowd in the arena. Unfortunately, the crowd didn't have enough opportunity to get loud. I'll note further that there were no boos, so Rudy's tender psyche should be fine. Something occurred to me while I was sitting there today and the huge crowd became quiet as the Wolves fell behind by 25 points in the 2nd quarter. What occurred to me is that booing would have been much better than the quiet that enveloped the arena (except for the many Warriors fans). Booing at least shows the fans care. Quiet crowds signal apathy. And apathy is one of the worst things for a professional sports franchise.

Sorry you had to sit through that one, Lip. And yeah, the game was over after the first quarter. The Warriors knew they were good enough to sit on a 20 point lead without expending too much energy.

I believe Jim Pete pointed out what your friend noticed...that Rudy didn't even have his arms up on a couple defensive plays. On the other hand, Kek has pointed out often in GDTs how easily our opponents score whenever Rudy goes to the bench. I suspect his effort may have slumped a little when he realized it was a blowout.

The Warriors are too good an offensive team to face without three of my favorite players on defense because of how hard they work...Jaden, JMac and Prince. This one didn't feel good to me as soon as I heard Jaden was out. I don't know if we can expect any of them back tomorrow either, so we have a good chance of dropping below .500. We need those three guys back soon.

FNG wrote:Sorry you had to sit through that one, Lip. And yeah, the game was over after the first quarter. The Warriors knew they were good enough to sit on a 20 point lead without expending too much energy.

I believe Jim Pete pointed out what your friend noticed...that Rudy didn't even have his arms up on a couple defensive plays. On the other hand, Kek has pointed out often in GDTs how easily our opponents score whenever Rudy goes to the bench. I suspect his effort may have slumped a little when he realized it was a blowout.

The Warriors are too good an offensive team to face without three of my favorite players on defense because of how hard they work...Jaden, JMac and Prince. This one didn't feel good to me as soon as I heard Jaden was out. I don't know if we can expect any of them back tomorrow either, so we have a good chance of dropping below .500. We need those three guys back soon.

As much as Iike Jaden, JMac and Prince, the result today would have been the same if all three had been available. If they were have made a material difference, then I'd say it's time to start exploring deals for our starters.

lipoli390 wrote:

FNG wrote:Sorry you had to sit through that one, Lip. And yeah, the game was over after the first quarter. The Warriors knew they were good enough to sit on a 20 point lead without expending too much energy.

I believe Jim Pete pointed out what your friend noticed...that Rudy didn't even have his arms up on a couple defensive plays. On the other hand, Kek has pointed out often in GDTs how easily our opponents score whenever Rudy goes to the bench. I suspect his effort may have slumped a little when he realized it was a blowout.

The Warriors are too good an offensive team to face without three of my favorite players on defense because of how hard they work...Jaden, JMac and Prince. This one didn't feel good to me as soon as I heard Jaden was out. I don't know if we can expect any of them back tomorrow either, so we have a good chance of dropping below .500. We need those three guys back soon.

As much as Iike Jaden, JMac and Prince, the result today would have been the same if all three had been available. If they were have made a material difference, then I'd say it's time to start exploring deals for our starters.

10 more games, and then no one is untouchable. They have to be able to pivot if necessary to avoid a complete disaster.

Thanks for the report Lip, sorry you had to witness it. I didn't even bother watching this one as I was convinced we had no chance.

https://twitter.com/devinthelab/status/1597001247436914689?s=42&t=JroBKuD4c-B-c5-iKKewWg

lipoli390 wrote:https://twitter.com/devinthelab/status/1597001247436914689?s=42&t=JroBKuD4c-B-c5-iKKewWg

Rivers in that clip... LOL

lipoli390 wrote:https://twitter.com/devinthelab/status/1597001247436914689?s=42&t=JroBKuD4c-B-c5-iKKewWg

Rudy has some rough clips no doubt but I will say for the most part Rudy has held up his end of the trade.

Leads nba in rebounding, #2 in the amongst center defending the rim only behind Turner, wolves are a 90th percentile team in defense (elite) when Rudy is on the floor and 32nd percentile defensive team with Rudy off the floor (below average), Rudy is also shooting a career high from the line on his career average on attempts.

At the end of the day this franchise goes how Ant goes and Ant has not improved and goes in and out of games, Kat/Jmac/dlo/Nowell/Forbes/rivers all shooting a career low from 3. Let that sink in 6 players with 4 or more years of NBA experience shooting a career low from 3. Wolves shooting 28% from 3 in losses this year what is absolutely pathetic, for reference wolves shot 33% last year from 3 in losses.

At the end of the day the wolves go how Ant goes and his lack of improvement this year so far is troubling.

I will still defend Rudy though because wolves have been an elite defensive team with Rudy on the floor statistically and have fallen off when he is off the floor. Also he leads the nba in rebounding. So for the love of god can someone else box out

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:https://twitter.com/devinthelab/status/1597001247436914689?s=42&t=JroBKuD4c-B-c5-iKKewWg

Rudy has some rough clips no doubt but I will say for the most part Rudy has held up his end of the trade.

Leads nba in rebounding, #2 in the amongst center defending the rim only behind Turner, wolves are a 90th percentile team in defense (elite) when Rudy is on the floor and 32nd percentile defensive team with Rudy off the floor (below average), Rudy is also shooting a career high from the line on his career average on attempts.

At the end of the day this franchise goes how Ant goes and Ant has not improved and goes in and out of games, Kat/Jmac/dlo/Nowell/Forbes/rivers all shooting a career low from 3. Let that sink in 6 players with 4 or more years of NBA experience shooting a career low from 3. Wolves shooting 28% from 3 in losses this year what is absolutely pathetic, for reference wolves shot 33% last year from 3 in losses.

At the end of the day the wolves go how Ant goes and his lack of improvement this year so far is troubling.

I will still defend Rudy though because wolves have been an elite defensive team with Rudy on the floor statistically and have fallen off when he is off the floor. Also he leads the nba in rebounding. So for the love of god can someone else box out

Good stuff Kek.

Yeah, I think folks are nit-picking the fact that we are trying to get the ball to Rudy and involve him more in the offense, which has had mixed success and looked clunky at times.

BTW, Ant's lack of improvement would have been just as troubling without the Rudy trade. Middling draft picks weren't going to save us then either. It's an unfortunate reality - not all players improve on a linear path and some stagnate after just a season or two. Let's hope with Ant that he's on the non-linear path...still so young.

Q-was-here wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:https://twitter.com/devinthelab/status/1597001247436914689?s=42&t=JroBKuD4c-B-c5-iKKewWg

Rudy has some rough clips no doubt but I will say for the most part Rudy has held up his end of the trade.

Leads nba in rebounding, #2 in the amongst center defending the rim only behind Turner, wolves are a 90th percentile team in defense (elite) when Rudy is on the floor and 32nd percentile defensive team with Rudy off the floor (below average), Rudy is also shooting a career high from the line on his career average on attempts.

At the end of the day this franchise goes how Ant goes and Ant has not improved and goes in and out of games, Kat/Jmac/dlo/Nowell/Forbes/rivers all shooting a career low from 3. Let that sink in 6 players with 4 or more years of NBA experience shooting a career low from 3. Wolves shooting 28% from 3 in losses this year what is absolutely pathetic, for reference wolves shot 33% last year from 3 in losses.

At the end of the day the wolves go how Ant goes and his lack of improvement this year so far is troubling.

I will still defend Rudy though because wolves have been an elite defensive team with Rudy on the floor statistically and have fallen off when he is off the floor. Also he leads the nba in rebounding. So for the love of god can someone else box out

Good stuff Kek.

Yeah, I think folks are nit-picking the fact that we are trying to get the ball to Rudy and involve him more in the offense, which has had mixed success and looked clunky at times.

BTW, Ant's lack of improvement would have been just as troubling without the Rudy trade. Middling draft picks weren't going to save us then either. It's an unfortunate reality - not all players improve on a linear path and some stagnate after just a season or two. Let's hope with Ant that he's on the non-linear path...still so young.

Rudy's defensive stats overstate his contribution to the Wolves in my view. Among other things, they fail to fully capture the negative impact he has on the team's offense and overall chemistry. Those stats also fail to reflect the negative impact of losing the players the Wolves traded to get him. Last night against a good team with its best players in the game provided a more realistic account of Gobert's defensive contribution. And regarding Gobert's rebounding, I'll mention again the fact that Rudy is pulling in rebounds that KAT used to get - exact same area of the floor. He's just a better at it than KAT, but the net impact on team rebounding isn't there and that's what matters. We're not getting the longer rebounds and loose balls - not getting the 8.5 rebounds we were getting from the mobile Vando flying around or the 4.5 rebounds we got from Beverley. It wasn't imperative to keep those two particular players, but those are the types of players we need around KAT.

More important, however, is the fact that we didn't and couldn't know how much the 20 year old Edwards would improve or whether he'll ever become a star. Same for McDaniels. As Draymond Green and others have said, Edwards becoming a star was the key to whether the Gobert deal would be a success. I think that was one key, but not the only one. The folly of the deal has never been about middling draft picks saving us. It's been about preserving assets and using them to take this team to the next level at a time when we know what level the team is currently at. Last year's late season success didn't provide a solid enough foundation for those judgments. Then it's about using those assets to add players who are optimal fits for the team we already have. I've always thought the Gobert deal was the wrong deal at the wrong time because we didn't know enough about the young team we had after last season and because Rudy's fit was at least questionable - not to mention the fact that Gobert is 10 years older than our most talented player.

Watching how the Wolves coaching staff is attempting to use Gobert offensively in ways he's never been used is telling. It suggests that the Wolves organization premised the trade in part of their mistaken belief that they could get materially more from Gobert than all those well-coached Jazz teams over the past 8 years. It was a classic example of smartest guy in the room syndrome. There's a reason no other team was willing to give up anything close to what the Wolves gave up for Rudy. If the Wolves put Rudy on the trade market right now I wonder what they'd get? Any realistic answer to that question provides the most telling insight into the folly of the trade.

Maybe the Wolves will turn things around in the next couple months. The team's talent is definitely better than the team's quality of play. That fact alone offers a glimmer of hope. But if it were up to me, I'd trade Rudy for as many pennies on the dollar as we can get - a good player or two and a couple future first-round picks if possible. I'd sign Garza and put a team on the floor that plays hard all the time - a team that's fun to watch. Right now, watching the Wolves play is the antithesis of fun.