Minnesota Sports Forum

With the win last night, we are at 15 wins in 30 games. That is tied the total 82 game season win totals of the 1991-92 Jimmy Rodgers Wolves and the 2009-10 K. Rambis Wolves.

As disappointed as some of us have been with way this season started, let's face it - We've come a long way baby.

We've been better than .500 two times in the last 17 seasons, yet we have people come on here and complain that Gobert is completely useless because he doesn't have a post game, never mind he anchored the defense for a franchise that consistently made the playoffs and has been 10X more successful than the Wolves!

We should be disappointed by this season, as .500 ball is not what any of us expected, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy individual games where we compete hard, entertain, and win!

Yeah, I agree with you guys. While I think this team has underperformed and will get better, I still like the trade and think we will see a very good team the second half of the season...provided we are healthy. I think some of the handwringing here is because we tend to glorify last years team. They were entertaining, but far from the '86 Bulls. I thought they played well in the playoffs, but late in the season I pointed out you could count on one hand the number of wins we had against teams with a winning record and not missing a key player or 3. I was pleased that we consistently won against injured or bottom feeding teams, but I didn't see a very high ceiling for that roster as constructed. I still think that adding gobert and slomo has dramatically raised our ceiling, and if healthy, we will go deep in the playoffs. Meanwhile with so many key players out, I'm going to be satisfied with any win we can get.

FNG wrote:Yeah, I agree with you guys. While I think this team has underperformed and will get better, I still like the trade and think we will see a very good team the second half of the season...provided we are healthy. I think some of the handwringing here is because we tend to glorify last years team. They were entertaining, but far from the '86 Bulls. I thought they played well in the playoffs, but late in the season I pointed out you could count on one hand the number of wins we had against teams with a winning record and not missing a key player or 3. I was pleased that we consistently won against injured or bottom feeding teams, but I didn't see a very high ceiling for that roster as constructed. I still think that adding gobert and slomo has dramatically raised our ceiling, and if healthy, we will go deep in the playoffs. Meanwhile with so many key players out, I'm going to be satisfied with any win we can get.

I think a deep playoff run is out of the cards for this year's squad. Yes, we got better this offseason. So did a lot of other teams, either through player growth or just being more healthy. That being said, I look forward to seeing green shoots of growth and perhaps learning some things that will help TC make well thought-out moves this offseason to put us in a better position for next season.

FNG wrote:Yeah, I agree with you guys. While I think this team has underperformed and will get better, I still like the trade and think we will see a very good team the second half of the season...provided we are healthy. I think some of the handwringing here is because we tend to glorify last years team. They were entertaining, but far from the '86 Bulls. I thought they played well in the playoffs, but late in the season I pointed out you could count on one hand the number of wins we had against teams with a winning record and not missing a key player or 3. I was pleased that we consistently won against injured or bottom feeding teams, but I didn't see a very high ceiling for that roster as constructed. I still think that adding gobert and slomo has dramatically raised our ceiling, and if healthy, we will go deep in the playoffs. Meanwhile with so many key players out, I'm going to be satisfied with any win we can get.

I think there's more of a tendency to glorify Gobert (or at least gloss over the problems with Gobert) than to glorify last season's team. Without analyzing every single game, it's impossible to credibly conclude that the Wolves winning percentage last season was distorted by luck. And even meticulously analyzing every game can't really give much insight. An 82 game season is plenty long to normalize for individual game fortuities. Fact is, the Wolves finished 10 games over .500 and made a terrific showing in the first playoff round against the second seed in the West. Yes, the Wolves beat GS on Jan. 16 when Curry was out for example. But Klay, Wiggins, Poole, Looney and Otter Porter Jr. were all playing in that game AND the Wolves beat GS by 20 points. The Wolves beat the Nuggets by 15 points on Feb. 1 when the only guy out for Denver was Murray, who was out the whole season. They beat the Warriors again by 15 when Curry played. They beat the Grizzlies by 5 when no one significant was out for Memphis. They beat OKC on Jan. 7 by 31 points when SGA, Giddey, Dort, and Robinson-Earl all played. They beat the Clippers without Paul George but note they beat them by 16 points.

No one is glorifying last season's team. It's simply a fact that the Wolves finished with 46 wins, including a number of convincing wins against really good teams, even though the Wolves were very young and got off to a rough start. They also really fun to watch. The Wolves might still end up having a great second half of the season with Gobert returning and eventually KAT coming back as well. But based on what we've seen so far, it's impossible to point to anything that suggests adding Gobert was a good thing, much less at the price they paid to get him. All that could change. But right now, this team is 2 games under .500 when Gobert plays. With Gobert, the team's offensive ranking has fallen from #7 to #16 without any improvement in the team's defensive ranking. In fact, the Wolves defensive ranking has fallen slightly from #13 last season to #15 so far this season. And Rudy has played in all but four of the Wolves 30 games.

Based on the objective data, I'd much prefer last season's team over the team we've seen so far this season and I'm not even talking about Walker Kessler or the four future unprotected picks the Wolves gave up. I'll add that, subjectively, this team is much more fun to watch without Gobert and KAT on the floor slowing things down. Of those two, I'll take the 27 year old who was with last season's team when it won 46 games. What the Jazz did with Rudy isn't a very solid basis for extrapolation because that was an entirely different set of players under a different head coach together for an extended time when Rudy was in his prime. I'm not suggesting Rudy has suddenly started a precipitous age-related decline. However, looking back at other bigs through League history it's fair to say that Rudy won't get better and will likely start to decline over the next few years. And if he doesn't decline, we're still left with the evidence that this team, in its first 26 games with Rudy, is under .500, far worse offensively than it was last season and not better defensively.

I'll take last season over what we've seen so far this season any day of the week. If that's glorifying last season's team, then glory hallelujah.

This year after 30 games, we are 15-15.
Last year after 30 games we were 15-15.

Last year they seemed to hit their stride after a slow start. Hopefully this year will be the same. IMO, this year's team has more talent/better players. Rudy has been an All Star the last three years. He's certainly talented. Does he effect some of the other guys with his style of play? Yep. They need to figure that out. It would be hard to believe they didn't have discussions on that before pulling the trigger on the trade. I'm as frustrated as the rest of you that it hasn't been better up to this point. But I don't think it's nearly as doom and gloom as some are making it seem.

Carlos Danger wrote:This year after 30 games, we are 15-15.
Last year after 30 games we were 15-15.

Last year they seemed to hit their stride after a slow start. Hopefully this year will be the same. IMO, this year's team has more talent/better players. Rudy has been an All Star the last three years. He's certainly talented. Does he effect some of the other guys with his style of play? Yep. They need to figure that out. It would be hard to believe they didn't have discussions on that before pulling the trigger on the trade. I'm as frustrated as the rest of you that it hasn't been better up to this point. But I don't think it's nearly as doom and gloom as some are making it seem.

Good stuff. Last year the Wolves were playing their awesome pesky easy to cheer for defense etc but the offense was like 23rd in the league. We know how that ended up playing out and I could see the Wolves hitting their stride on both ends of the court this year.

Carlos Danger wrote:This year after 30 games, we are 15-15.
Last year after 30 games we were 15-15.

Last year they seemed to hit their stride after a slow start. Hopefully this year will be the same. IMO, this year's team has more talent/better players. Rudy has been an All Star the last three years. He's certainly talented. Does he effect some of the other guys with his style of play? Yep. They need to figure that out. It would be hard to believe they didn't have discussions on that before pulling the trigger on the trade. I'm as frustrated as the rest of you that it hasn't been better up to this point. But I don't think it's nearly as doom and gloom as some are making it seem.

Yes, we have the same record as last season after 30 games. But last season the pieces always seemed to fit; it was just a matter of a young team gelling after the prior season when they finished in the lottery. This season, the pieces just don't see to fit well while the overall talent has kept the team around the .500 mark. Maybe the pieces will start to look like they fit as these guys get more comfortable with one another over the next 30 games. We'll see.

The uncomfortable truth, however, is that this team wasn't supposed to start out with the same record as last season's team. This Wolves team is coming off a 46-win season. In contrast, last season's team had previously finished with only 23 wins the season before. Moreover, there's the elephant in the room - i.e., this past summer the Wolves traded 4 future first-round picks, one of this year's two first round picks and three of last season's rotation players to get a guy they expected to catapult the franchise into title contention. So we can take some solace in the fact that our record is the same as last year's team at this time. But I don't take much solace under the circumstances.

I've noted this in other threads, but it's fitting for this one as well. Perspective...

After a loss to the Phoenix Suns on January 28th last season, the Minnesota Timberwolves had a 24-25 record through 49 games, or roughly just over half of the season. They would go 22-11 from that point forward to finish the regular season at 46-36 before largely outperforming the second-seed Memphis Grizzlies in the first round.

Most of us remember last year's Wolves team fondly because of how they finished -- not how they started. They were disappointing out of the gate, bounced back, fell into another slump, took a while figuring rotations and lineup combinations, and then when they clicked they were a lovable, chaotic group... but it took time.

It's clearly going to take time with this year's group, but the overall talent level is much higher. They also have pieces that are probably better-suited for grueling playoff series. It's just a matter of can the coaching staff use these parts effectively and can the players perform at their expected levels. I remain optimistic/confident that they will, but I don't know exactly when everything will click. And that's assuming they stay healthy enough...

Camden wrote:I've noted this in other threads, but it's fitting for this one as well. Perspective...

After a loss to the Phoenix Suns on January 28th last season, the Minnesota Timberwolves had a 24-25 record through 49 games, or roughly just over half of the season. They would go 22-11 from that point forward to finish the regular season at 46-36 before largely outperforming the second-seed Memphis Grizzlies in the first round.

Most of us remember last year's Wolves team fondly because of how they finished -- not how they started. They were disappointing out of the gate, bounced back, fell into another slump, took a while figuring rotations and lineup combinations, and then when they clicked they were a lovable, chaotic group... but it took time.

It's clearly going to take time with this year's group, but the overall talent level is much higher. They also have pieces that are probably better-suited for grueling playoff series. It's just a matter of can the coaching staff use these parts effectively and can the players perform at their expected levels. I remain optimistic/confident that they will, but I don't know exactly when everything will click. And that's assuming they stay healthy enough...

Last season is a good reference point. A bunch of bench guys started to cook when we were decimated by Covid at around a similar point in the season. Then as the starters got cleared to play, they kept up the momentum. Suddenly guys like Prince, Nowell, and Beasley were making their shots, which was a huge boost.

(of course, history may not repeat itself!)