Minnesota Sports Forum

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34032714/sources-orlando-magic-executive-matt-lloyd-minnesota-timberwolves-senior-vp-basketball-operations

Great Hire. So long Gupta and DLO.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Great Hire. So long Gupta and DLO.

If you believe Jon K, Gupta is staying around. Gupta and Lloyd have different skill sets. How long does Gupta stay before he takes a lead job somewhere else? Idk but I think he is in a good spot right now.

What's interesting is now we have someone on board from the Magic a possible trade partner.

This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

Here's excerpt form an article in the Orlando Sentinel from 2017:

The Orlando Magic passed them and other prospects up by trading away the No. 25 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft on Thursday night.

That move, as well as the decision to trade the 35th pick, left many Magic fans scratching their heads.

The Magic desperately need talent, right? So why did the Magic give up a late first-round pick and an early second-round pick in a deep draft?

"We felt that at a certain point that the draft flattened out, and once we got past that point, we had three more picks, and we didn't want to bring four rookies in," said Jeff Weltman, the Magic's new president of basketball operations.

"So what we did is we tried to identify kids that we thought could possibly be there later that we liked as much [as a] higher [pick]. And could we defer those assets [and] move them along to maybe turn them into future pieces and still come up with something that we liked?"

The Magic used the 33rd pick to select Kansas State wing Wesley Iwundu.

So Weltman essentially thinks Iwundu is comparable to whomever the Magic could have selected at No. 25.

This is a case where Weltman is counting on his own eye and on the evaluations of the Magic's scouting staff of assistant GM Matt Lloyd, director of college scouting Prosper Karangwa and scout Anthony Parker.

What role, if any, did Lloyd play in this deal? This is the sort of stupidity we used to see in the Wolves front offices year after year for a long time.

Check out what pick Lloyd got Jimmy Butler with while with the Bulls.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Check out what pick Lloyd got Jimmy Butler with while with the Bulls.

Yes, he was director of scouting for the Bulls in 2011 when they drafted Butler. That was certainly impressive, although he wasn't a front office executive at the time. But let's give him full credit for that.

He started as the Bulls college scouting director in 2007when the Bulls drafted Joakim Noah at #9. I liked that pick for the Bulls. In 2008 the Bulls drafted Derrick Rose at #1, which is what any team would have done. In 2009, the Bulls drafted James Johnson at #16 and Taj Gibson at #26. In 2010, the Bulls drafted Kevin Seraphin for Washington. Not sure who or what they got in return for him. But Seraphin wasn't the the Bulls' choice. In 2011, the Bulls drafted Butler at #30. In his last year with the Bulls, they drafted Marquis Teague at #29.

So yes, he's been in the mix as a scout or front office executive when some nice picks were made - Noah at #9, Gibson at #26, Butler at #30, and Oladipo at #2. I'll give him Aaron Gordon at #4 too. But the totality of his 15-year career just isn't very impressive to say the least.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Check out what pick Lloyd got Jimmy Butler with while with the Bulls.

Yes, he was director of scouting for the Bulls in 2011 when they drafted Butler. That was certainly impressive, although he wasn't a front office executive at the time. But let's give him full credit for that.

He started as the Bulls college scouting director in 2007when the Bulls drafted Joakim Noah at #9. I liked that pick for the Bulls. In 2008 the Bulls drafted Derrick Rose at #1, which is what any team would have done. In 2009, the Bulls drafted James Johnson at #16 and Taj Gibson at #26. In 2010, the Bulls drafted Kevin Seraphin for Washington. Not sure who or what they got in return for him. But Seraphin wasn't the the Bulls' choice. In 2011, the Bulls drafted Butler at #30. In his last year with the Bulls, they drafted Marquis Teague at #29.

So yes, he's been in the mix as a scout or front office executive when some nice picks were made - Noah at #9, Gibson at #26, Butler at #30, and Oladipo at #2. I'll give him Aaron Gordon at #4 too. But the totality of his 15-year career just isn't very impressive to say the least.

He was largely credited with the Butler pick

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Check out what pick Lloyd got Jimmy Butler with while with the Bulls.

Yes, he was director of scouting for the Bulls in 2011 when they drafted Butler. That was certainly impressive, although he wasn't a front office executive at the time. But let's give him full credit for that.

He started as the Bulls college scouting director in 2007when the Bulls drafted Joakim Noah at #9. I liked that pick for the Bulls. In 2008 the Bulls drafted Derrick Rose at #1, which is what any team would have done. In 2009, the Bulls drafted James Johnson at #16 and Taj Gibson at #26. In 2010, the Bulls drafted Kevin Seraphin for Washington. Not sure who or what they got in return for him. But Seraphin wasn't the the Bulls' choice. In 2011, the Bulls drafted Butler at #30. In his last year with the Bulls, they drafted Marquis Teague at #29.

So yes, he's been in the mix as a scout or front office executive when some nice picks were made - Noah at #9, Gibson at #26, Butler at #30, and Oladipo at #2. I'll give him Aaron Gordon at #4 too. But the totality of his 15-year career just isn't very impressive to say the least.

He was largely credited with the Butler pick

That's good. But again, looking at the totality of his career he doesn't come off as particularly impressive. It's hard for me to be impressed by hiring a guy who was the #2 basketball executive at one of the worst organizations for 10 years. I watched a bunch of video interviews of him and he didn't impress me there either.

I really wanted to get excited about him and was hoping I'd find something about him to excite me. His bosses drafting Jimmy Butler on his recommendation 11 years ago doesn't do it for me.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Check out what pick Lloyd got Jimmy Butler with while with the Bulls.

Yes, he was director of scouting for the Bulls in 2011 when they drafted Butler. That was certainly impressive, although he wasn't a front office executive at the time. But let's give him full credit for that.

He started as the Bulls college scouting director in 2007when the Bulls drafted Joakim Noah at #9. I liked that pick for the Bulls. In 2008 the Bulls drafted Derrick Rose at #1, which is what any team would have done. In 2009, the Bulls drafted James Johnson at #16 and Taj Gibson at #26. In 2010, the Bulls drafted Kevin Seraphin for Washington. Not sure who or what they got in return for him. But Seraphin wasn't the the Bulls' choice. In 2011, the Bulls drafted Butler at #30. In his last year with the Bulls, they drafted Marquis Teague at #29.

So yes, he's been in the mix as a scout or front office executive when some nice picks were made - Noah at #9, Gibson at #26, Butler at #30, and Oladipo at #2. I'll give him Aaron Gordon at #4 too. But the totality of his 15-year career just isn't very impressive to say the least.

He was largely credited with the Butler pick

That's good. But again, looking at the totality of his career he doesn't come off as particularly impressive. It's hard for me to be impressed by hiring a guy who was the #2 basketball executive at one of the worst organizations for 10 years. I watched a bunch of video interviews of him and he didn't impress me there either.

I really wanted to get excited about him and was hoping I'd find something about him to excite me. His bosses drafting Jimmy Butler on his recommendation 11 years ago doesn't do it for me.

He's somewhat old school. And for whatever reason is highly respected in league circles. I like the move but can respect what you are saying as well.