Minnesota Sports Forum

I thought I'd start a thread devoted entirely to discussion a possible Wolves trade for Collins.

As we all know, it's been reported that the Wolves "are dying to land Collins." It's hard to know how much it will take to get him. But one thing for sure is that he'll expect a max contract starting next season. He apparently turned down a $90M offer from Atlanta. He'll be restricted free agent after this season so he'll be in a position to force the Wolves to match a max offer if the Wolves don't simply offer it in the first place. Apparently, he's also unhappy in Atlanta because he's not getting enough touches. If that's not a red flag I don't know what is. Would he get the touches he wants playing with KAT, DLO and Edwards? Really? So it's not just the max salary demand; there's a real question about whether he's a good fit here. If he wants touches, this doesn't seem like the right place for him to land. Here's an excerpt from an article on Collins:

Sources say he [collins] left a deal worth more than $90 million on the table

That's a large extension to reject. Collins' four-year rookie-scale deal was worth just $11,059,862. More than $90 million would've been life-changing money.

But it wasn't the max Collins sought - and might get in restricted free agency next summer.
He's a talented offensive player - explosive near the basket with increasingly dependable 3-point shooting. His defense needs work, but he has potential as a rim protector. And he's just 23.

Atlanta has loaded up on bigs. The Hawks traded for Clint Capela, drafted Onyeka Okongwu No. 6 and signed Danilo Gallinari (who should primarily play power forward). Atlanta clearly still values Collins, but is also more-prepared to move on without him.

The Hawks have until the trade deadline to determine how much they'd pay Collins and how likely he is to get a larger offer sheet. If they deem him too likely to leave unmatched, they should trade him first.

That's only one of the ways this situation naturally creates tension. Collins must have a big year to get the contract he wants. That looms over his feud with Trae Young about Atlanta's offensive direction. Collins wants touches.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that trading for Collins would be a bad move. This team has no business taking on a third max player unless that third max player is truly an elite franchise changer, which Collins is not. I'd probably be willing to give up DLO for Collins in a sign-and-trade as one overpaid max player for another. But otherwise, I'm convinced we need to let this season play out with the current roster under Finch, find out our draft situation and explore various moves in the offseason. This franchise needs to be smart and prudent for once and not it's usual desperate and dumb. Trading significant assets for a max salary player who isn't worthy of a max contract and who wants a prominent offensive role he's not likely to get would be desperate and dumb in my view.

lipoli390 wrote:I thought I'd start a thread devoted entirely to discussion a possible Wolves trade for Collins.

As we all know, it's been reported that the Wolves "are dying to land Collins." It's hard to know how much it will take to get him. But one thing for sure is that he'll expect a max contract starting next season. He apparently turned down a $90M offer from Atlanta. He'll be restricted free agent after this season so he'll be in a position to force the Wolves to match a max offer if the Wolves don't simply offer it in the first place. Apparently, he's also unhappy in Atlanta because he's not getting enough touches. If that's not a red flag I don't know what is. Would he get the touches he wants playing with KAT, DLO and Edwards? Really? So it's not just the max salary demand; there's a real question about whether he's a good fit here. If he wants touches, this doesn't seem like the right place for him to land. Here's an excerpt from an article on Collins:

Sources say he [collins] left a deal worth more than $90 million on the table

That's a large extension to reject. Collins' four-year rookie-scale deal was worth just $11,059,862. More than $90 million would've been life-changing money.

But it wasn't the max Collins sought - and might get in restricted free agency next summer.
He's a talented offensive player - explosive near the basket with increasingly dependable 3-point shooting. His defense needs work, but he has potential as a rim protector. And he's just 23.

Atlanta has loaded up on bigs. The Hawks traded for Clint Capela, drafted Onyeka Okongwu No. 6 and signed Danilo Gallinari (who should primarily play power forward). Atlanta clearly still values Collins, but is also more-prepared to move on without him.

The Hawks have until the trade deadline to determine how much they'd pay Collins and how likely he is to get a larger offer sheet. If they deem him too likely to leave unmatched, they should trade him first.

That's only one of the ways this situation naturally creates tension. Collins must have a big year to get the contract he wants. That looms over his feud with Trae Young about Atlanta's offensive direction. Collins wants touches.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that trading for Collins would be a bad move. This team has no business taking on a third max player unless that third max player is truly an elite franchise changer, which Collins is not. I'd probably be willing to give up DLO for Collins in a sign-and-trade as one overpaid max player for another. But otherwise, I'm convinced we need to let this season play out with the current roster under Finch, find out our draft situation and explore various moves in the offseason. This franchise needs to be smart and prudent for once and not it's usual desperate and dumb. Trading significant assets for a max salary player who isn't worthy of a max contract and who wants a prominent offensive role he's not likely to get would be desperate and dumb in my view.

IMO Towns is supposed to be the franchise changer, piecing in high quality ( expensive too) talent around him is what must be done. The Wolves will never build a Jersey type roster. But if you can land Collins and get some luck in this year's draft you might really have some thing with a couple guys on rookie contracts. What better options are out there for this franchise? Too be honest it shouldn't take much to change this franchise considering it's futility .

This post probably belongs in this thread so I moved it over.

We're back again with another round of: which team says no? Is this a trade that you would even want the Wolves to make if it was available? Remaining contract values after this season are included in parentheses for the players below.

Wolves:
- John Collins (RFA*)
- Tony Snell (UFA)

Hawks:
- Aaron Gordon (1-year, $16.4-million)
- Josh Okogie (1-year, $4.1-million)
- 2021 second-round pick (via Orlando)

Magic:
- Ricky Rubio (1-year, $17.8-million)
- 2024 lottery-protected first-round pick (via Minnesota)


* ESPN's Brian Windhorst said the Hawks offered Collins "in excess of $90 million" on an extension that was turned down because he "was seeking something at or near the max and he stuck to his guns."

That is an excellent summary, Lip, and as much as I would love to see Collins next to KAT, I agree that I don't want to add a third max contract to the mix... I just don't think that KAT/DLO/Collins is a winning max trio. That's why my current thinking is the same as yours...a sign and trade DLO/Collins deal is our best option. I've developed why this deal might work in another thread, but to summarize:

The Wolves may like the deal because:
-they really don't have a true starting PF
-the deal helps balance a roster with a glut of PGs/wings
-Collins is a true 2-way PF with incredible numbers in his past 65 games
-it alleviates Finch's potential re-entry problem if the team is playing well when DLO/Beas are ready

Atlanta may like the deal because:
-they have to move Collins or lose him in free agency
-DLO is a proven scorer and facilitator...averaging more than 22 points and 6 assists per game his past three seasons
-Trae Young is an elite facilitator, and might give DLO a lot of good looks
-DLO is young, the second pick in the draft 5 years ago, and an All-Star with the Nets. Hawks fans won't like losing Collins, but DLO might have enough cachet to soften the blow.

Do I think this deal will happen? Nope. But it's the only deal I would consider for Collins for the same reason Lip stated. Absent a deal, I'm fine with Vando/McDaniels/Juancho the rest of the season at PF.

The very fact that Ricky Rubio is being mentioned in multiple rumors that involve the Los Angeles Clippers and Orlando Magic should be all you need to know in order to put these D'Angelo Russell trade ideas to bed. It's clear who Gersson Rosas and the Wolves value more -- for good reasons -- and Rubio is the odd man out should they look to declutter the point guard position. That's not to say that Rubio would have to be involved in any trade with the Atlanta Hawks, but rather D-Lo isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Rubio does not have a future here. Minnesota is operating as if Russell is one of their building blocks -- not one of their trade assets.

How many likely scenarios are out there for the Wolves? The very top talent goes to 5-8 team's in the NBA these days. If Towns is considered to be a top 15 talent we should be thankful we have him becuz the next level of talent the Wolves are likely to get here lie in the top 30 and beyond. Realistically right? Even before teams were stacking the box the wolves have no history of getting talent here other than when KG was good enough to get Sprewell and Cassell.

PorkChop wrote:How many likely scenarios are out there for the Wolves? The very top talent goes to 5-8 team's in the NBA these days. If Towns is considered to be a top 15 talent we should be thankful we have him becuz the next level of talent the Wolves are likely to get here lie in the top 30 and beyond. Realistically right? Even before teams were stacking the box the wolves have no history of getting talent here other than when KG was good enough to get Sprewell and Cassell.

As I've always said, a mid-size cold-weather market like the Wolves won't get the talent to contend unless it gets most of it through the draft. Overpaying in desperate trades for very good but not great players with max salaries won't work. If Rosas hit pay dirt on Edwards and McDaniels, which could definitely be the case, then this thing could come together.

This franchise will now have to be patient enough to see it through. KAT will have his breaking point, but he's been clear he wants to stay here, so there's time. The franchise lost patience with Billups and because of that they ultimately had to settle for Hail Mary moves to get Spree and Cassell, But of course, that was short-lived as was the Butler Hail Mary. Staying patient with Billups would have created a sustainable contender build around KG and Chauncey.

Edwards has a competitive drive, skill set and trajectory that makes it clear he's not another Wiggins. Whether he becomes a star remains to be seen, but the ingredients are definitively there. McDaniels, Nowell, Naz and Vando are nice young building blocks as well. If DLO is as good as Rosas and Cam think he is, then this team shouldn't be far from contending with a top notch head coach and some roster tweaks. Beasley is a very good still young player who, if nothing else, has significant trade value to facilitate significant roster tweaks without taking on another max contract player who's not a max-caliber talent. We might have the right head coach in Finch and the offseason will provide the opportunity to make the necessary tweaks. We might even have a top three draft pick to work with in the offseason.

So I remain a no on a Collins deal unless it's a DLO/Collins sign-and-trade. But I agree with Cam that the chances of that happening are slim to none and slim's out of town.

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:How many likely scenarios are out there for the Wolves? The very top talent goes to 5-8 team's in the NBA these days. If Towns is considered to be a top 15 talent we should be thankful we have him becuz the next level of talent the Wolves are likely to get here lie in the top 30 and beyond. Realistically right? Even before teams were stacking the box the wolves have no history of getting talent here other than when KG was good enough to get Sprewell and Cassell.

As I've always said, a mid-size cold-weather market like the Wolves won't get the talent to contend unless it gets most of it through the draft. Overpaying in desperate trades for very good but not great players with max salaries won't work. If Rosas hit pay dirt on Edwards and McDaniels, which could definitely be the case, then this thing could come together.

This franchise will now have to be patient enough to see it through. KAT will have his breaking point, but he's been clear he wants to stay here, so there's time. The franchise lost patience with Billups and because of that they ultimately had to settle for Hail Mary moves to get Spree and Cassell, But of course, that was short-lived as was the Butler Hail Mary. Staying patient with Billups would have created a sustainable contender build around KG and Chauncey.

Edwards has a competitive drive, skill set and trajectory that makes it clear he's not another Wiggins. Whether he becomes a star remains to be seen, but the ingredients are definitively there. McDaniels, Nowell, Naz and Vando are nice young building blocks as well. If DLO is as good as Rosas and Cam think he is, then this team shouldn't be far from contending with a top notch head coach and some roster tweaks. Beasley is a very good still young player who, if nothing else, has significant trade value to facilitate significant roster tweaks without taking on another max contract player who's not a max-caliber talent. We might have the right head coach in Finch and the offseason will provide the opportunity to make the necessary tweaks. We might even have a top three draft pick to work with in the offseason.

So I remain a no on a Collins deal unless it's a DLO/Collins sign-and-trade. But I agree with Cam that the chances of that happening are slim to none and slim's out of town.

By contending do you mean for a playoff spot or something more?

Cam - The deal you've presented strikes me as a reasonable deal for the Wolves from an asset perspective. By that I mean, Collins the player is worth to the Wolves than the Wolves outgoing assets, Okogie, Ricky and a future lottery-protected first. My question is whether you would do this deal given the financial implications relative to how much better the team gets and the fact that Collins is pissed at the Hawks over a lack of touches. If he's unhappy over a lack of touches in Atlanta, how do you think he'll fair here playing with KAT, DLO, Beasley and Edwards? That just seems like a disaster in the making.

Lip, is that you?? Your the guy that made me a John Collins fan after years of reminding us that you would have taken him over Patton if younhad thibs job back then :)

That said, you certainly made good points here lip. But Im still on board of trading for Collins. Rubio and beasley are moveabke contracts. Edwards will be due his extention at a time dlo and Towns deal are expiring so there are ways to manage the cap in the future even after adding Collins.