Minnesota Sports Forum

Cam posted what looked like a well-informed report of some offers the Sixers received for Simmons over 4 weeks ago. According to that report, the Kings offered Haliburton and Barnes + a future pick, the Raptors offered VanVleet and Anunoby + a protected pick, the Pacers offered Brogdon + something and the Wolves offered Beasley and a bunch of future picks. Or something like that; I'm too lazy to look back at the report. In any event, Morey rejected those offers and has, instead, been consistently asking for the moon, which has irritated other NBA front office execs and caused at least one GM to hang up the phone. Apparently, Morey was asking Portland for Lillard and the Wizards for Beal, but both teams made it clear neither star was available for Simmons. Morey also apparently offer Simmons to Toronto for Lowry, VanVleet, Anuoby and the 4th pick in this year's draft. Apparently, the Raptors front office gave that offer about one second of thought before not so politely telling Morey he needed a reality check. Again, all of this happened over 4 weeks ago. Now consider the following reports over the past four weeks, including some really recent ones:

NBA Central: "I talked to Rich Paul, and Rich Paul was the one who told me, 'We want out. We want out. And we'll go to whatever degree we have to go to in order to get out. We want to be anywhere but in Philadelphia.'" - @RealJayWilliams (Via ESPN | h/t Bleacher Report) pic.twitter.com/8TzNQQi1LB 2 days ago - via Twitter TheNBACentral

The core leaders on the 76ers -- such as Joel Embiid, Tobias Harris and Matisse Thybulle -- and most of the team were set to take a jet to see Simmons before being turned away, sources said. Multiple sources said Simmons didn't want his teammates, some of whom he considers friends, to make the Philadelphia-to-Los Angeles commute out of courtesy because he won't change his mind on wanting a trade. 2 days ago - via Shams Charania and The Athletic Staff @ The Athletic

According to a source with knowledge of their situation, the Kings spoke to the Sixers weeks ago and made it clear that both De'Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton would not be included in a possible Simmons deal. That stance, the source said, has not and will not change and the internal expectation is that the core of their roster will remain the same heading into training camp later this month. 4 weeks ago - via Sam Amick @ The Athletic

Sam Amick: As I wrote here, though, the fact that the Kings are unwilling to include De'Aaron Fox and/or Tyrese Haliburton in a possible Simmons deal is, for now at least, a deal-breaker. Heck, they're even trying to hold onto Harrison Barnes, from what I'm told. 4 weeks ago - via Sam Amick, David Aldridge, Jon Krawczynski, Derek Bodner @ The Athletic

Prior to the NBA Draft, the 76ers had reportedly asked for OG Anunoby, Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, and the 4th overall pick, according to Matt Moore of the Action Network. That deal was, of course, turned down by the Raptors and it's unclear what kind of package Toronto would be willing to part with for Simmons. The most obvious name in trade talks would be Pascal Siakam, however, Toronto has repeatedly made it clear both publicly and privately to Siakam that they have not been shopping the 27-year-old former all-star in trade negotiations. - USA Today

Marla Ridenour: #Cavs GM Koby Altman said he wants Collin Sexton here long term. Won't negotiate in public so didn't go too deep. Neither he nor Bickerstaff believes it will affect Sexton's performance 5 hours ago - via Twitter MRidenourABJ

Casey Holdahl: "We will never be receptive to moving Damian Lillard." -- Neil Olshey
Source: Twitter @CHold

There can be no doubt that Simmons will not show up and another game for the Sixers. And as he becomes increasingly public and emphatic about his intent to hold out, offers seemingly available at one time 4 or more weeks ago, seem to be evaporating as the season approaches. The Kings have repeatedly said that neither Fox nor Haliburton is on the table for Simmons. Now the latest report out of Cleveland indicates that Kobe Altman wants to keep Sexton long term. Meanwhile, Olshey has recently reiterated that Lillard is in Portland to stay - making it clear that Morey is taking a huge gamble if he thinks he can wait and make a run at Lillard later in the season or next off-season. Is Indiana still willing to part with Brogdon and, if so, will Morey's ego allow him to take the offer and run with it?

It would appear that the Wolves remain the most aggressive suitor for Simmons. My caution to Gupta is to avoid bidding against himself because it's crystal clear that Morey has absolutely no leverage and teams around the League, while admittedly posturing to some extent, are obviously not drooling over the prospect of adding Ben Simmons. They all see the flaws in his game along with apparently failure to work on those flaws or accept coaching. There are certainly at last a few teams, including the Wolves, who would like to get Simmons and they're willing to give up value to get him. But the value they're willing to give up reflects Morey's lack of leverage resulting from his grossly overplayed hand.

I think Indiana is still willing to swap Brogdon. I also believe that the Kings migh eventually make Haliburton or Hield available, but not both. I think the Cavs might make Sexton available in spite of the recent comment from their PBO. I definitely think the Raptors will continue to make VanVleet available and the that Blazers will continue to make McCollum available. And I don't think Morey can expect to get multiple future 1st-round picks with any of those players. In any event, I don't think Sixers' ownership and Joel Embiid will allow Morey to accept a package centered on multiple future draft picks in the hope that the Sixers MIGHT someday turn those picks into Lillard, Beal or a comparable star. The Sixers simply aren't in a place where they can gamble on getting with future draft picks at some indefinite time down the road what they can't get today for Simmons.

Any leverage Morey might have had is gone has been frittered away through the workings of Morey's hubris. If the Wolves want Simmons, I think they'll need to give up D-Angelo Russell. But I don't think they should give up much more than that - not Beasley, not McDaniels, not multiple lightly-protected 1st-round picks and certainly not KAT or Edwards. I have no idea whether Gupta is willing to give up DLO in a Simmons deal. If he's not, then I don't see Simmons ending up in Minnesota. And even if he is, I still wouldn't be a lot on Simmons ending up here.

I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

KG4Ever wrote:I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

I agree that these two deals are better than anything Minnesota has to offer. You say those deals are on the table. Are they really or is it just spit-balling?

What makes you think Portland would even offer C.J. McCollum at this point? I don't see it. The trade for Larry Nance Jr. all but secured that Neil Olshey is running it back with the current group. Not to mention, the Blazers and Sixers front offices have had some serious discord months ago during negotiations. Talks are probably dead on that front.

Camden wrote:What makes you think Portland would even offer C.J. McCollum at this point? I don't see it. The trade for Larry Nance Jr. all but secured that Neil Olshey is running it back with the current group. Not to mention, the Blazers and Sixers front offices have had some serious discord months ago during negotiations. Talks are probably dead on that front.

The fact that they apparently offered McCollum previously suggests to me that they would still be willing to give him up for Simmons. However, I no longer think they'll offer the previously reported "McCollum + anyone else other than Lillard." Portland's defense was really bad last season. Lillard is their key offensive guy and perimeter shooter. I can see Portland considering Simmons an upgrade over and better fit than McCollum. Simmons is also 5 years younger than CJ. I don't see the discord having any impact on what Portland would be willing to give up for Simmons. Olshey will do any deal for Simmons that he believes will improve their team.

I still think Morey can get a really good lead guard like VanVleet, Brogdon, Sexton or McCollum for Simmons. As I see it, what's changed in the last 4 weeks is that Morey can no longer get much more than one of those guards in a package for Ben. Players like Anuoby, or even our own Jaden McDaniels, who were gettable 4 weeks ago are probably permanently off the table. I think ownership and Embiid will pressure Morey to settle for one of those guards without a lot of additional frills rather than accept a package of role players + multiple future picks that might, perhaps, maybe, someday be converted into an elite player like Lillard, Beal or even Fox. I think the Wolves are still in the running with a package that includes either DLO (Beasley and either Prince or Beverley) plus future picks and possibly Nowell.

I'm speculating on the high side now. I'm not sure Morey can even get what I've suggested is still on the table. He and the entire Sixers organization have really botched this.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:What makes you think Portland would even offer C.J. McCollum at this point? I don't see it. The trade for Larry Nance Jr. all but secured that Neil Olshey is running it back with the current group. Not to mention, the Blazers and Sixers front offices have had some serious discord months ago during negotiations. Talks are probably dead on that front.

The fact that they apparently offered McCollum previously suggests to me that they would still be willing to give him up for Simmons. However, I no longer think they'll offer the previously reported "McCollum + anyone else other than Lillard." Portland's defense was really bad last season. Lillard is their key offensive guy and perimeter shooter. I can see Portland considering Simmons an upgrade over and better fit than McCollum. Simmons is also 5 years younger than CJ. I don't see the discord having any impact on what Portland would be willing to give up for Simmons. Olshey will do any deal for Simmons that he believes will improve their team.

I still think Morey can get a really good lead guard like VanVleet, Brogdon, Sexton or McCollum for Simmons. As I see it, what's changed in the last 4 weeks is that Morey can no longer get much more than one of those guards in a package for Ben. Players like Anuoby, or even our own Jaden McDaniels, who were gettable 4 weeks ago are probably permanently off the table. I think ownership and Embiid will pressure Morey to settle for one of those guards without a lot of additional frills rather than accept a package of role players + multiple future picks that might, perhaps, maybe, someday be converted into an elite player like Lillard, Beal or even Fox. I think the Wolves are still in the running with a package that includes either DLO (Beasley and either Prince or Beverley) plus future picks and possibly Nowell.

I'm speculating on the high side now. I'm not sure Morey can even get what I've suggested is still on the table. He and the entire Sixers organization have really botched this.

I think Covington and CJ made a lot of sense but also the problem would be a bit of the same if we traded Russell and Beasley. Suddenly there would be a lot less shooting and we have Towns. The Blazers have Nurkic who's game of being in the paint a lot (that's part of the problem with Embiid) doesn't exactly fit with Simmons* and like Can said they already added Nance. I think in addition to CJ maybe they would throw in a younger player but would the Sixers be into that? No idea.

I think it was the latest article in the Athletic that said one of the reasons Simmons wants out is because his game doesn't fit with Embiid. That does make some sense. So...what teams fit with Simmons in that regard? Hmm...let's see...

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

I agree that these two deals are better than anything Minnesota has to offer. You say those deals are on the table. Are they really or is it just spit-balling?

Why would I need to spitball? There has been a lot of talk about both deals and I couched my response to say "or likely available."

KG4Ever wrote:I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

I'm convinced that McCollum and VanVleet are still on the table, but I'm not convinced that Covington and Anuoby are available as additions. They might be, but I'm not sure.

I agree that Morey's not in a panic mode right now. But he's not immune to pressure from ownership and the team's top players, especially Embiid. Pressure on Morey to deal Simmons will continue to build from within as Simmons stays home while the Sixers complete training camp and begin the season. I don't envision Morey even being in a panic mode, but he has to be feeling an increasing sense of urgency. A sure sign that Morey has already developed a sense of urgency is the organization's pathetic and fruitless effort to convince Simmons to come back. Morey will still get a decent return as several teams will probably bid against one another as we edge closer to the start of the season. And I expect the Wolves will be among the bidders. Nevertheless, the bidding will probably be modest at this point. Morey's problem is that the closer we get to the start of the season, the more committed teams become to their current rosters. The Sixers are in a pretty deep hole that they dug themselves into. I'm enjoying it.

lipoli390 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

I'm convinced that McCollum and VanVleet are still on the table, but I'm not convinced that Covington and Anuoby are available as additions. They might be, but I'm not sure.

I agree that Morey's not in a panic mode right now. But he's not immune to pressure from ownership and the team's top players, especially Embiid. Pressure on Morey to deal Simmons will continue to build from within as Simmons stays home while the Sixers complete training camp and begin the season. I don't envision Morey even being in a panic mode, but he has to be feeling an increasing sense of urgency. A sure sign that Morey has already developed a sense of urgency is the organization's pathetic and fruitless effort to convince Simmons to come back. Morey will still get a decent return as several teams will probably bid against one another as we edge closer to the start of the season. And I expect the Wolves will be among the bidders. Nevertheless, the bidding will probably be modest at this point. Morey's problem is that the closer we get to the start of the season, the more committed teams become to their current rosters. The Sixers are in a pretty deep hole that they dug themselves into. I'm enjoying it.

Like you said right now teams are probably liking their rosters. One team that Cam has mentioned is Portland. Their issue is staying healthy. That's not going to be easy to do but right now I think their roster is actually better than last year.

Media day is making us feel all warm and fuzzy about the Wolves. Other teams probably fee a bit the same way. I won't be shocked if Morey tries like hell to wait out till some team realizes their team actually isn't as good as they thought it was and is ready to make a change. It's gonna get pretty messy if that happens though. Of course and we have seen this happen a couple times already...what if the Sixers are that team that struggles early and then is somewhat forced to make a move then also ends up having to acclimate a couple new players...that could mean some losses early on and then what if they have a key injury? Morey is playing with fire.

Also does Doc Rivers want Simmons back? Yeah maybe depending on what offers Morey is telling him they have out there. Lol Ultimately I think Doc knows Simmons ain't coming back but he is trying to defend himself and doing a somewhat poor job of it. What the hell did he thing the media was going to do yesterday give out hugs and throw him softball questions? Doc has been around the game for years he should have been more ready.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I think the best offers on the table or likely available are the ones centered around McCollum and Covington and VanVleet and Anunoby. I don't think Morey is in panic mode or he would have made a deal by now. I think Morey sees these offers as a floor to what he can get for Ben and he is willing to gamble that a better player becomes available once the season is a few months underway. The one thing that could push Morey to make a deal is if Philly gets off to a real bad start sans Simmons or the hold out optics get so bad that he is pushed to make a deal.

I'm convinced that McCollum and VanVleet are still on the table, but I'm not convinced that Covington and Anuoby are available as additions. They might be, but I'm not sure.

I agree that Morey's not in a panic mode right now. But he's not immune to pressure from ownership and the team's top players, especially Embiid. Pressure on Morey to deal Simmons will continue to build from within as Simmons stays home while the Sixers complete training camp and begin the season. I don't envision Morey even being in a panic mode, but he has to be feeling an increasing sense of urgency. A sure sign that Morey has already developed a sense of urgency is the organization's pathetic and fruitless effort to convince Simmons to come back. Morey will still get a decent return as several teams will probably bid against one another as we edge closer to the start of the season. And I expect the Wolves will be among the bidders. Nevertheless, the bidding will probably be modest at this point. Morey's problem is that the closer we get to the start of the season, the more committed teams become to their current rosters. The Sixers are in a pretty deep hole that they dug themselves into. I'm enjoying it.

Like you said right now teams are probably liking their rosters. One team that Cam has mentioned is Portland. Their issue is staying healthy. That's not going to be easy to do but right now I think their roster is actually better than last year.

Media day is making us feel all warm and fuzzy about the Wolves. Other teams probably fee a bit the same way. I won't be shocked if Morey tries like hell to wait out till some team realizes their team actually isn't as good as they thought it was and is ready to make a change. It's gonna get pretty messy if that happens though. Of course and we have seen this happen a couple times already...what if the Sixers are that team that struggles early and then is somewhat forced to make a move then also ends up having to acclimate a couple new players...that could mean some losses early on and then what if they have a key injury? Morey is playing with fire.

Also does Doc Rivers want Simmons back? Yeah maybe depending on what offers Morey is telling him they have out there. Lol Ultimately I think Doc knows Simmons ain't coming back but he is trying to defend himself and doing a somewhat poor job of it. What the hell did he thing the media was going to do yesterday give out hugs and throw him softball questions? Doc has been around the game for years he should have been more ready.

Great points, Monster.

I think you're on to something in speculating that Morey might play the waiting game into the season in the hope some other team gets desperate to make a change. I think that will be his strong inclination. However, as you correctly noted, Morey is playing with fire if he goes that route. Morey is somewhat desperate himself in a sense because he bears a lot of responsibility for the Sixers' current predicament. Depending on what happens, Morey's job could be on the line.

I don't think Doc wants Simmons back. I think he's toeing the party line by saying things aimed at rehabbing Simmons trade value. But his flippant comment in that MSNBC interview tells us his heart isn't in it. What Doc really thinks was revealed in his unscripted response to that question about whether they can win a championship with Simmons. Doc held himself back by saying "I don't know." But he was clearly holding himself back from saying what he really thought, which was no. I really doubt Doc has changed his mind. And I'm sure it's more than just how Simmons performed in the playoffs. I suspect Doc was frustrated with Simmons throughout the season. And I suspect Doc's frustration related as much or more to things behind the scenes that we don't know - perhaps related to what we've read about Simmons not being willing to be coached.