Minnesota Sports Forum

I'm becoming more convinced with each passing moment, that Rosas will do a sign-and-trade deal for Markkanen. We just have to hope that Rosas doesn't get fleeced by Chicago or Lauri.

Lauri clearly wants a fresh start and the Bulls clearly don't see a fit for him in Chicago going forward. Three teams have reportedly been interested in acquiring him: Minnesota, the Spurs and OKC. The Spurs have apparently decided they don't want to pay Lauri what he wants. That leaves MN and OKC. So I think MN has a great opportunity and nice leverage to get him. The Wolves could commit to slotting him in as a starter next to KAT and I think he'd find that appealing. He might also like the appeal of playing for a team with the bevy of young talent we have in KAT, DLO, Ant and McDaniels. I think we would stand out as a better option for him than OKC. I'm warming up to the idea of trading for Lauri.

Assume Markkanen would agree to a deal with the Wolves for $13M per year for 2 years guaranteed with a player option on the 3rd year. Now, the question: Which of the following would you be prefer giving up to get him?

I'd prefer sending out Juan Hernangomez in any trade the Wolves make. Pairing him with any of the reserve wings would be fine with me, but I voted Jarrett Culver because the time to move on is now and his salary is bloated. It's just not working out for either side in Minnesota. The Wolves would also open up another valuable roster spot in any two-for-one trade, which plays into my reasoning.

Edit: I'd also rather hold on to Taurean Prince if possible because I think his value could rise a bit this season. When healthy, he's more reminiscent of the player he was in Atlanta than he was in Brooklyn/Cleveland. He's had some lower body issues the past couple seasons. Utilize him as the first wing off the bench and he can be solid. With all of that said, I wouldn't lose out on Markkanen to keep Prince.

I would have no problem with any of those scenarios. But keeping Prince and getting him via the other options would be ideal.

Why would the bulls take back significantly worse players when they just spent big money in win now moves?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the bulls take back significantly worse players when they just spent big money in win now moves?

The reason why the Bulls would consider a sign-and-trade is that they'd receive draft compensation in return for a player they don't envision being part of their core moving forward. Chicago emptied some of the cupboard in order to acquire Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan in their respective deals. They can't trade a first-round pick until 2025 or 2026 at the earliest because of the Stepien Rule and their multi-year protections. Some of their second-round picks in the near future are capable of being swapped by other teams as well. In general, it's just not a bad idea to acquire picks for an outgoing player. It's just a matter of would they make that move now, near the deadline, or possibly next summer where they have no leverage.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the bulls take back significantly worse players when they just spent big money in win now moves?

The reason why the Bulls would consider a sign-and-trade is that they'd receive draft compensation in return for a player they don't envision being part of their core moving forward. Chicago emptied some of the cupboard in order to acquire Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan in their respective deals. They can't trade a first-round pick until 2025 or 2026 at the earliest because of the Stepien Rule and their multi-year protections. Some of their second-round picks in the near future are capable of being swapped by other teams as well. In general, it's just not a bad idea to acquire picks for an outgoing player. It's just a matter of would they make that move now, near the deadline, or possibly next summer where they have no leverage.

Yes. I get that part. You laid it out well. And it makes sense.

But obviously they're seeking some draft assets AND somebody who'd actually make their rotation. The Wolves players mentioned in most of the trades are bad NBA players. Prince is the one who's been slightly above average at times, so maybe something there. And if that's not out there... and the market is dwindling... maybe Chicago is just waiting to resign Markannen on the one-year qualifying. That would be a big win for Chicago.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the bulls take back significantly worse players when they just spent big money in win now moves?

The reason why the Bulls would consider a sign-and-trade is that they'd receive draft compensation in return for a player they don't envision being part of their core moving forward. Chicago emptied some of the cupboard in order to acquire Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan in their respective deals. They can't trade a first-round pick until 2025 or 2026 at the earliest because of the Stepien Rule and their multi-year protections. Some of their second-round picks in the near future are capable of being swapped by other teams as well. In general, it's just not a bad idea to acquire picks for an outgoing player. It's just a matter of would they make that move now, near the deadline, or possibly next summer where they have no leverage.

Yes. I get that part. You laid it out well. And it makes sense.

But obviously they're seeking some draft assets AND somebody who'd actually make their rotation. The Wolves players mentioned in most of the trades are bad NBA players. Prince is the one who's been slightly above average at times, so maybe something there. And if that's not out there... and the market is dwindling... maybe Chicago is just waiting to resign Markannen on the one-year qualifying. That would be a big win for Chicago.

The Bulls aren't in a position to expect much in return for a guy they don't want, who doesn't want to be there and will be gone in a year without compensation if they keep him. I'm sure the Bulls want a rotation guy in return, but that's not a reasonable expectation in this situation.

The issue for the Wolves has little to do with the assets they would need to give up to get Markkanen. The issue is how much the Wolves are willing to pay him. As an alternative to doing a sign-and-trade deal for Markkanen this summer, the Bulls can keep Markkanen as a bench guy for one more season at slightly over $9M and then watch him leave as an unrestricted FA next summer with nothing in return. Otherwise, the Bulls can get a future 2nd round pick and a couple of NBA bodies with expiring contracts who might be able to help off the bench and who won't be chaffing at their role. If Culver's in the package it would give the Bulls the #6 pick in the NBA draft just two years ago. If Layman is included, it would give them a decent wing on a cheap contract. If Juancho is included, it would give them.... Well, I'll stop there. :)

Bottom line. If Markkanen's agent and the Wolves reach agreement on a contract, the Bulls front office execs aren't going to piss off Markkanen and his agent by killing the deal over which players they get in return, so long as those players don't handicap them financially down the road.

So many of the deals we throw out here involve packaging guys like Culver, Juancho and Layman...I've been guilty of this myself. We should probably keep this in mind though. As eager as we are to rid ourselves of these three, other teams are likely even more eager to not bring them in.

Edited to add the obvious "not" in the last sentence

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the bulls take back significantly worse players when they just spent big money in win now moves?

The reason why the Bulls would consider a sign-and-trade is that they'd receive draft compensation in return for a player they don't envision being part of their core moving forward. Chicago emptied some of the cupboard in order to acquire Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan in their respective deals. They can't trade a first-round pick until 2025 or 2026 at the earliest because of the Stepien Rule and their multi-year protections. Some of their second-round picks in the near future are capable of being swapped by other teams as well. In general, it's just not a bad idea to acquire picks for an outgoing player. It's just a matter of would they make that move now, near the deadline, or possibly next summer where they have no leverage.

Yes. I get that part. You laid it out well. And it makes sense.

But obviously they're seeking some draft assets AND somebody who'd actually make their rotation. The Wolves players mentioned in most of the trades are bad NBA players. Prince is the one who's been slightly above average at times, so maybe something there. And if that's not out there... and the market is dwindling... maybe Chicago is just waiting to resign Markannen on the one-year qualifying. That would be a big win for Chicago.

The Bulls aren't in a position to expect much in return for a guy they don't want, who doesn't want to be there and will be gone in a year without compensation if they keep him. I'm sure the Bulls want a rotation guy in return, but that's not a reasonable expectation in this situation.

The issue for the Wolves has little to do with the assets they would need to give up to get Markkanen. The issue is how much the Wolves are willing to pay him. As an alternative to doing a sign-and-trade deal for Markkanen this summer, the Bulls can keep Markkanen as a bench guy for one more season at slightly over $9M and then watch him leave as an unrestricted FA next summer with nothing in return. Otherwise, the Bulls can get a future 2nd round pick and a couple of NBA bodies with expiring contracts who might be able to help off the bench and who won't be chaffing at their role. If Culver's in the package it would give the Bulls the #6 pick in the NBA draft just two years ago. If Layman is included, it would give them a decent wing on a cheap contract. If Juancho is included, it would give them.... Well, I'll stop there. :)

Bottom line. If Markkanen's agent and the Wolves reach agreement on a contract, the Bulls front office execs aren't going to piss off Markkanen and his agent by killing the deal over which players they get in return, so long as those players don't handicap them financially down the road.

Chicago just signed two guys at $51M combined this season to make the playoffs... THIS season. And allegedly, to convince LaVine he should stick around on a winning team. Although it's conceivable that DeRozan is actually there to effectively replace LaVine. Can Chicago do a sign-and-trade with LaVine during the season?

In any event, Culver or Juancho or Okogie or Layman do nothing to help Chicago achieve their goal(s). They're all below average NBA players who struggled to stay in the rotation for one of the worst teams in the league. Chicago couldn't care less about the Wolves' reasoning and probably have little desire to do the Wolves any favors.


[Note: And yet again... Culver's position in the draft 2, 5 or 9 years ago is irrelevant. Maybe Chicago had him #47 on their board for all we know. All it does is jack up how much he's paid for playing worse than most 2-way players. Some top picks who start poorly and level off in the first two years even get worse and worse... see Kevin Knox for Frankie Nkitiaiakki from the Knicks. Without a single potentially elite asset (shooting, athleticism, length, et al) isn't it far more likely Culver fits in that group at this point?]

Abe - It's not about the Bulls doing a favor for the Wolves. It's about the fact that they have no bargaining power because it's totally up to Markkanen. He'll decide who he want to play for - probably based mainly on how much he can make. Then the Bulls will have to decide whether to let him go in a sign-and-trade or keep him in spite of his desire to leave and end up getting nothing for him when he leaves as an UFA next summer.

Also, while the Bulls execs have no interest in appeasing Wolves management, they will definitely want to avoid pissing off Markkanen's agent. All NBA execs are careful to cultivate favor with agents. It's part of the business of basketball. It's a minor factor, but it's definitely a factor.

Bottom line is that Markkanen will end up where he wants to go and the Bulls can't expect anything more than a nominal return, which is better than keeping a guy they don't want and getting no return next year. If the Bulls decide the hold on to him in the hope they can trade him later this year, in spite of what Markkanen and his agent might want, then so be it. It's not like Marrkanen is going to be a franchise-turner for the Wolves. But I think the real issue now is whether the Wolves and Markkanen can come to agreement on a contract. If it's true that Markkanen is seeking $20M per year, then let him stay in Chicago and be miserable for a year.