Minnesota Sports Forum

As we all know, the Wolves are capped out and have already used their Room Exception to sign Crawford. So Thibs is now trying to fill the remaining 3 roster spots he has open using the veteran minimum exception, which allows contracts from about $1 million per year for a rookie to around $2.5 million the first year for a 10-year vet.

So where does that leave the Wolves when attempting to sign 3 free agents. Every other team in the League, including obvious title contenders like Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland and Boston, can use the vet minimum. We have to compete with those teams for the remaining quality free agents on the market. But even worse is the fact that a number of teams have significant cap room, cap exceptions or both to offer significantly more than the Wolves can offer. Here's a list of those teams and what they have:

Hawks: $6.1 million cap space plus the full $4.3M room exception
Nets: $5.1M cap space plus the full room exception
Hornets: $4.89M remaining MLE plus $3.3 biannual exception
Bulls: $6.9M cap space + full room exception
Cavs: $2.5M remaining MLE
Mavs: $7.3M cap space + full room exception
Nuggets: $2.7M cap space + full room exception
Pacers: $5.6M cap space + full room exception
Lakers: Full room exception
Heat: Full room exception
Bucks: $7.6M remaining MLE + $3.3 biannual exception
Pelicans: $2.2M remaining room exception
Magic: Full room exception
Sixers: Full room exception
Suns: $6.4M cap space + full room exception
Blazers: $5.2M remaining MLE
Kings: $4.25 cap space + full room exception
Raptors: $3.3M Biannual exception

That's 18 teams that can offer a lot more than the Wolves for remaining free agents. Even for vets who want to sign with a winning team, there are at least 6 teams with legitimate playoff chances - Cavs, Raptors, Bucks, Blazers, Nuggets and Hornets. Some might also include the Pelicans in that group.

So I see no chance of signing Bazz. I see him ending up with the Nets where he can get significant playing time and the chance to prove himself on a one-year deal. Nor do I see much chance of signing the remaining good 3-point shooters except for possibly Dunleavy given his connection to Thibs. But I don't even see us signing Dunleavy. The other 3-point shooters - Aaron Brooks, Anthony Morrow or even Deron Williams will likely get better offers than what the Wolves can give. So we'll probably be stuck with CJ Watson.

lipoli390 wrote:As we all know, the Wolves are capped out and have already used their Room Exception to sign Crawford. So Thibs is now trying to fill the remaining 3 roster spots he has open using the veteran minimum exception, which allows contracts from about $1 million per year for a rookie to around $2.5 million the first year for a 10-year vet.

So where does that leave the Wolves when attempting to sign 3 free agents. Every other team in the League, including obvious title contenders like Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland and Boston, can use the vet minimum. We have to compete with those teams for the remaining quality free agents on the market. But even worse is the fact that a number of teams have significant cap room, cap exceptions or both to offer significantly more than the Wolves can offer. Here's a list of those teams and what they have:

Hawks: $6.1 million cap space plus the full $4.3M room exception
Nets: $5.1M cap space plus the full room exception
Hornets: $4.89M remaining MLE plus $3.3 biannual exception
Bulls: $6.9M cap space + full room exception
Cavs: $2.5M remaining MLE
Mavs: $7.3M cap space + full room exception
Nuggets: $2.7M cap space + full room exception
Pacers: $5.6M cap space + full room exception
Lakers: Full room exception
Heat: Full room exception
Bucks: $7.6M remaining MLE + $3.3 biannual exception
Pelicans: $2.2M remaining room exception
Magic: Full room exception
Sixers: Full room exception
Suns: $6.4M cap space + full room exception
Blazers: $5.2M remaining MLE
Kings: $4.25 cap space + full room exception
Raptors: $3.3M Biannual exception

That's 18 teams that can offer a lot more than the Wolves for remaining free agents. Even for vets who want to sign with a winning team, there are at least 6 teams with legitimate playoff chances - Cavs, Raptors, Bucks, Blazers, Nuggets and Hornets. Some might also include the Pelicans in that group.

So I see no chance of signing Bazz. I see him ending up with the Nets where he can get significant playing time and the chance to prove himself on a one-year deal. Nor do I see much chance of signing the remaining good 3-point shooters except for possibly Dunleavy given his connection to Thibs. But I don't even see us signing Dunleavy. The other 3-point shooters - Aaron Brooks, Anthony Morrow or even Deron Williams will likely get better offers than what the Wolves can give. So we'll probably be stuck with CJ Watson.

Thanks for this breakdown Lip. Some things to keep in mind that should raise some optimism.

1. There are some of those teams that have full rosters. The Kings are a team that's full players including 2 way contracts.

2. Some teams that have a roster spot or may improve a spot is unlikely to spend much. For example the Raptors are unlikely to spend more than the vet min on anyone because they are trying to stay out of the lux tax. The Bucks are a team over the lux tax it they are probably going to try and get below that before the end of the season so they won't be looking to spend more than the vet min either.

So it may be worthwhile to go through all those teams and look at their roster situations and lux tax considerations and see what you come up with.

It seems Lip can really find the worst side out of a fruitful off-season, when experts are predicting we improve our record by 19 games next year.

wolvesfaned wrote:It seems Lip can really find the worst side out of a fruitful off-season, when experts are predicting we improve our record by 19 games next year.

To be fair we are wolves fans, also experts were predicting 50 wins last year and we were the most disappointing team based off vegas win projections last year.

I see us getting Tony Allen for sure and either Rush or Dunleavy

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:As we all know, the Wolves are capped out and have already used their Room Exception to sign Crawford. So Thibs is now trying to fill the remaining 3 roster spots he has open using the veteran minimum exception, which allows contracts from about $1 million per year for a rookie to around $2.5 million the first year for a 10-year vet.

So where does that leave the Wolves when attempting to sign 3 free agents. Every other team in the League, including obvious title contenders like Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland and Boston, can use the vet minimum. We have to compete with those teams for the remaining quality free agents on the market. But even worse is the fact that a number of teams have significant cap room, cap exceptions or both to offer significantly more than the Wolves can offer. Here's a list of those teams and what they have:

Hawks: $6.1 million cap space plus the full $4.3M room exception
Nets: $5.1M cap space plus the full room exception
Hornets: $4.89M remaining MLE plus $3.3 biannual exception
Bulls: $6.9M cap space + full room exception
Cavs: $2.5M remaining MLE
Mavs: $7.3M cap space + full room exception
Nuggets: $2.7M cap space + full room exception
Pacers: $5.6M cap space + full room exception
Lakers: Full room exception
Heat: Full room exception
Bucks: $7.6M remaining MLE + $3.3 biannual exception
Pelicans: $2.2M remaining room exception
Magic: Full room exception
Sixers: Full room exception
Suns: $6.4M cap space + full room exception
Blazers: $5.2M remaining MLE
Kings: $4.25 cap space + full room exception
Raptors: $3.3M Biannual exception

That's 18 teams that can offer a lot more than the Wolves for remaining free agents. Even for vets who want to sign with a winning team, there are at least 6 teams with legitimate playoff chances - Cavs, Raptors, Bucks, Blazers, Nuggets and Hornets. Some might also include the Pelicans in that group.

So I see no chance of signing Bazz. I see him ending up with the Nets where he can get significant playing time and the chance to prove himself on a one-year deal. Nor do I see much chance of signing the remaining good 3-point shooters except for possibly Dunleavy given his connection to Thibs. But I don't even see us signing Dunleavy. The other 3-point shooters - Aaron Brooks, Anthony Morrow or even Deron Williams will likely get better offers than what the Wolves can give. So we'll probably be stuck with CJ Watson.

Thanks for this breakdown Lip. Some things to keep in mind that should raise some optimism.

1. There are some of those teams that have full rosters. The Kings are a team that's full players including 2 way contracts.

2. Some teams that have a roster spot or may improve a spot is unlikely to spend much. For example the Raptors are unlikely to spend more than the vet min on anyone because they are trying to stay out of the lux tax. The Bucks are a team over the lux tax it they are probably going to try and get below that before the end of the season so they won't be looking to spend more than the vet min either.

So it may be worthwhile to go through all those teams and look at their roster situations and lux tax considerations and see what you come up with.

Good points, Monster. The luxury tax situation should stop a few of these teams from using the cap exceptions they have.

BloopOracle wrote:I see us getting Tony Allen for sure and either Rush or Dunleavy

It seems weird that Rush seems to have almost no news about him and it seems the Wolves have little interest...or maybe he has no interest in the Wolves. I'm starting to wonder if there is something going on with him. Maybe he has a lingering injury like Gerald Henderson did or something. I mean the way the market is he is a vet min guy but it seems something is off.

Would anyone have interesting in Derrick williams for the vet min? He would bring alot of what Bazz did only less efficiently but he has more size. It looks like he has played mostly PF the last few years but I don't see any reason why he couldn't play some minutes at SF and he would be a big SF. For the vet min I'd be interested even though i think he is a guy you can't really count on what you get from him. I wonder if he is a guy that ends up playing overseas somewhere this year if he wants to be more of a star. It seems like when I have seen him (not just against the Wolves) he plays with some energy. He just turned 26.

BloopOracle wrote:I see us getting Tony Allen for sure and either Rush or Dunleavy

I wouldn't mind re-signing Rush. I think he was forced to do too much on a bad team last season. But on what should be a much better team this season, I can see Rush shining as a 3-point shooter off the bench.

I wouldn't sign Tony Allen or Dunleavy. Allen turns 36 this season and I think Dunleavy is already 36 or 37. I looked at the stats of a bunch of former NBA players earlier today. I noticed that most drop off precipitously from one year to the next at some point once they've hit age 35. There's usually a decline that begins around age 32. Then a huge drop happens when they turn 35, 36 or 37. Paul Pierce, for example, saw his stats fall through the floor at age 36. Most players retire by age 37.

We already have the 37-year old Crawford as a key bench player and only wing off the bench. With 3 roster spots left, I don't want to fill them with two more players north of age 35.

Monster -- At a high level, signing Derrick Williams for the vet minimum would make sense. But then I think about what a goof he is. I remember a Wolves official telling me that Derrick loved the NBA lifestyle but not the game. I just can't stand the thought of seeing the return of one of the founding members of my "all underachiever team." I don't think I could stand watching Derrick Williams or Wes Johnson sitting in front of me on the Wolves bench. Even worse if I had to watch them actually play again in a Wolves uniform.

lipoli390 wrote:Monster -- At a high level, signing Derrick Williams for the vet minimum would make sense. But then I think about what a goof he is. I remember a Wolves official telling me that Derrick loved the NBA lifestyle but not the game. I just can't stand the thought of seeing the return of one of the founding members of my "all underachiever team." I don't think I could stand watching Derrick Williams or Wes Johnson sitting in front of me on the Wolves bench. Even worse if I had to watch them actually play again in a Wolves uniform.

I know but sometimes the right situation presents itself. For a couple years Wes was actually a decent bench player especially wehn he was just earning the vet min. He seemed to be really bad last year. Beasley is a good too but the Bucks eaked some good minutes out of him last year. The Cavs ended up with a pretty important player when they added JR Smith. Some of the guys that are available that may be worthwhile are kinda goofy. Monte Ellis fits that and remember he will be suspended for drug use for a few games. I'm not really advocating for Williams too much because I might rather have some random other dude that had to bust his butt to just make it to the NBA but yeah. There has been basically even less talk about Derrick Williams than Bazz. There are probably a few reasons even though he is still somewhat young and has some talent especially phyically. What separates him from a D-league guy pretty than experience?

What about Hollis Thompson? He was a guy that could at least hit 3's for the Sixers.

Also do you bank on some younger player being more worthwhile or do you bank on an older player not aging crazy bad? Do you sign a guy that's likely just what he is or do you maybe even sign a young guy that may have some potential and hasn't proved he sucks yet? I wouldn't count out a guy that's old because he is old. If he is really done at some point you can let him go and sign someone else. Again whoever we get is gonna have some flaws and in general that's ok. For all his flaws and being old Matt Barnes is probably one of the best players left out there (he always somehow seems to rise to the top) and he isn't talked about much and there are legit reasons for that.