What would your offseason moves have been?

[Shumway]

OK, we've had plenty of discussion on the offseason moves. Here's the spot to put your flag in the ground and summarise the moves you would have done.

The almost universal consensus is that the Taj contract is too rich and there's a lot of commentary that the additional $5mill that we're paying Teague over Rubio has really limited our flexibility.

But I'm not sure exactly what I would have done to improve the team with the additional cap space. I probably would have paid a few more mid-level contracts and added guys like Thabo and / or Afflalo who we're now considering (hoping for) with minimum contracts.

For me, my offseason would probably have been as follows:

1) Make the Butler trade. Lip has made a great suggestion that we should also have pushed for the second round pick in exchange for cash to be included, and I do like that idea. But I would have been very happy to accept the deal. If our draft position had stayed at 6, I squirm about giving up the potential to draft Isaac, but proceed with the deal.

2) Draft OG Anunoby.

3) Retain Ricky Rubio. Since the trade and Teague deal, I probably do rate it as a slight forward step - if only based on the more conventional style of play from Teague adding the ability to penetrate from the PG position. But I'm a fan rather than a professional and I probably let my feelings get in the way before making the deal. I probably rely on hope that Rubio continues his positive second half of last season even though my head says he will probably revert to his mean performances.

Then with Free Agency, I'm not sure the exact numbers, but I think we'd have around $20mill now without the Teague deal. I would certainly have tested the waters on Millsap, Ibaka, but would not have committed the money to them. Would have liked Iguodala, but it seems that he just wanted to set the market and then return to GS.

So now I'm left a little bit stuck. I've got room to use, but no ideal targets to go and get. I'm probably interested in Gibson, but baulk at the price initially and wait it out. Maybe I end up getting Gibson for around $20mill on a 2 year deal instead of $28mill if I'm more patient.

I would be really interested in acquiring Crowder from Boston in their need to free up cap space for Hayward, but I don't know what's realistic there.

I'd certainly be interested in signing Taj (at a slightly lower rate), Patrick Patterson, CJ Miles, Thabo, Afflalo. So perhaps I get three of those guys. But even then I'm not sure that actually fits. The Patterson contract seems so good that it feels like there's something else going on there (a relationship with someone at OKC that he was prepared to take less to go there). I probably still end up with Taj and if he does take a few million less, then I have capacity to make a higher offer to Thabo or Afflalo so that I'm not hoping they agree to the Vet minimum or perhaps I do get CJ Miles.

So really, my offseason compared to Thibs - draft OG instead of Patton. Keep Rubio over Teague (and I'm not sure that's an objective improvement or just my bias for Rubio). Probably get Thabo or Afflalo or CJ Miles instead of Crawford. Then fill out the bench with vet minimum contacts.

With the significance of the Butler deal, I'm really only flirting around the edges with my other moves.

[Monster]

OK, we've had plenty of discussion on the offseason moves. Here's the spot to put your flag in the ground and summarise the moves you would have done.

The almost universal consensus is that the Taj contract is too rich and there's a lot of commentary that the additional $5mill that we're paying Teague over Rubio has really limited our flexibility.

But I'm not sure exactly what I would have done to improve the team with the additional cap space. I probably would have paid a few more mid-level contracts and added guys like Thabo and / or Afflalo who we're now considering (hoping for) with minimum contracts.

For me, my offseason would probably have been as follows:

1) Make the Butler trade. Lip has made a great suggestion that we should also have pushed for the second round pick in exchange for cash to be included, and I do like that idea. But I would have been very happy to accept the deal. If our draft position had stayed at 6, I squirm about giving up the potential to draft Isaac, but proceed with the deal.

2) Draft OG Anunoby.

3) Retain Ricky Rubio. Since the trade and Teague deal, I probably do rate it as a slight forward step - if only based on the more conventional style of play from Teague adding the ability to penetrate from the PG position. But I'm a fan rather than a professional and I probably let my feelings get in the way before making the deal. I probably rely on hope that Rubio continues his positive second half of last season even though my head says he will probably revert to his mean performances.

Then with Free Agency, I'm not sure the exact numbers, but I think we'd have around $20mill now without the Teague deal. I would certainly have tested the waters on Millsap, Ibaka, but would not have committed the money to them. Would have liked Iguodala, but it seems that he just wanted to set the market and then return to GS.

So now I'm left a little bit stuck. I've got room to use, but no ideal targets to go and get. I'm probably interested in Gibson, but baulk at the price initially and wait it out. Maybe I end up getting Gibson for around $20mill on a 2 year deal instead of $28mill if I'm more patient.

I would be really interested in acquiring Crowder from Boston in their need to free up cap space for Hayward, but I don't know what's realistic there.

I'd certainly be interested in signing Taj (at a slightly lower rate), Patrick Patterson, CJ Miles, Thabo, Afflalo. So perhaps I get three of those guys. But even then I'm not sure that actually fits. The Patterson contract seems so good that it feels like there's something else going on there (a relationship with someone at OKC that he was prepared to take less to go there). I probably still end up with Taj and if he does take a few million less, then I have capacity to make a higher offer to Thabo or Afflalo so that I'm not hoping they agree to the Vet minimum or perhaps I do get CJ Miles.

So really, my offseason compared to Thibs - draft OG instead of Patton. Keep Rubio over Teague (and I'm not sure that's an objective improvement or just my bias for Rubio). Probably get Thabo or Afflalo or CJ Miles instead of Crawford. Then fill out the bench with vet minimum contacts.

With the significance of the Butler deal, I'm really only flirting around the edges with my other moves.

I feel pretty much the same way. I would have likely drafted someone other than Patton my OG or maybe Collins. I don't dislike the pick but I would have gone another direction.

Like you once we get to the cap space I'm not exactly sure there is a super no-brainer bunch of moves. Honestly the best possible move would be to take on some sort of guy in a deal. Heck the deal toronto did paying up a first and a 2nd to dump Carroll would have been interesting if you wanted assets and a decent vet player that was a 3-4 combo which does sound good. I would be tempted to have done the Teague deal then because that would give you another guy he played with before. That aspect is somewhat minor but also we would have added 2 first round picks and a 2nd while still improving the roster. It feels like we need another 3 weeks and some more guys to sign and things to play out to really accurately answer this question.

On the radio the other day Jon K said a bunch of smart basketball people told him that the talent this team has at the top of the roster...they weren't really that worried about the bench. They said they just need some guys to come in and do what they do and they will be fine. I am not suggesting the bench doesn't matter but having a guy like Butler that can actually make people better and carry the team himself on both ends and a tried and true glue guy like Taj is gonna be pretty big. They probably just need some guys to fill in the cracks. I still think a guy like Rush would be great in that type of a role and he isn't the only option out there.

[thedoper]

For variety's sake I'd like one more young guy on the bench to develop and one shooter. Other than that I can't really think of a scenario where I could have done more than Thibs did this offseason. He exceeded my imagination for a Wolves team.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The only thing different I would have done was draft Giles over Patton. Otherwise, it's really hard to tell what leaving us in the market for these later deals like Patterson, Bogdonovic, CJ, etc. would have done to those deals for our team. Does Patterson sign for 5-6 million per year here if he knows we have 20? I doubt it. So the debate is pretty much keep Ricky, sign 2 guys like Patterson and Bog and still have the room exception for another guy. I just can't confidently say that combo is better than Teague, Gibson and Crawford. I think option 1 leaves a big defensive hole in the frontcourt that Taj has filled that is probably big enough to put the playoffs in jeopardy Imo. I think now we've sealed our spot because we're built with the kind of defense and toughness that just grinds everyone down during the regular season and wins a lot of games. I get the argument for that extra quality bench piece this offseason, but keep in mind that we'll have the MLE next summer to sign that guy. I think we paid market price for quality this offseason and we can add that last piece next offseason with the MLE.

[Lipoli390]

1. I'd definitely do the Butler deal, but I'd hold out for the 38th pick and offer both $3M in cash and our incoming 2019 2nd round pick if necessary to make that happen with the idea of taking Jordan Bell (although I wouldn't have known for sure he'd be there at 38).

2. Draft John Collins with the 16th pick.

3. Keep Ricky

4. Sign Patterson for up to $7 million per year. (I'm assuming he'd be happy to sign here, especially if we offered slightly more than the $6.3 million he agreed to.

5. With my remaining $13 - 14 million in cap space, I'd sign the following:
a. CJ Miles at $7 million per year
b. Teodosic or Ilyasova at $6.5 - $7 million per year

6. Sign Ian Clark with the room exception

7. Sign Thabo to vet minimum

But honestly, I'm satisfied with the moves Thibs has made so far. The signings he's made thus far are probably better suited than my ideas to his coaching and what he wants to do.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

All of this is totally unfair of us to do because we have the benefit of hindsight, but here goes!

1. Do the Jimmy Butler trade Thibs did.

2. Trade Wiggins for Paul George. Seriously, the dude will stay where he can win, and with the team I'm assembling, we could actually compete with the Warriors now. George is three times the player Wiggins is now and twice the player he ever will be because he's much smarter and can defend.

3. Draft OG. The team I'm assembling needs versatile defensive specialists who don't need the ball to be effective, and OG could become a Ron Artest-level defender, but even more switchable. And I'm skeptical, but if OG's 3 point shot comes along, holy cow, that's the perfect role player for this team and for the way the league is developing.

4. Buy the Bulls' second rounder and draft Jonah Bolden. Another versatile defender like OG, but longer and he can also knock down outside shots. I also would have considered Ojeleye and Bell. I might actually have tried to trade the 16th pick if it would have been possible to move down to get two more picks if we could have gotten 3 of those guys (OG, Bolden, Ojeleye, and Bell, I think all four are very much like the type of players every team needs).

5. Do the Rubio trade and sign Kyle Lowry, hopefully convincing him to take less than the max for the chance to play on a contender.

6. Sign Taj Gibson or Ilyasova, whoever will take the lowest salaries for the chance to play for a contender. I suspect we could still have gotten Taj, which would be my preference.

7. Sign Sefolosha or Tony Allen, again pushing for low salaries knowing they'll be playing for a freaking superteam.

8. Sit back and wait for the best possible vets to sign for the minimum because they'll be thrilled to go for the title now, starting with a backup PG/combo guard.

Lowry/Tyus
Butler/Sefolosha or Allen
George/OG
Gibson or Ilyasova/Bjelica/Bolden
Towns/Dieng

The money would work at least for the next year, and then things would get a bit tricky. This is why Lowry would have to take a bit less this summer to leave us space for next year, and if we are a real threat to beat the Warriors (which I think we would be), then George and later Butler and Towns would have to take a little less than the full max, but the idea would be to have a roster built around those 4 as your big four, plus you still have OG and Bolden as young developing players, plus you still added a first rounder for next year, so even though it's all in to win now, we do keep an eye on the future.

Just look at that freaking starting lineup! That is clearly a top defense and top offense.

[Lipoli390]

All of this is totally unfair of us to do because we have the benefit of hindsight, but here goes!

1. Do the Jimmy Butler trade Thibs did.

2. Trade Wiggins for Paul George. Seriously, the dude will stay where he can win, and with the team I'm assembling, we could actually compete with the Warriors now. George is three times the player Wiggins is now and twice the player he ever will be because he's much smarter and can defend.

3. Draft OG. The team I'm assembling needs versatile defensive specialists who don't need the ball to be effective, and OG could become a Ron Artest-level defender, but even more switchable. And I'm skeptical, but if OG's 3 point shot comes along, holy cow, that's the perfect role player for this team and for the way the league is developing.

4. Buy the Bulls' second rounder and draft Jonah Bolden. Another versatile defender like OG, but longer and he can also knock down outside shots. I also would have considered Ojeleye and Bell. I might actually have tried to trade the 16th pick if it would have been possible to move down to get two more picks if we could have gotten 3 of those guys (OG, Bolden, Ojeleye, and Bell, I think all four are very much like the type of players every team needs).

5. Do the Rubio trade and sign Kyle Lowry, hopefully convincing him to take less than the max for the chance to play on a contender.

6. Sign Taj Gibson or Ilyasova, whoever will take the lowest salaries for the chance to play for a contender. I suspect we could still have gotten Taj, which would be my preference.

7. Sign Sefolosha or Tony Allen, again pushing for low salaries knowing they'll be playing for a freaking superteam.

8. Sit back and wait for the best possible vets to sign for the minimum because they'll be thrilled to go for the title now, starting with a backup PG/combo guard.

Lowry/Tyus
Butler/Sefolosha or Allen
George/OG
Gibson or Ilyasova/Bjelica/Bolden
Towns/Dieng

The money would work at least for the next year, and then things would get a bit tricky. This is why Lowry would have to take a bit less this summer to leave us space for next year, and if we are a real threat to beat the Warriors (which I think we would be), then George and later Butler and Towns would have to take a little less than the full max, but the idea would be to have a roster built around those 4 as your big four, plus you still have OG and Bolden as young developing players, plus you still added a first rounder for next year, so even though it's all in to win now, we do keep an eye on the future.

Just look at that freaking starting lineup! That is clearly a top defense and top offense.

Your moves are wild and would have been fantastic. But I think you're ideas fall in realm of fantasy. :). Obviously, Taj wasn't going to take significantly less to come here because we know what it took to get him here. There's no way Paul George was going to come here. No way Lowry was going to come here at a discount. If he was willing, he'd be here.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

First and foremost, the Butler deal was so good it makes all these other potential moves inconsequential. But here is what I think would have been preferential.

1) Draft Jarrett Allen or John Collins...either one of them could have provided big man depth this year as a 15th man.

2) Make the Butler deal...duh!

3) Keep Rubio

4) Retain cheap players from last year that fill key holes. Keep Aldrich rather than overpaying for Gibson, because a KAT/Cole and Gorgui/Belly is much stronger (and younger and cheaper!) than a rotation that swaps Gibson in for Aldrich. Keep Payne as a cheap 14th man who provides energy (albeit frenetic at times) off the bench. Keep Rush as a cheap 3-poiont option off the bench. Let Bazz go.

5) Use the remaining cap space (and there would have been plenty) to sign a much better 3-point option than Crawford (7-8 better options would have been available for the money we gave Gibson and the extra Teague money). Pay them enough that they will be satisfied with a 2-year deal, thus avoiding the future 2019-20 predicament Thibs has created by giving Teague a third year.

6) Convince Thibs that bench players actually do have value (force him to look at video and stats of Aldrich and Rush on their prior teams), and that his stars will perform up to their capabilities late in games if they are allowed to rest a little more.

6) Begin planning the victory parade route :)

[SameOldNudityDrew]

All of this is totally unfair of us to do because we have the benefit of hindsight, but here goes!

1. Do the Jimmy Butler trade Thibs did.

2. Trade Wiggins for Paul George. Seriously, the dude will stay where he can win, and with the team I'm assembling, we could actually compete with the Warriors now. George is three times the player Wiggins is now and twice the player he ever will be because he's much smarter and can defend.

3. Draft OG. The team I'm assembling needs versatile defensive specialists who don't need the ball to be effective, and OG could become a Ron Artest-level defender, but even more switchable. And I'm skeptical, but if OG's 3 point shot comes along, holy cow, that's the perfect role player for this team and for the way the league is developing.

4. Buy the Bulls' second rounder and draft Jonah Bolden. Another versatile defender like OG, but longer and he can also knock down outside shots. I also would have considered Ojeleye and Bell. I might actually have tried to trade the 16th pick if it would have been possible to move down to get two more picks if we could have gotten 3 of those guys (OG, Bolden, Ojeleye, and Bell, I think all four are very much like the type of players every team needs).

5. Do the Rubio trade and sign Kyle Lowry, hopefully convincing him to take less than the max for the chance to play on a contender.

6. Sign Taj Gibson or Ilyasova, whoever will take the lowest salaries for the chance to play for a contender. I suspect we could still have gotten Taj, which would be my preference.

7. Sign Sefolosha or Tony Allen, again pushing for low salaries knowing they'll be playing for a freaking superteam.

8. Sit back and wait for the best possible vets to sign for the minimum because they'll be thrilled to go for the title now, starting with a backup PG/combo guard.

Lowry/Tyus
Butler/Sefolosha or Allen
George/OG
Gibson or Ilyasova/Bjelica/Bolden
Towns/Dieng

The money would work at least for the next year, and then things would get a bit tricky. This is why Lowry would have to take a bit less this summer to leave us space for next year, and if we are a real threat to beat the Warriors (which I think we would be), then George and later Butler and Towns would have to take a little less than the full max, but the idea would be to have a roster built around those 4 as your big four, plus you still have OG and Bolden as young developing players, plus you still added a first rounder for next year, so even though it's all in to win now, we do keep an eye on the future.

Just look at that freaking starting lineup! That is clearly a top defense and top offense.

Your moves are wild and would have been fantastic. But I think you're ideas fall in realm of fantasy. :). Obviously, Taj wasn't going to take significantly less to come here because we know what it took to get him here. There's no way Paul George was going to come here. No way Lowry was going to come here at a discount. If he was willing, he'd be here.

At first, I was approaching it as fantasy. And I felt a bit like Mook in the highpost putting those together. But the more I think about it, I don't think it's too crazy because the more star talent you have on your team, the more other players are willing to sign on, even for less than they could get elsewhere. So oddly, the more audacious the plan got, the more realistic it got, in a sense. Hear me out.

Regarding Paul George, we'd be trading Wiggins for him, so he'd have to come. Indiana would do that deal over the Oladipo/Sabonis deal. The question is whether he'd resign next year. It's a gamble, but with Butler, Towns, and in my scenario, Lowry, I think it's almost a sure thing he re-signs. Where else is he going to have such a good team?

Regarding Lowry. He signed for 33 per year to try with basically the same team that couldn't get it done in the last couple years. If we pitched him the chance to play with Butler, Towns, AND Paul George, I'm pretty confident he would be willing to take a bit less and sign for us, let's say 28. If he was actually considering us as reports suggested because we added Butler to Towns and Wiggins, I'm sure he'd jump twice as fast at the chance to play with Butler, Towns, and Paul George.

So that's still adding Butler, George, Lowry, and the draft picks (OG and Bolden/Ojeleye/Bell).

I may have been fantasizing about getting Gibson on top of those guys, but honestly, the rest of the free agents don't really matter. Maybe we couldn't have gotten Gibson, although I still suspect that we could have gotten guys like Sefolosha, Ilyasova, and Tony Allen for cheap contracts (they're still available now, and there's almost no money left for teams to spend), and I bet guys like Pau Gasol, Deron Williams, and Derrick Rose would also be open to signing short exception or even vet minimum contracts for a team with 3 or 4 All-Stars. I'm not saying we should get those specific guys, but they are an example of the type of guys who take the minimum to play with teams like the one I'm envisioning.

The gamble after trading for George and signing Lowry would be that we would be good enough to convince George, Butler, and then Towns to extend, starting next year with George. In order for it to work out long term, they'd all have to take a bit less money than they could get elsewhere, and we'd almost definitely need to dump Gorgui to limit our tax liability in a couple years. But rolling with those four and a mix of versatile defenders and floor stretchers on rookie contracts and vet minimum and exception signings would work financially. And because that team would still be so good, I can't see Paul George leaving that team to go play with Lonzo Ball and Brandan Ingram. Just look at that lineup! I think that team could definitely compete with the Warriors. It would be more risky NOT to get both George and Lowry, because the team wouldn't be as good and it would raise the chances of a player not extending or insisting on taking the max. But by adding BOTH of them to Butler and Towns, I think you really increase the likelihood that they re-sign with us at a level that allows us to keep all four of them.

Lowry
Butler
George
(anybody)
Towns

We could have put that team together this summer, and I believe there's a good chance it would be possible to keep that core 4 together going forward. Fill around that team wisely with versatile defending and shooting rookie contracts and vets, and that team would compete with the Warriors for the next several years and probably beyond, because Towns will outlast any star the Warriors have.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.