Minnesota Sports Forum

The Wolves were once the League's hottest up-and-coming team entering the 2016 offseason with KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Rubio and the NBA's 5th pick in the draft. Enter Tom Thibodeau. We're now a team in limbo. KAT's still here and fulfilling expectations. But Wiggins has solidified his standing as a grossly overpaid disappointment with a contract that has a far more negative impact on the team than his positive contribution on the court. The 5th pick in the 2016 draft turned into Dunn instead of Murray or Hield. Now LaVine and Dunn are gone, effectively exchanged for Covington, who will be 29 next season, and the enigmatic Saric.

In a nutshell, the Wolves are no longer a hot up-and-comer. Instead, we're a largely ignored franchise trying to scratch and claw its way to an improbably right 8th seed and quick 1st-round exit after being an object of ridicule early in the season as Jimmy Butler made a mockery of the organization with his admiring top basketball executive and head coach enabling him every step of the way. Beyond KAT we have only one player, Okogie, with a high ceiling, but he has a broken shot and a long, long way to go.

Sitting here watching the Kings finish their 15-point win over the Spurs, I'm reminded of what it's like to watch a real up-and-coming team. So I thought I'd invite others to provide their list of the League's top up-and-coming teams. Here's my list:

1. Kings. I think they have the best collection of young talent in the League with Fox, Hield, Bagley, Bogdanovic, Cauley-Stein, Justin Jackson and Harry Giles. Look for the Kings to ascend in the West in the years ahead as the Warriors begin to fade.

2. Nuggets. As the 2nd place team in the West, I suppose they've moved beyond the up-and-comer category. But looking at the youth of their core, I can't leave them off my list. That core includes the 23 year old Jokic, the 24 year old Harris, the 22 year old Malik Beasley and the 21 year old Murray. Then they have other young players who haven't impressed much yet onthe court but who are still regarded as having high upside in Trey Lyles, Brandon Goodwin and Michael Porter Jr, all in their early 20s. I should probably include the 23 year old Monte Morris. Other than Millsap, the 28 year old Will Barton is the teamn's old guy.

3. Sixers. Like the Nuggets, it's fair to say they've arrived. But their core of talented young players gets them on my list -- There's the 24 year old Embiid, 22 year old Simmons, and 21 year old Landry Shamet who has made himself a key part of the Sixers rotation as a rookie. They have rookie Zhaire Smith, who has a ton of upside but has been held back by a foot injury. Oh, and there's Markelle Fultz who so far looks like a bust, but who is a super talent who could overcome what appear to be psychological issues and eventually reach his elite potential.

4. Celtics. Another team that's already arrived. But their impressive young core gets them on my list. The young core includes Jaylen Brown (22), Jayson Tatum (20), Marcus Smart (24), and Terry Rozier (24). But note that Kyrie Irving is still only 26 years old.

5. Mavs. My list concludes with the Dallas Mavs, a true up-and-comer like the Kings now that they've acquired Porzingis. It all hinges on Porzingis' health. If he comes back 100% from his ACL surgery, then look out. Put him together with Luka Doncic and you have a really special elite duo to build around. Rookie Jalen Brunson looks solid. Then you have Harrison Barnes and Tim Hardaway Jr. who are both still 26 years old.

The Kings definitely deserve to be on this list, but I think there is some recency bias with you putting them #1. However some of the other teams on the list are definitely more established and might not be considered "up and coming".

But I definitely agree with you, the Kings are on the rise. I really appreciate them not making a dumb short term move this year to trade for a vet for the playoff push. They this team play and see what happens. Obviously Fox is a stud, I love Bogdon, and I've always been a Belly guy. Space and pace, they maximize their young talent to this point. They are doing some interesting stuff off the court on the business side also, kind of duplicating the GS model with purchasing real estate to around the arena.

Other teams that look to be promising:

Brooklyn. Winning record way ahead of schedule... without their best player for the past two months. A lot of it depends on whether they resign Russell... and if he turns out to be a classic contract year player or not. Even if they let him walk... LeVert, Dinwiddie, Allen, Harris, et al. is decent. And they're finally done with the impact from the Boston/KG deal, so they have their picks. AND... A LOT of cap room. As of now, Dinwiddie at $10.6M is their largest contract next season.

Atlanta. Collins is looking legit. There are signs with Young. The team is actually playing itself out of the expected tankfest season. Plus, they have two lottery picks this season... and have Cleveland's #1 pick whenever it lands outside the top 10.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Other teams that look to be promising:

Brooklyn. Winning record way ahead of schedule... without their best player for the past two months. A lot of it depends on whether they resign Russell... and if he turns out to be a classic contract year player or not. Even if they let him walk... LeVert, Dinwiddie, Allen, Harris, et al. is decent. And they're finally done with the impact from the Boston/KG deal, so they have their picks. AND... A LOT of cap room. As of now, Dinwiddie at $10.6M is their largest contract next season.

Atlanta. Collins is looking legit. There are signs with Young. The team is actually playing itself out of the expected tankfest season. Plus, they have two lottery picks this season... and have Cleveland's #1 pick whenever it lands outside the top 10.

I'm not sure about the Nets yet, although I think it's fair to include them. Glaring oversight on my part leaving Atlanta with John Collins off my list. :)

Duke13 wrote:The Kings definitely deserve to be on this list, but I think there is some recency bias with you putting them #1. However some of the other teams on the list are definitely more established and might not be considered "up and coming".

But I definitely agree with you, the Kings are on the rise. I really appreciate them not making a dumb short term move this year to trade for a vet for the playoff push. They this team play and see what happens. Obviously Fox is a stud, I love Bogdon, and I've always been a Belly guy. Space and pace, they maximize their young talent to this point. They are doing some interesting stuff off the court on the business side also, kind of duplicating the GS model with purchasing real estate to around the arena.

Duke - You nailed it noting that the Kings avoided any dumb short-term moves for a vet. The same can be said for every team on my list, including the ones who are already contenders. The Sixers stuck with their core young guys, Embiid and Simmons, even through major injuries. They have their rookie, Shamet, getting major minutes. They've even stuck with Fultz. They only gave up a draft pick to get a higher pick in what now turns out to have been a mistake. But it wasn't there own pick. In fact, they still have all their own picks and a number of other picks they've acquired from other teams. When they finally dealt for Butler, they gave up a 28-year old rotation role player, Covington, and one young player with some upside, Saric. And they only did that when they were already a 50-win contending team with their young guys. You're not going to hit on every pick - e.g., Fultz. But the good organizations rebuild by amassing a lot of high-upside talent and patiently stick with that talent as they develop.

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Other teams that look to be promising:

Brooklyn. Winning record way ahead of schedule... without their best player for the past two months. A lot of it depends on whether they resign Russell... and if he turns out to be a classic contract year player or not. Even if they let him walk... LeVert, Dinwiddie, Allen, Harris, et al. is decent. And they're finally done with the impact from the Boston/KG deal, so they have their picks. AND... A LOT of cap room. As of now, Dinwiddie at $10.6M is their largest contract next season.

Atlanta. Collins is looking legit. There are signs with Young. The team is actually playing itself out of the expected tankfest season. Plus, they have two lottery picks this season... and have Cleveland's #1 pick whenever it lands outside the top 10.

I'm not sure about the Nets yet, although I think it's fair to include them. Glaring oversight on my part leaving Atlanta with John Collins off my list. :)

A winning record (w/ the top player injured) + a ton of cap room + one extra 1st rd. pick and (5) extra 2nd rd picks in the next couple of drafts.

Abe good call on Atlanta. I love Heurter, and other on the team. I was looking over their box score last night after the game, they have 3 guys who made 5 3's and that's not including T. Young. It's key to get a young core and practice good habits, and modern playing style in games, i.e Brooklyn and Philly. Philly did this when they were losing 70 games a year. And Brooklyn has done this also. Brooklyn has done a great job finding talent in the margins and using their cap to get underwhelming talent and coach them up. People talk about market size being an advantage, and it can be but what Brooklyn as done has nothing to do with market size.

The reason the Kings and do play at their pace is De'aaron Fox and the coach working to toward utilizing that strength which happens to fit a lot of their other layers also. Fox is a bigtime key to their style of play and success. A few months ago the Kings were still a joke. They still either did or sorta had to pass up on Luka for Bagley at #2. Their was chatter about them wanting to fire a coach that was surprisingly winning games. Still the Kings are a good story and heading in the right direction. Is this team a feel good young team that tops out as a playoff team or is it a legit contender type? Idk Kings fans are probably pretty happy with their lot right now and they should be. Best young nucleus? That's up for debate imo pun intended. :) If you want a positive spin on this as a Wolves fan just look how quickly things can run from a joke franchise to one with hope. Remember when people thought the Kings got worked in that Cousins trade? That trade doesn't look so terrible now does it for a myriad of reasons including Buddy looking like a really nice player.

monsterpile wrote:The reason the Kings and do play at their pace is De'aaron Fox and the coach working to toward utilizing that strength which happens to fit a lot of their other layers also. Fox is a bigtime key to their style of play and success. A few months ago the Kings were still a joke. They still either did or sorta had to pass up on Luka for Bagley at #2. Their was chatter about them wanting to fire a coach that was surprisingly winning games. Still the Kings are a good story and heading in the right direction. Is this team a feel good young team that tops out as a playoff team or is it a legit contender type? Idk Kings fans are probably pretty happy with their lot right now and they should be. Best young nucleus? That's up for debate imo pun intended. :) If you want a positive spin on this as a Wolves fan just look how quickly things can run from a joke franchise to one with hope. Remember when people thought the Kings got worked in that Cousins trade? That trade doesn't look so terrible now does it for a myriad of reasons including Buddy looking like a really nice player.

On the flip side... the Wolves are in Year 15 and looking to be heading down after a single playoff win to show for it.

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the Wolves NOT making the playoffs during KAT's remaining tenure with the team. I know that may sound ludicrous, but I'm extremely pessimistic about the talent surrounding him.

That includes Okogie. Saric. And obviously Wiggins, the weighted albatross dragging this team back into the depths of mediocrity.

The one thing keeping me off the ledge is YOU GUYS! I am buying in on "coaches make a very real difference" angle. In part, because the team doesn't have the players to pull it off, so I have to cling to something.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:The reason the Kings and do play at their pace is De'aaron Fox and the coach working to toward utilizing that strength which happens to fit a lot of their other layers also. Fox is a bigtime key to their style of play and success. A few months ago the Kings were still a joke. They still either did or sorta had to pass up on Luka for Bagley at #2. Their was chatter about them wanting to fire a coach that was surprisingly winning games. Still the Kings are a good story and heading in the right direction. Is this team a feel good young team that tops out as a playoff team or is it a legit contender type? Idk Kings fans are probably pretty happy with their lot right now and they should be. Best young nucleus? That's up for debate imo pun intended. :) If you want a positive spin on this as a Wolves fan just look how quickly things can run from a joke franchise to one with hope. Remember when people thought the Kings got worked in that Cousins trade? That trade doesn't look so terrible now does it for a myriad of reasons including Buddy looking like a really nice player.

On the flip side... the Wolves are in Year 15 and looking to be heading down after a single playoff win to show for it.

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the Wolves NOT making the playoffs during KAT's remaining tenure with the team. I know that may sound ludicrous, but I'm extremely pessimistic about the talent surrounding him.

That includes Okogie. Saric. And obviously Wiggins, the weighted albatross dragging this team back into the depths of mediocrity.

The one thing keeping me off the ledge is YOU GUYS! I am buying in on "coaches make a very real difference" angle. In part, because the team doesn't have the players to pull it off, so I have to cling to something.

This team has stayed afloat aside some key injuries. Of course some of that is due to some vets playing well although some of those guys are basically scrap heap guys that were never supposed to play. This team could get pretty young pretty fast next year depending on what FAs come back or new players signed. Teague might be the old many with Dieng filling close behind then Covington. Everyone else is 25 or younger. I think this team could be good enough in the mediocre column to make the playoffs but arguing against ultimate miediocrity...idk if I am prepared to do that. Why? You probably have never heard this before but there are just too many unknowns about this team going into next offseason. Sigh. I do think there is a chance this team could go in the right direction but we don't exactly have a ton other than Towns and Covington to really stake a claim on it.