Minnesota Sports Forum

Big, energetic crowd last night. Lots of positive energy in the building, both in the crowd and on the floor. While I didn't like the outcome, it was a fun game to watch.

KAT was the best player on the floor with 31 points, 12 rebounds 7 assists, 2 steals 1 block and 3 turnovers. Compare that to Jokic who had 13 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 5 turnovers. Jokic is a terrific player and was very good last night, but KAT clearly outplayed him.

No doubt the Wolves would have won this game if Covington had been playing. But then again, even with Covington, we probably would have lost if Denver had Murray and Harris on the court. That's a long way of saying, injuries are no excuse for losing last night. We were home with a big crowd and they were missing two of their top 3 players. We were missing 1 of our top 3 (Covington). I don't want to hear about Teague. Bayless is giving us more than Teague. We miss Tyus, but this was still a game the Wolves should have won.

The Wolves were outrebounded last night 48 to 40. In my view, that's the main reason we lost last night. Most of that wasn't box outs or positioning; instead, it Denver doing a better job of getting to loose balls. Denver's players just seemed quicker to the ball all night. I don't think it was an issue of effort. We just seem to lack guys with a nose for the ball. I recall several times last night seeing several Wolves players ball-watching as Denver players swarmed to loose balls that I think the Wolves could have gotten. The most notorious ball-watchers I noticed last night were Dario Saric and Andrew Wiggins. I hate to mention Wiggins in that vein because he was otherwise tremendous defensively last night and was really hustling most of the night. There just seem to be times with him in every game, including last night, where he seems to be dazed.

I can't point to any particular player as the reason we lost last night. Denver was simply the better team. As I said, Wiggins was excellent defensively last night, but the fact that he gave us only 10 points on 40% shooting with no 3 pointers and only 4 rebounds underscores the fact that this team desperately needs a second elite player to pair with KAT. Nothing new there. I thought Gorgui had a terrific game last night. Deng was good. But we had too many players taking a significant number of shots, but not with adequate efficiency. Saric took 7 shots and hit 28.6% of them. Deng took 11 shots and hit 36.4% of them. Wiggins and Rose each took 10 shots and made 40% and neither one made any threes. But our overall shooting percentage was about the same as Denver's. We actually attempted one more three-pointer than Denver, but they made 2 more than us.

So again, it was a matter of rebounding and getting to lose balls. The jury's still out of Ryan Saunders, but not getting KAT a touch on either of the final two possessions of the 1st half was unacceptable. And not finding a way to run the offense through KAT down the stretch in the 4th quarter was also suspect. At one point in the 4th he had Wiggins bring the ball up full court, which almost resulted in a disastrous turnover. I like Ryan, but I'm not overly impressed by his coaching so far.

The good news is that the Kings and Mavs won last night. So maybe we can at least secure more lottery balls. :)

I think okogie was a liability again on both ends last night. Outside of that one strip on jokic, okogie was getting pulled on a string defensively at the whim of the nuggets.

For a guy who brings nonstop energy, his do stuff things are worse than Wiggins.

Offensively, teams are refusing to guard him. A few plays he was dumping the ball into kat, yet his man just went straight to kat leaving him wide open.

Ball watching, I think that's just our offense. We dont involve anyone. Okogie, saric,wiggs, anyone not the pg or kat do the same things. Its fine if we moved the ball where everyone gets a touch, but we dont. If Saunders wanted to involve saric or wiggs, hed call a play for then in a high pnr or a post up, but he doesnt. Their roles are to spread the offense for kat and now Bayless.

Must have been a fun one last night, Lip...wish I could have been there. But I share your concern about Ryan's ability to keep KAT engaged on the offensive end. There's a lot to like about Ryan (Jim Peterson was absolutely gushing about how effective he is in commanding the team in practices, but Jim is also a Thibs hater of course), but I think whether he can change the offense enough to get KAT consistently involved is going to have a lot to do with whether I will be in favor of taking the interim label off. This team needs a coach who can get the most out of KAT throughout the game. But I will say it is fun to see how much the team is engaged under Ryan compared to under Thibs...to me it's night and day, and I prefer day!

I agree that KAT outplayed the marvelous Jokic, but since Taj had to defend that beast all night, some of the credit has to go to him also (and frankly the help defense, not least of which was Wiggins)...not often does he go 4-13. On the offensive side I felt that KAT could have scored on Jokic (or Plumlee or Millsap) whenever he wanted. 31 points on just 18 shots. Plus he had 7 assists...what a joy to watch him find Bayless when he is doubled, because Bayless is going to make that shot more often than not, and isn't shy about taking it. I agree that missing Teague is not a problem when Jerryd is playing so well...the problem is though having 2 PGs out forces Ryan to play the dreadful Loose Canaan (I think that nickname might stick!).

We really could have used this win, but it was a fun one nevertheless. We're still 3 1/2 games out, and sadly Jim Pete said the three injured players are not close to returning...so I'm about ready to throw in the towel and advocate more minutes for Okogie and Bates-Diop to see what they got. Playing Josh Okogie 38 minutes a night might be the modern day equivalent of the infamous Mark Madsen 3-point tank night!

Someone in the media needs to ask Ryan if this is the offense he's content to run going forward, both this year and possibly next year. It absolutely sucks with the amount of standing around happening while our PG and one big try to go 2 on 5. Of course this is Thibs' offense, so hopefully it's more of not being able to change right now. Do yourself a favor and watch how Milwaukee runs their offense. There's no standing, the whole 5 man unit is engaged and flowing together. There's a reason they trail only the Warriors in points per game. But seriously, someone have the guts to ask Saunders what his plans are. If he answers that this is pretty much it, he shouldn't be brought back.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Someone in the media needs to ask Ryan if this is the offense he's content to run going forward, both this year and possibly next year. It absolutely sucks with the amount of standing around happening while our PG and one big try to go 2 on 5. Of course this is Thibs' offense, so hopefully it's more of not being able to change right now. Do yourself a favor and watch how Milwaukee runs their offense. There's no standing, the whole 5 man unit is engaged and flowing together. There's a reason they trail only the Warriors in points per game. But seriously, someone have the guts to ask Saunders what his plans are. If he answers that this is pretty much it, he shouldn't be brought back.

I don't disagree. But then go back and watch the player and ball movement on the initial plays of the game (Jim Pete was raging about them last night) and some plays he calls out of timeouts and you wonder why that disappears at the end of games. There's no discernible difference between Ryan's play calling at the end of games and Thibs'. I agree, cool...the media should call him out on that.

On another matter, I'm not sympathetic to Jokic's whining to the refs last night. Yes, it was quite physical underneath and there were a couple times fouls could have been called, but it was little different from the treatment KAT gets every night. And frankly, the refs didn't call Jokic on the several times he hooked or used his left arm going to the basket. He's a great player, but the calls went both ways for him last night.

DVR Recap Review:

- The Wolves lost in part because while they were arguing a non-call (KAT) or lollygagging (Bayless + Wiggins) Jokic threw an 80-foot pass to Beasley for a layup.

- Monte Morris. I can't give this guy enough credit... 51st pick in the draft in 3 starts this week:
8 - 12 fg / 20 pts / 7 reb / 7 assists / 0 TO / +16
7 - 11 fg / 18 pts / 6 reb / 8 assists / 1 TO / +21
7 - 13 fg / 17 pts / 7 reb / 10 assists / 1 TO / +15

He's making $1.3M. That's absurd.

- Malik Beasley is just as absurd. How absurd? The wing has shot better than 50% for 12 straight games and has had 22/35/22 in his past 3 games.

He's making $1.7M
How remarkable is that? Consider...

- Andrew Wiggins has shot BELOW 40% in 15 of his past 22 games. He's shot above 50% only 9 times all season... he's making $25M.

- KAT was great, although he was quieter obviously in the 4th. I think when we look back at his season, we'll remember it for how much he's improved as a passer. For the 2nd time this season, Jokic struggled shooting vs. the Wolves... but still is effective because of his passing ability (+ teammates ability to hit shots)

- The Nuggets are light years ahead of the Wolves... even as the Wolves keep these games close. It's not necessarily seen on the top end. Jokic = KAT. But consider possibilitites for the 3rd best player if you combined rosters:

1. Jamal Murray (21)
2. Gary Harris (24)
3. Will Barton (28)
4. Paul Millsap (33) ... even though he was atrocious last night... he's still a good player and won the first matchup
5. Monte Morris (23)
6. Malik Beasley (22)
7. Robert Covington (28) might be slightly higher, but his skillset is extremely limited and he doesn't have the upside as everybody else sans Millsap)
8. Taj Gibson (33)
9. Derrick Rose (30)
10. Jeff Teague (30)
11. Dario Saric (24) Might be low... but the guy is more than scuffling right now. He's a legit liability.
12. Mason Plumlee (28)
13. Tyus Jones (22)

* Andrew Wiggins (23). Honestly, I have no idea where to rank him... by skill... by impact... by promise... and then you have that ridiculous contract sitting there hovering over everything. Your guess is as good as mine where he fits in. And the thing is... I'm sure there are people out there who'd have him A LOT closer to #10 on this list than #1 -- and sadly, they'd have a lot of tangible evidence and anecdotal stuff to back up that take.

Look at the rankings + the ages. It's absolutely ridiculous how far behind the Wolves are. Buckle up for another re-re-re-re-build.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:DVR Recap Review:

- The Wolves lost in part because while they were arguing a non-call (KAT) or lollygagging (Bayless + Wiggins) Jokic threw an 80-foot pass to Beasley for a layup.

- Monte Morris. I can't give this guy enough credit... 51st pick in the draft in 3 starts this week:
8 - 12 fg / 20 pts / 7 reb / 7 assists / 0 TO / +16
7 - 11 fg / 18 pts / 6 reb / 8 assists / 1 TO / +21
7 - 13 fg / 17 pts / 7 reb / 10 assists / 1 TO / +15

He's making $1.3M. That's absurd.

- Malik Beasley is just as absurd. How absurd? The wing has shot better than 50% for 12 straight games and has had 22/35/22 in his past 3 games.

He's making $1.7M
How remarkable is that? Consider...

- Andrew Wiggins has shot BELOW 40% in 15 of his past 22 games. He's shot above 50% only 9 times all season... he's making $25M.

- KAT was great, although he was quieter obviously in the 4th. For the 2nd time this season, Jokic struggled shooting vs. the Wolves... but still is effective because of his passing ability (+ teammates ability to hit shots)

- The Nuggets are light years ahead of the Wolves... even as the Wolves keep these games close. It's not necessarily seen on the top end. Jokic = KAT. But consider possibilitites for the 3rd best player is if you combined rosters:

1. Jamal Murray (21)
2. Gary Harris (24)
3. Will Barton (28)
4. Paul Millsap (33) ... even though he was atrocious last night... he's still a good player and won the first matchup
5. Monte Morris (23)
6. Malik Beasley (22)
7. Robert Covington (28) might be slightly higher, but his skillset is extremely limited and he doesn't have the upside as everybody else sans Millsap)
8. Taj Gibson (33)
9. Derrick Rose (30)
10. Jeff Teague (30)
11. Dario Saric (24)
11. Mason Plumlee (28)
12. Tyus Jones (22)

* Andrew Wiggins (23). Honestly, I have no idea where to rank him... by skill... by impact... by promise... and then you have that ridiculous contract sitting there hovering over everything. Your guess is as good as mine where he fits in. And the thing is... I'm sure there are people out there who'd have him A LOT closer to #10 on this list than #1 -- and sadly, they'd have a lot of tangible evidence and anecdotal stuff to back up that take.

Look at the rankings + the ages. It's absolutely ridiculous how far behind the Wolves are. Buckle up for another re-re-re-re-build.

I can't argue with that list...Denver has assembled a terrifically deep roster, and they are well coached on top of it (I would argue that Malone's coaching turns below average talent into good players) and that is an important factor in their depth...similar to Pop). I think they eventually get beat out by the Warriors, but we shouldn't be surprised they are tied right now...and to think we beat them out for the 8th spot last year. One thing I will say about the Wolves...they seem to be in every game the play against the Nuggets. What a fun game last night. Johnny K tweeted "Can you imagine a 7-game series with these two? Sign me up." I agree.

It was good to see Saric go 2-4 on threes last night, but he was a minus 10 because his defense on Lyles was atrocious. Come on, Dario...you need to be better than that on defense. Kudos to Ryan for going to the Twin Towers (KAT/Dieng) not seen much since Sam Mitchell when he saw Dario struggling.

Watched the game early this morning and then went and got in some morning hoops. Here are my thoughts.

There were a bunch of offensive rebounds the Nuggets got especially in the first half that were just bounces that went basically to a Nuggets player. There were a couple the Wolves didn't do their jobs but I didn't think the effort on the boards was bad especially against a team like the Nuggets. The defensive rebounds were dead even those offensive rebounds were key.

The defense was honestly pretty good all things considered.

All in all this was a fun game and the Wolves were in it against a good team. This wasn't a game I thought we would win but we were right there. Make one more shot or a couple FTs and we win. It was a good performance in my book. If the Wolves can play like that more they will have a chance at making the playoffs. Only 8 turnovers in that game for the Wolves.

As far as Ryan's coaching he used 11 guys throwing whatever he could put there. Putting Dieng out there against Jokic actually made a lot of sense to me. Put a center that likes to play defense like a guard at times on a big playmaking center who isn't super fast. Canaan makes 1 wide open 3 we win the game.

Last night solidified my belief that Okogie can be anywhere from a NBA starter to a Chinese pro. It would be nice if we had a player become an unexpected positive surprise one day. All of our draft picks seem to linger in unrealized potential. The only surefire overachiever was Pek that I can remember them injuries killed his career.

A lot of us have been criticizing Ryan (me included) for his Thibsian play call at the end of last night's game, but Youngblood's Strib article says Denver didn't allow them to execute the play that Ryan drew up. Dario was supposed to pick for Jerryd, allowing him to get into the lane to either shoot or feed KAT, but Denver foiled it and forced the Deng 3. I think most of us would have liked that play, so it was good to read it in the paper this morning...makes me feel better about Ryan going forward.