Minnesota Sports Forum

A fairly small crowd for a Sunday 6:00 p.m. game. I don't have much to report. Most of you probably saw the game on TV and those who didn't have probably reviewed the game thread and box score. Wiggins had a terrific offensive game and continued his display of hustle on both ends of the court. He still had 4 turnovers, which resulted from a combination of his poor hands and his questionable basketball IQ. But did everything he could to get us a win except stop Mitchell.

Fact is, as a team, the Wolves couldn't get stops as evidenced by Utah's 125 points on 53.5% FG shooting. That was the story of the game. On the offensive end, Okogie had a horrific shooting night, hitting only 1 of 10 field goal attempts. Ouch!! Saric's offensive anemia continued as he scored only 3 points in nearly 30 minutes. The Wolves might have outscored the Jazz if Okogie and Saric had showed up on the offensive end. But again, you give up 125 points on over 53% shooting and you're likely to lose.

The poor spacing and lack of ball movement we've seen all season were on full display tonight. I can't think of a team other than the Wolves that typically has at least 4 of its 5 players inside the arc for most of nearly every offensive possession. It terribly frustrating to watch. Apparently, Saunders is trying to change this and I do think the pace has been better with less perpetual PG dribbling than we typically saw under Thibodeau. But it's still basically the same offense. Watching tonight's game made me think of Barkley's comment the other night at half time that the Wolves have no identity and aren't fun to watch. That's how I'd describe the Wolves tonight.

The team really missed Covington and Tyus tonight - mainly for their defense, but also Tyus for his quarterbacking on offense. I could see the Wolves winning tonight's game if these two had been playing. Unfortunately, they weren't. And their absence isn't an acceptable excluse for losing a key game like this one on our home court. We still had our best two players - KAT and Wiggins. Yet we lost by 14 points at home. The Rockets continue to win, beating very good teams, without two of their 3 best players - Chris Paul and Capela. So no excuses.

Tonight's loss solidified my view that the Wolves won't make the playoffs this season. It also further inclines me to want the Wolves to be sellers before the upcoming trade deadline and try hard to move Teague, Rose, Taj and/or Tolliver for the best draft picks the Wolves can get.

lipoli390 wrote:A fairly small crowd for a Sunday 6:00 p.m. game. I don't have much to report. Most of you probably saw the game on TV and those who didn't have probably reviewed the game thread and box score. Wiggins had a terrific offensive game and continued his display of hustle on both ends of the court. He still had 4 turnovers, which resulted from a combination of his poor hands and his questionable basketball IQ. But did everything he could to get us a win except stop Mitchell.

Fact is, as a team, the Wolves couldn't get stops as evidenced by Utah's 125 points on 53.5% FG shooting. That was the story of the game. On the offensive end, Okogie had a horrific shooting night, hitting only 1 of 10 field goal attempts. Ouch!! Saric's offensive anemia continued as he scored only 3 points in nearly 30 minutes. The Wolves might have outscored the Jazz if Okogie and Saric had showed up on the offensive end. But again, you give up 125 points on over 53% shooting and you're likely to lose.

The poor spacing and lack of ball movement we've seen all season were on full display tonight. I can't think of a team other than the Wolves that typically has at least 4 of its 5 players inside the arc for most of nearly every offensive possession. It terribly frustrating to watch. Apparently, Saunders is trying to change this and I do think the pace has been better with less perpetual PG dribbling than we typically saw under Thibodeau. But it's still basically the same offense. Watching tonight's game made me think of Barkley's comment the other night at half time that the Wolves have no identity and aren't fun to watch. That's how I'd describe the Wolves tonight.

The team really missed Covington and Tyus tonight - mainly for their defense, but also Tyus for his quarterbacking on offense. I could see the Wolves winning tonight's game if these two had been playing. Unfortunately, they weren't. And their absence isn't an acceptable excluse for losing a key game like this one on our home court. We still had our best two players - KAT and Wiggins. Yet we lost by 14 points at home. The Rockets continue to win, beating very good teams, without two of their 3 best players - Chris Paul and Capela. So no excuses.

Tonight's loss solidified my view that the Wolves won't make the playoffs this season. It also further inclines me to want the Wolves to be sellers before the upcoming trade deadline and try hard to move Teague, Rose, Taj and/or Tolliver for the best draft picks the Wolves can get.

Lip I think the Wolves played terrific defense for most of the first 3 quarters. There were some breakdowns but the Jazz certainly executed down the stretch as well. As for the offense the Wolves put up some pretty good shooting numbers against a very good defensive team. If they can play like this more nights they will win games and stay in the playoff hunt. Okogie's D was pretty good. That one contest t the rim taking away sure points where he ended up snatching the ball away and coming down with it was unbelievable. He had some pretty poor offensive possessions where he tried to do too much.

I was frustrated with Ryan's offense tonight too, Lip, and noticed the same malaise you saw...constant PG dribbling and 4 players standing around inside the arc. We have a lot of talent, but we still don't look like an NBA offense.

But I'm cutting the Wolves more slack than you in excusing them for missing RoCo, Rose, Tyus and Teague (and Tolliver dressed but a little nicked up). I think they almost certainly win last night with everyone healthy. Missing those guys puts Josh (not at all ready for the NBA) Okogie and Jered (never will be ready) Terrell on the court for 43 minutes, and Jerryd (a very good 4th PG option) Bayless on the court for 37 minutes...no team wins in this league with those guys playing that many minutes unless maybe they have Lebron on the court with them. You mention Houston, but actually they are only 4-2 with both Capela and Paul out, and they played an easy schedule with games against Memphis, the Lakers and 4 Eastern teams. And having those guys out doesn't force them to play guys who don't belong in the NBA. You just get a little more Nene and a lot more Harden...a far cry from more Terrell and Okogie. We simply need to get those guys back, because we just aren't competitive without them.

Any offense that limits the leading scorer to only 10 shot attempts in 36+ minutes is doing something wrong.

A lot of it is spacing. The Wolves have none as mentioned. Gibson doesn't give it to them... and Saric can be virtually ignored offensively with what he's giving them right now.

I noticed the Jazz went small on Towns late with Crowder on him. Without floor spacers to take Gobert/Favors out to the perimeter, KAT was looking at a double team or weakside help every time. So what happens when teams go small on our center?

He doesn't even get the ball for an entire quarter. I know some of that is because Wiggins got hot in the 4th quarter, but there were a lot of other possessions that ended in a shot from Bayless or somebody where KAT never touched the ball despite being defended by an undersized 4.

1) That's inexcusable for the Wolves
2) It's why I'm worried about KAT/team's ultimate ceiling even if he reaches his potential. Notice the Jazz had ZERO problems getting it to their star player EVERY time down the court. That's how the modern NBA works. And which way proved best last night?

Re kat: the jazz were daring okogie and whoever else to beat them. I thought kat played well facilitating for others, he and wiggs have a chemistry. We could have pushed the issue, but then kat would have to go through crowder and then a gobert waiting at the rim. Outside of wiggs, the jazz werent even covering anyone. And with 4 guys basically standing still, we are easy to defend when we dump it in.

I do find it odd though that we like to run through bayless a lot late in games.

I would normally join in the chorus of disbelief about KAT's shot attempts, except that, in the end, we were scoring just fine in the second half. Defensively we couldn't get stops. They scored an ungodly amount of points in the 2nd half. This team still has more work to do defensively than offensively, as ugly as our offense can be sometimes.

Q12543 wrote:I would normally join in the chorus of disbelief about KAT's shot attempts, except that, in the end, we were scoring just fine in the second half. Defensively we couldn't get stops. They scored an ungodly amount of points in the 2nd half. This team still has more work to do defensively than offensively, as ugly as our offense can be sometimes.

Our poor defensive late last night might have something to do with Bayless and Deng being on the court, again Deng was being asked to play the 3, something he and Tolliver can't do, and shouldn't be asked to. I don't blame Saunders due to the lack of wings right now.

crazy-canuck wrote:Re kat: the jazz were daring okogie and whoever else to beat them. I thought kat played well facilitating for others, he and wiggs have a chemistry. We could have pushed the issue, but then kat would have to go through crowder and then a gobert waiting at the rim. Outside of wiggs, the jazz werent even covering anyone. And with 4 guys basically standing still, we are easy to defend when we dump it in.

I do find it odd though that we like to run through bayless a lot late in games.

Yes. Lack of movement off the ball and poor spacing make the Wolves relatively easy to defend. One of the most amazing things about KAT is that nearly every bucket he gets is a tough heavily guarded one; yet he's averaging 23 points per game. The fact that our players clusters inside the arc on the offensive end not only makes us easy to defend, it hurts our defense because it takes longer for our guys to get back defensively.

Running the offense through Bayless simply reflects continuation of Thibodeau's PG-centric system, which relies on isolation scoring that starts with the PG first looking for his shot.

Bottom line is that this is still Thibs' team from a system standpoint. It will remain so until Ryan or another head coach has the chance to assemble his own team of assistants, change the mix of players and work with the roster through an entire training camp and preseason. Our offense needs to run far more through KAT. He's a great post player, but also a terrific 3-point and mid-range shooter. He's a very good passer and has excellent ball skills. Heck, he won the skills competition at the allstar game a few years ago. The Wolves' failure to tap in to his entire arsenal of skills is misguided. The Wolves offense also needs much better spacing, more/quicker passing and far more off-ball movement. And of course, our defense needs to improve - something that will happen instantly the moment Covington steps back on the court.

The team's attitude is clearly much better since Ryan took over. The pace of play seems better as well. But it's not fair to expect Ryan or any new head coach to break player habits drilled into them for 2 years by his predecessor, especially when that predecessor is a taskmaster the likes of Thibodeau. It's totally unrealistic to expect Ryan or any new head coach to fundamentally change the way this team plays two-thirds into the season. There isn't enough practice time to implement fundamental change and have it work on the court against teams who by now have their respective systems down pat. Ryan has been further hampered by the loss of the Wolves best defensive player, Covington, and more recently the team's best PG, both defensively and as a facilitator who makes his teammates better on the offensive end.

I know that LST and some others still hold out hope that the Wolves can make the playoffs this season. I just don't see it. Thibodeau should have been replaced at the beginning of the season in the midst of the Butler fiasco. He wasn't. As a result, I see this as a lost season. It's time to focus on preparing for next season. That means trading veteran players with expiring contracts by the Feb. trade deadline in exchange for draft picks and/or young players with upside. Rose, Tolliver and Gibson would all fetch some value in return individually and perhaps more so in combination. I think the Sixers would like to get Tolliver and Rose. Houston would love to acquire any or all of those three. Ideally, we'd trade Teague by the deadline, but his salary would make it difficult to get a deal that works for us. We should continue giving Okogie significant minutes in spite of his poor shooting. If you watch closely, he's still doing other things well, so it's inaccurate to say he's not playing at an NBA level now. I wouldn't bring back Covington, Tyus, Teague or Rose until absolutely sure they're 100% healthy.

As long as the Wolves have KAT, the team has the potential to develop into a contender. But like any achievement, attaining contender status will require a laser-like focus on that goal. This organization can't allow itself to be distracted by the the short-term, unsatisfying and improbably goal of barely making the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed at best.