Minnesota Sports Forum

I'm ending my self-imposed moratorium on calling for the replacement of Tom Thibodeau as head coach. Watching these two teams provides a telling contrast in how an offense should run and how it should not.

Boston's offense operates with constant ball movement. Players rarely take more than 3 dribbles in their half-court offense. The ball regularly moves from strong side to weak side. Boston's PG and occasionally others dribble the ball, but they always dribble with a purpose within the framework of the offense. And even a prolific scoring PG like Kyrie is looking to create for others as much as he's looking to score the ball himself. The Celtics' offense repeatedly produced uncontested shots - especially threes. The ball moves faster than any player. Therefore, it's not surprising when a lot of passing gives shooters wide open looks. That's what we saw from the Celtics tonight. The Celtics' 128 points tonight were fueled by 30 assists tonight.

In stark contrast, the Wolves offense tonight, as always, was characterized by seemingly endless dribbling by Teague or Rose - Teague more than Rose. The end result of nearly every single offensive possession was a contested shot. In the end, the Wolves had only 19 assists compared to the Celtics' 30. Meanwhile, while the Celtics took 44 threes, the Wolves took only 28. My wife noticed that Covington and Saric move less in the half court sets than they did when they first got here. They are finally unlearning the Brown offense and internalizing the Thibodeau offense. Obviously, that's not a good thing.

This game was winnable. But the Wolves aren't going to win many games against the top teams in League playing Thibodeau iso-ball offense. And it's simply amazing how many offensive possessions, especially in the 4th quarter never had KAT touching the ball. That's totally unacceptable. The offense needs to run through the Wolves best offensive player - and that player is Karl Anthony Towns. And it can't always be post-ups. It's really hard to consistently get good post position in the NBA with big bodies banging you all night. It's especially problematic given how bad our PGs are at feeding the post quickly and cleanly. Towns is tremendously skilled with the ball for a guy his size at his position. He can drive by guys, get to to the rim or pull up and shoot with accuracy. He's our best three-point shooter and can hit from anywhere along the three-point arc. Alas, the Wolves generally don't run the offense through Towns and I can't remember the last time the Wolves ran a play for Towns coming out of a timeout. As I said, my self-imposed moratorium has just ended. So I'll say it now as I have many times before - Thibodeau has to go!

A few other thoughts on players.

Teague proved again tonight that he's a shooting guard trapped in side a PG's body. He makes Thibodeau's motionless iso offense even worse than it would otherwise be.

Saric continued his poor three-point shooting tonight. He's been bad from behind the arc all season, which includes his time in Philly before the trade. He was a pretty bad three-point shooter his first two seasons. He's had one good season as a three-point shooter. So maybe he's not very good from behind the arc. We'll have to see.

Covington was, in my view, our best player tonight. He was defending, rebounding and hustling as he always does. Not surprisingly, he ended up with 10 boards and 4 steals. And he also scored 17 points.

I thought KAT showed great effort, especially on the offensive side of the ball. His numbers weren't great, but he still scored 20 points and pulled down 9 rebounds.

Gibson played really well, but he missed 4 free throws.

I still saw the great comraderie among the Wolves players before and during the game. And I still like our talent. But this team needs a better head coach to get the most out of that talent. And at some point, Teague will have to be moved.

Teague hesitates way too much to be out there late in games unless he's the primary ball handler.

There really is no point passing it to him out there when he won't shoot, but he does do an excellent job of supplying loaded grenades to his teammates.

Some other team must need Teague and his expiring contract even with the risk he exercises the player option.

Boston is good and even better now that Hayward seems to be returning to form. And Lip makes a lot of good points about Thibs' offense and Teague's dribbling. But we would be celebrating now (even as we complained about Teague) if we had just made (or had Boston missed) a few more threes last night. Ultimately this game was about 3-point makes and misses. The 2 teams make threes at exactly the same percentage this season, and with a few more attempts, Boston averages only 2 more makes per game than we do. But last night the Celtics made 8 more threes than we did. If they only make 2 more than us like they do on a normal night, the Wolves win by 9 rather than losing by 9. It's a make or miss league, and tonight was a make night for Boston. And don't blame it on the defense...they made open looks, and we missed.

Smart, Hayward and Saric all came into the game making about 30% of their 3's. But tonight Smart and Hayward went 6-9 while Saric went 0-4, and I would argue that Saric's attempts were at least as open as Boston's two guys'...that's an 18 point swing, and your ball game right there. Next time these two teams play, Saric might make 2-4 while Smart goes 0-4, and the Wolves will win...it's a make or miss league.

So is Saric the problem? Not at all. He had an excellent game other than his 3-point misses, and despite his struggles this year beyond the arc, he needs to keep shooting them...even at 30%, that's the equivalent of 45% on 2's, and he's a 35% career shooter beyond the arc. I'm not worried about Dario.

Wiggins showed some spark tonight and was relatively efficient with 17 points on only 12 shots, and Rose was terrific as he has been all year.

As for Thibs, I agree that he has to go. He doesn't seem to have the ability to recognize when an energy lineup is jelling, and is far too quick to alter an effective lineup to rush an ineffective starter back into the game. Any casual fan could see the energy Tyus and Gorgui were bringing...they were a net plus 1 while nobody else on the roster was positive. And yet Thibs chose to yank them early and give them only a combined 25 minutes. I guess he prefers watching Teague dribble around rather than watching Tyus move the ball crisply...frustrating.

But I'm not too unhappy about this game tonight. Boston again looks like they will challenge and likely beat Toronto in the East, and we would have beaten them without the uncharacteristic 3-point disparity. We look like a playoff team to me.

I think I'm more upset at KAT's individual performance than I am the loss. He needs to start imposing his will on games like this and he was mediocre at best. If he's such good buds with Al Horford, he should request a master class this offseason in the nuances of how to play Center in the modern game. Here is a sample class schedule:

Day 1 - Screen and Roll 101: How to set a proper pick
Day 2 - Screen and Roll 201: How to set an illegal ball screen without getting caught
Day 3 - Screen and Roll 301: Knowing when to roll vs. pop
Day 4 - Yoga and meditation practice.
Day 5 - Defense 111: The defensive stance and staying square
Day 6 - Defense 211: Principles of Verticality
Day 7 - Defense 311: How to close out on a shooter without leaving your feet

etc.

You get the picture....other courses of study would be Player/Referee Relations: How to Command Respect (hint: don't be a drama queen); Rebounding: When to Crash the Offensive glass and When not to; Authenticity: How to avoid the Cliche Trap.

Lip this is Saric's 3rd season in the league. Not sure how he was a bad 3 point shooter in his 2nd season shooting 39%. :) Looking at his euroleague stats he wasn't really shooting the 3 well till his last season in Europe. That was about the age Bjelica started taking and making 3's internationally but didn't start making them at the percentage Saric did until the next year. He was not known as a shooter before that remember it was his size with his play making/passing that was so intruiging. Meanwhile Saric was winning MVP of Adriatic league and back to back young player awards. As for his shooting Saric rookie year was his worst in the NBA from the FT line at 78% then the next year it jumped to 86% and now it's basically a shocker when he misses. I actually have a lot of confidence he is going to be able to make 3's at this level. That one pass he caught inside the 3 point line and he ran back behind the 3 point line to take the 3 probably wasn't the right play he should have taken a couple dribbles in and taken a midrange 2 or gone tot he basket BUT it was great to see a guy that gets the importance of actually getting those 3's up!

Also after reading that note that Lowe had about his offensive rebounding I watched for that And Saric is really good at crashing the boards and he does it in a way that doesn't take himself out of plays. He seems to know the situation behind him and whether or not he has a chance to get the ball without his team getting burned on the other end. Then of course if he doesn't get the ball he actually hustles back to the other end of the floor.

Boston is good and even better now that Hayward seems to be returning to form. And Lip makes a lot of good points about Thibs' offense and Teague's dribbling. But we would be celebrating now (even as we complained about Teague) if we had just made (or had Boston missed) a few more threes last night. Ultimately this game was about 3-point makes and misses. The 2 teams make threes at exactly the same percentage, and with a few more attempts, Boston averages only 2 more makes per game than we do. But last night the Celtics made 8 more threes

Q12543 wrote:I think I'm more upset at KAT's individual performance than I am the loss. He needs to start imposing his will on games like this and he was mediocre at best. If he's such good buds with Al Horford, he should request a master class this offseason in the nuances of how to play Center in the modern game. Here is a sample class schedule:

Day 1 - Screen and Roll 101: How to set a proper pick
Day 2 - Screen and Roll 201: How to set an illegal ball screen without getting caught
Day 3 - Screen and Roll 301: Knowing when to roll vs. pop
Day 4 - Yoga and meditation practice.
Day 5 - Defense 111: The defensive stance and staying square
Day 6 - Defense 211: Principles of Verticality
Day 7 - Defense 311: How to close out on a shooter without leaving your feet

etc.

You get the picture....other courses of study would be Player/Referee Relations: How to Command Respect (hint: don't be a drama queen); Rebounding: When to Crash the Offensive glass and When not to; Authenticity: How to avoid the Cliche Trap.

Q, KAT has been terrific recently, but he also bothered me last night. Sometimes I think he is deferential to Horford because he respects him so much. It reminds me of when I would lose to my Dad in tennis at 14 even though I knew I was better than he was...it just didn't feel right to beat him. KAT will bounce back against Houston, but I thought he was mediocre last night also.

Q12543 wrote:I think I'm more upset at KAT's individual performance than I am the loss. He needs to start imposing his will on games like this and he was mediocre at best. If he's such good buds with Al Horford, he should request a master class this offseason in the nuances of how to play Center in the modern game. Here is a sample class schedule:

Day 1 - Screen and Roll 101: How to set a proper pick
Day 2 - Screen and Roll 201: How to set an illegal ball screen without getting caught
Day 3 - Screen and Roll 301: Knowing when to roll vs. pop
Day 4 - Yoga and meditation practice.
Day 5 - Defense 111: The defensive stance and staying square
Day 6 - Defense 211: Principles of Verticality
Day 7 - Defense 311: How to close out on a shooter without leaving your feet

etc.

You get the picture....other courses of study would be Player/Referee Relations: How to Command Respect (hint: don't be a drama queen); Rebounding: When to Crash the Offensive glass and When not to; Authenticity: How to avoid the Cliche Trap.

Great post, well said...

Duke13 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think I'm more upset at KAT's individual performance than I am the loss. He needs to start imposing his will on games like this and he was mediocre at best. If he's such good buds with Al Horford, he should request a master class this offseason in the nuances of how to play Center in the modern game. Here is a sample class schedule:

Day 1 - Screen and Roll 101: How to set a proper pick
Day 2 - Screen and Roll 201: How to set an illegal ball screen without getting caught
Day 3 - Screen and Roll 301: Knowing when to roll vs. pop
Day 4 - Yoga and meditation practice.
Day 5 - Defense 111: The defensive stance and staying square
Day 6 - Defense 211: Principles of Verticality
Day 7 - Defense 311: How to close out on a shooter without leaving your feet

etc.

You get the picture....other courses of study would be Player/Referee Relations: How to Command Respect (hint: don't be a drama queen); Rebounding: When to Crash the Offensive glass and When not to; Authenticity: How to avoid the Cliche Trap.

Great post, well said...

A lot of these things on offense I have said Towns needs to improve on. I've seen him be MUCH better overall this year. It's been a nice development. He still needs to get better but I thought it was more the guys getting him the ball in this game than him and I have been pretty hard on him about these things. He isn't there yet but the progress has been encouraging. So has the defense.

Just saw the advanced boxscores for the celtics/wolves game.

wow. rose looked like a monster out there, i even raved about his play.

BUT, he was a -20.6 in net rtg.

there was alot of complaining about teague and wiggs, but teague had the highest off rtg and wiggs the 3rd.

Only saric was worse in offensive net rtg. I actually didnt think Saric was all that bad either.

Dieng looked like he had a helluva game, too bad he only got 10 minutes.

I also thought that KAT wasn't that bad out there, but the numbers tell me Im wrong again.

https://stats.nba.com/game/0021800335/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1